[vijai]

Hello,
Pretty new here and thought why not befriend few gearheads with a little ownership/initial review thread. I'd keep it simple yet informative as possible. Please do pour in your suggestions if there is any room for improvement.

My history:
2010-2011: P180 (My brother's which was given to me)
2011-2018: P150
2018-2020: Apache rtr 160
Present: Apache rtr 200 4v fi BS6.

The choice:
This is my first ever bike purchase on my own with my very own money and I wanted something powerful yet good enough for a commuter with comfortable riding posture. I had not many choices in mind. I had been eyeing at either a FZ25 or RTR 200. Though I have a long-standing relation with Pulsar, I never liked their design recently. It's neither classic design nor modern now. I wanted something fresh to try.

I have been riding my friend's RTR 160 for a year now and I absolutely loved its driving posture and low compact profile. One thing I hated about it is the infamous vibration at mid RPM. Damn, it feels like having a huge vibrator below the seat and in handlebars.

I decided to buy a new bike in October and was waiting to see what the market is to offer in the future and there were the leaks of new RTR 200. Immediately fell for it and wanted to buy the BS6 when it releases. Comes the December last week and started calling Dealership 1 since they seem to be the biggest dealer in Chennai. Just to my disappointment, they had no idea of the bike. Filled up the form in TVS website expecting someone would call me. I was wrong! The only calls I received were for financing for a bike which hasn't released yet with no information on what finance options I would get.

I decided to hold back and wait until it has become a common find. Surprisingly on Jan 2 days before Pongal, received a call from Dealership 2, selayur saying they have RTR 200 BS6 ready on stock and I could come to test drive any time. Off I fly the next day to test drive it.

The Test Drive:
By this time, I have dropped the idea of FZ25 and just want to check a few things on RTR:
1. Vibration on mid RPM
2. Riding posture
3. Handling and heaviness
4. ABS performance (More like I wanted to see how it works since this will be my first ABS bike)
5. The hyped gimmicks like RTT, TVS connect app (This requires a separate post on itself!)

Arrived at the showroom for a test drive and I was given a black color bike with just 2km on the ODO. They filled about 2liters of petrol in front of me, started it and revved it till the red bar for full 10seconds! My heart broke nevertheless, not my bike nor can I intervene. I was handed over the bike and asked them to run through the features. All I received was "Sir, whatever you saw on the website is there". I was wondering if I'm being trolled or something. On insisting to show how those worked, I was told this is new bike and first batch in the city and staff training was yet to happen and as such, they have no idea about how things work. Disappointed! Drove the bike and was pretty convinced except few minor quirks. Decided to book it.

The Booking:
The booking experience was 7/10 at the dealership. Dealership 2, Selayur was quite afar from my place and I was worried about it. Told the same to the sales exec and he told: "No problem sir, we would deliver it at your home". Didn't take it much seriously and it's a normal sales exec's speech. Was asked to pay ₹1000 advance and told the bike would be ready for delivery the weekend but my dad instead on taking the delivery on 21st for various auspicious reasons and we left the dealership. Meanwhile, I started digging into different costs mentioned in the quotation. Few shocking things but nothing surprising:
1. Almost ₹10k for the insurance
2. 11k odd for registration.

I immediately knew they have hidden the infamous handling costs into this. I knew I had to confront this although I wasn't going to make it an issue.

Also, wanted Pirelli tyres but seems like these people doesn't even know such an option exists. I'm not sure if Pirelli tyre option would be at additional cost.

The delivery:
The delivery experience was -10/10 (Note the minus!). Thanks to Dealership 2 (There is nothing brilliant about them) I was almost at the verge of canceling the booking and going back. Little did I know it was to get worse. Until I started talking about the hidden charges, everyone was sweeeeet. I had an employee discount voucher too but didn't reveal it yet since I wanted to first know what they are up to. Asked why a no dep, comprehensive insurance is cheap online but they almost charge 50%, they told it's a new bike a nobody gives insurance other than the dealer. Showed them policybazaar app. The first sign of irritation in their face. Next comes the registration cost. Didn't poke much into it and wanted to try my other luck. Told I do not want to take insurance from the dealer and would buy it myself. Immediate reaction was "Sir, it is not possible. It is Govt rule that only we do the insurance and registration". There she get's up and says will be back. She came back told her not to play the govt rule tricks and I knew I'm paying the premium for nothing. Pretty sure it irked her.

This was the time I told, I have employee discount code and would have to be checked for me. She was having a poker face by now and told until I pay the total on-road amount (₹1,50,027), she will not be able to invoice it. I told, I dont want the invoice but to just check the discount and am willing to pay ₹1,44,000 apart from the ₹1000 booking amount. With little dissatisfaction, she agreed, put in the code and it showed ₹5080 discount. It brought the total price to ₹1,44,947. Told I will take the bike immediately and will bring it for registration myself. Was told to come 2 days later to sign the papers for registration.

I hoped the heartbreaks would end there. But, it was to continue. The bike was brought down and was given the key in the most covert way possible. Went out to see it. There was a black bike covered in 2inches of dust. Asked is this how a bike is delivered? They didn't even apologize and said there is no salesperson to deliver it properly (Why the darn would they agree for a delivery then?). I showed first sign of anger and the bike was about to be wiped off with a normal banian cloth (wth!). Interrupted and told I need it how a new bike would look or I wouldn't care to go to any extreme to get the money back. At this point, I had told them the emp code came from a high profile employee (which is true partially. He was a past high profile employee who took code from his colleague for me) and I could seriously escalate such worst behaviors. There goes the bike in and in a few minutes, came out nice and shiny. They told the owner's manual, toolkit and first aid kit would be given when I come for signing the docs for registration. They didnt give the free helmet until I demanded. Nevertheless, it was a cheap-looking Studds rebranded helmet. Not sure if that's the standard or another conning from them.

Here is the photo on delivery.


The registration Process:
Next day after delivery, I called them and told I would be booking a number myself and they need not proceed with the ongoing number series. They told they could get one for me for ₹3500 (LOL!) which only costs ₹2000 at the RTO. Politely refused and asked them to send me the application receipt to help me book the number along with the insurance. Was promised will be sent by afternoon. Didn't happen and with many follow-ups was sent around 5:30pm only to find the vehicle chassis number was wrong. Informed the person to change it and again with follow ups was sent by 6:30pm except insurance. Insurance had the address wrong too. Next day followed up for the insurance and nothing happened.

It was time for signing the document for registration. Told them to look into insurance and they asked me if I could go to RTO myself and do the registration myself stating my RTO was far away. This got my nerves and told them "You promised bike delivery at doorstep when I was worried about the distance and now you say you cannot come to register it?". They agreed to come. Fast forward a week, on registration day, A person from Dealership 2 came, handed over the papers to an agent and he finished my bike inspection. Still no insurance update.

Called up again and another heated speech. Was promised insurance by EOD. There comes another shoker! I was sent a MS word document which has all my details typed out with the correct chassis number! I would call this a fraud. Why? I went to the insurer's website, entered the policy number, received a copy and it still had the old chassis number! If I wasn't vigilant enough, I would still be driving a bike with a Fake insurance! Phone call time again and again heated speech.

Fast forward another week, HSRP is ready for installation. I knew it was time to deal with insurance. Went in on a Saturday, caught the same lady who was talking about the "Govt. rule" thing. Told her straight on the face "I paid you almost double for the insurance and your people would just cheat with a word document with all faked data? I even wonder if you have even procured insurance or just took the money away". And yes, I did speak as if I didn't pull the copy from the insurer's website. This took her aback, questioned the person responsible for it and assured I would get with everything corrected in 2 weeks. Outside, there was a chap who was admiring my new machine which I was confused about if I should be happy about to own or repent for having received a pathetic customer experience. Went to my bike and he asked me details about it. Told he's interested and wanted to know how the bike is. Told bike is good but don't buy it here unless you are so trouble-free in life and expect some trouble to keep you entertained. He laughed, congratulated and complimented about my new machine and left.

Need not mention, not done until today except the chassis number endorsement. I take the address a bit light and not forcing them to do it. Raised a complaint directly with the insurer to get it updated.

P.S: Initially had mentioned the dealership names but removed since I do not want to sound like this being another rant thread. Want it to be my experience thread.

[vijai]

The likes:
1. Minimalistic decals and stickers yet striking enough
2. A unique looking eyebrow like DRLs (many liked it and few felt "Ewww")
3. Naked design (I do not want fairing unless its a sportbike)
4. TVS low-cost maintenance
5. GTT (Glide through traffic) mode
6. In-console navigation
7. Powerful high beam LED
8. Enough power for city commute yet not weak enough for inter-city highway drives
9. No vibration on mid RPMs! Finally got rid of the under-seat vibrator
10. The exhaust note
11. Good handling

The dislikes:
1. Plastic! There is literally no metal outside. Just plastic everywhere including the tank. Prone to scratches at level 2 and deeper groves at level 3.
2. No engine temp indicator
3. No turn signal auto-cut off. Duh! TVS, it's 2020!
4. No side stand engine cut off (Not a major thing)
5. TVS Connect app. A right step forward but a disaster in execution. Well, I could only thank myself for not having fallen for this bike just for this one little thing. This has been their primary marketting though.
6. Side stand leans the bike too much towards right.
7. Heavier than I expected.
8. Fell the rear view mirrors are not right sized. By the looks of it, it seems like the same one on a ntorq.
9. No ladies footrest! Was told its not even an optional accessory. My mom gave me a sigh when I told her this.
10. Rear disk brake could have more bite to it.
11. Exhaust note. I know it was mentioned in likes too. But the sound though is still masculine and has a bass to it, it has a tinge of the Duke's exhaust note.
12. High beam LED. Though its powerful enough, I don't use it at all since it can quickly become inconvenient for the oncoming vehicle. It's actually blinding bright.

Initial Impression:
Since it was a break-in period, couldn't get the right power out of the machine. Was driving at max 60Kmph and varying gears between 3-5k rpm. Initial stiffness went away around 400Km and it was so very obvious while riding. It could do 60 comfortably and I was always above 50 even before I could realize it. Never in the break-in did I cross 60. If an overtake demanded I rev hard or go beyond 60, I skip it and let the vehicles go past me. Fueled at shell, v-power petrol from day 1 and it feels agile.

580Km reached and I decided it was time to for the 1st service. I also decided to test the mileage. Drove until the fuel lights came up, noted the KM reading and since I knew how much fuel has gone in so far and how much was left, made a quick math and it was 37Kmpl! Impressive though will go down when the break-in done :P. In the meanwhile, while a regular clean up of the bike, I noticed the console was showing a black line when being wiped gently with a microfiber cloth.

The line:


The over all driving experience for me was quite comfortable but, the seat is still not up to the mark though TVS claims they have made it better. First time owning an ABS bike, damn the ratcheting of the lever is pretty hard and initially I would just take my leg away thinking something has gone bad. It took a long time to convince it was normal. But the noise it makes is pretty heavy too. Also ABS comes in way too often IMO. Good in a way, no lock ups even in low speed on a sandy road too. Developed swirl marks on the paint pretty quick but enough reading of T-BHP gave me the strength to not care about it. 3m wax every week now to make it less worse.

First service experience:
The odo clocked 601.4Km and gave the bike for service at Ramkay, Adyar.
Following complaints were made:
1. Side stand causing too much lean
2. Chain noise and engine cut off after a minute in cold start condition
3. Back brake making too much noise.
4. Weak console and blackout rarely in hot sun.

Everything was smooth until I mentioned the last point. The person preparing the job sheet called the service advisor, he had a look and confirmed its a defect but denied to mention it in the job card saying they haven't seen BS6 rtr200 before, its a new console and they wont get stock anytime soon. For this, I will have to approach my purchase dealer. When I insisted to at least mention it in their job card so its recorded, he got a bit rough and told they wont do it and I can take the bike to the dealer first, correct the console then do the service. Gave the bike for service alone and in the meanwhile contacted TVS customer support, informed the issue. Informed my friend who is a past TVS employee who seemed more infuriated than me for the QC and immediately called some top head and informed the case. Got call back in 5mins, he received all details incl. chassis number from me and told he'll get back soon and need not worry.

The bike went in on a Saturday and told I cant have it before Monday for which I agreed. Monday around 11:30am received a call stating bike is ready for delivery and bill amount is ₹783. Went to ASC around 1pm, paid the bill. Engine oil filter (₹40), Engine oil(₹700) was changed and consumables was billed (₹43, not sure what these are). In 15 mins, the bike was brought down and it felt like the woes are not going to end. The bike was water washed, left in the sun which developed nice bright white water marks on a black colored bike. It was despite them wiping it with the polish oil (the white oil thing which I hate). Immediately called the person since he quickly read out the job sheet of the work done and left before I could inspect (probably it was lunchtime and he was hungry) and asked if he thinks the bike is good for delivery. He was confused and told yes. Showed him all the white spots and showed him the photo of the bike I took the day I left it for service. He went in and asked someone to wipe it. The young chap who was so disinterested with his job, lethargic in his work brought a soiled worn out dry microfiber cloth to wipe. Obviously, no spots is going. Immediately, he moved in quietly without any word. But I'm not taking the delivery where the bike is worse in looks than how it went in. Complained again, the service advisor with a rough voice told the chap "What is this?" he told, "It's not going". SA replied "You are here for this one job. Do it properly". I intervened and told I'd take care of it myself just give a cloth. He then went in, brought a damp cloth, wiped it. Definitely not good but it did get a lot better.

Took the bike for a test spin also the first ever high rev ride. The bike has opened up really well, great satisfactory work on the inner work though the outer wasn't. The mechanic's work immediately masked the delivery mishap. I felt the clutch was at full clutch and was impacting the GTT and the back brake was still making hell of a screeching noise. Got back, called the mechanic (he was in his 40s probably) and told him "Anna can you adjust the clutch please" which he promptly did once I told him the reason to make it stock like. Asked about back brake and he told the pads are cleaned and sanded. Would take some time for it to bed in. Convinced and took it out.

Little back story: When I was waiting in, there was another SA with whom I grew conversation and one thing intrigued me. He told, 2020 RTR 160s were sent to them but were immediately taken back by TVS. I asked him why and he said no idea I guess there was some issue with the lot. Asked what about 200 and he told 200 hasn't come out yet

[vijai]

As I told, TVS Connect required a post in itself.

One-liner for who is interested to get the bike just for this: Don't! You are bound to be gravely disappointed!

Let me say what works first:
1. Connection is seamless although at start of bike sometimes you have initiate the connection manually.
2. Km reading of the trips (bull's eye with the odo)
3. Navigation. Not exceptional but works when it does
4. Call and sms notification.
5. Data are stored on TVS server. So no problem with replacing the phone, reinstalling app unless you explicitly clear the ride stats in-app.

The bad parts:
Navigation:
One thing that helps me a lot is navigation. I do not have to have a handle bar mount any more which is a distraction IMO or take a look at my smart watch for the next turn anymore. Convenient right! Yes. But only when it works. Most of the time, the app goes into background and looses location as soon as display goes off. What happens then? it's stuck at the last turn for the rest of the ride. Not to mention, they use MapMyIndia with many outdated places/No new place added unlike Google Maps. But, I totally understand Google maps pricing has gone insane and it's impossible for TVS to gulp it.

This is how I travelled for the next 12Km


Ride stats:
The ads all claimed how you can be a "pro" rider by analyzing the ride stats post ride. Seems like I'm pro than THE BEST rider one can find! I mean, who can drive at 16 in N gear, 282Kmph in 1st and 754Kmph in 2nd on a puny 200cc bike? And believe me, you don't wanna see the RPM vs gear graph. Because I can do 12k RPM on N gear or sometimes 21k on 2nd!



Dashboard:
Yeah I rode 1209km in less than a month of ownership in 103 rides! Both the ride count and total Km is wrong. Total Km is almost double and rides count are off by 20 as of writing.


Trip ending:
Believe me, as much as you don't want to turn the bike off, the app isn't going to let you end your trip either
Press yes and you'd be still on the same screen many times. Force close the app, bye-bye stats.


Last service:
Time travel anyone?


Now, I contacted TVS about the mess and told them I can be a lab rat for them to fine tune it since I see much potential in the app. Even mentioned them I have been an app dev and custom rom dev (in the past) in a not so head heavy way or show off (my interest was genuine - to get this to work as it should for me). All I received at the end was a generic reply and a phone call to ask me reset the app, turn off battery saver (which is off all the time for me but still he wasn't ready to hear). Read all the FAQs and troubleshoot and told it will work now. I hoped so too! Dropped the idea of helping them and decided to live with how it has to be.

The navigation was fixed off late with disabling battery optimisation for the app and adjusted Low Memory Killer in the kernel to let the app live longer but one can't expect everyone to do so. At the end of the day, they are an automobile company and can't expect quality from a totally different domain.

[vijai]

Phew, finally, my impressions are done and here is my questions, suggestions to be heard from the community:
1. Where can I get a low cost yet effective PPF done in Chennai? Along with contact and cost would be great
2. How good is 3M's all-purpose cleaner on an all-plastic bike? Also their liquid wax.
3. What would be the right gear shift speed & rpm for each gear for this bike?
4. I hear a lot of noise from the rear brake even after 3 days since service. Would it fade away?
5. Is it normal for the ABS brake's pedal to ratchet so hard with loud thuds when braking hard?

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Motorcycle Section. Thanks for sharing!

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by vijai

Phew, finally, my impressions are done and here is my questions, suggestions to be heard from the community:
1. Where can I get a low cost yet effective PPF done in Chennai? Along with contact and cost would be great
2. How good is 3M's all-purpose cleaner on an all-plastic bike? Also their liquid wax.
3. What would be the right gear shift speed & rpm for each gear for this bike?
4. I hear a lot of noise from the rear brake even after 3 days since service. Would it fade away?
5. Is it normal for the ABS brake's pedal to ratchet so hard with loud thuds when braking hard?

1. There is no such thing as a 'low cost but effective' PPF. Standard pricing is around 550 / Sqft for the normal PPF and Rs 850 / Sq feet for self healing.

You could negotiate it down by 75-100 / sq feet but that is assuming you are doing it for a full car (total billing will be 1 lakh +, and thus they will negotiate)

For a bike, you are looking primarily at the fuel tank, the area below the seats and possible the mudguards? This should set you back by Rs 4-5k total.

I would recommend Detailing Mafia Anna Nagar, have had my cars and a bunch of other cars I have recommended done there and they do a good job.

2. Use regular vehicle shampoo (3m, Meguiar etc it doesn't matter) for the body, any standard wax application manually every month or so should do the trick. PPF will be a bonus.

Do get the Motul chain lube and cleaner though, this is key. Use this weekly (esp in our conditions, imperative even). You could get it online or Shell stores stock it.

4. IMO no, bedding in period would hold but there should be no loud or indeed any kind of noise - check for dirt in your discs.

[Motard_Blr]

Congrats on your new bike! I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with the dealer.

Please describe the "glide through traffic" feature. It's the only novel feature this bike has compared to its competitors and I'm very curious about it.

[aveemashfaq]

Hi,



I am an owner of 2019 TVS Apache RTR 200 4V Race Edition (love the long name of my bike). Saree guard foot rest is not available for Apache RTR 200 even as an accessory. But the saree guard foot rest of Apache 160 works just fine. I have bugged my TVS dealer for it and he got me post delivery (I suspect he just took out one from 160 and gave it to me as an accessory). He charged 300 for it. If the TVS dealers don't, you can always go for P220 saree guard extensions which is easily available for 220rs and get it fitted. You would need a long bolt with washers from an automobile spare shop but it is easy to get it fitted.

[vijai]

Originally Posted by Stribog

1. There is no such thing as a 'low cost but effective' PPF. Standard pricing is around 550 / Sqft for the normal PPF and Rs 850 / Sq feet for self healing.

Thanks a lot for answering most of the questions!
I polish my bike with 3m liquid wax every weekend (love the shine). But never have I used the chain lube and clean. Is that like wD40? One spray for both cleaning and lubricating?

As for PPF, I'd go there and check it out next time I go towards Anna Nagar for sure. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Congrats on your new bike! I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with the dealer.

GTT is where you can glide through traffic without use of acceleration. It's kind of like having a high idle and releasing the clutch but now, its all controlled by the ECU. You just slot in first gear, release clutch slowly as the bike moves without opening the throttle and with full clutch released, the speeds are as follows:
1st Gear: 7Kmph
2nd Gear: 17Kmph
3rd geat: 27Kmph

Although it feels quite useful in traffic conditions, I do not use them if I have to glide for long-distance since it's so obvious that I'm going under-rev (do not know the correct term)

Originally Posted by aveemashfaq

I am an owner of 2019 TVS Apache RTR 200 4V Race Edition (love the long name of my bike). Saree guard foot rest is not available for Apache RTR 200 even as an accessory.

Thanks, I'd ask the dealer next time I visit them.

[Stribog]

These are special compounds for chains. You first use the cleaner and then lube it up. Helps keep things in ship shop shape.

[Shumi_21]

Originally Posted by vijai

3. What would be the right gear shift speed & rpm for each gear for this bike?
4. I hear a lot of noise from the rear brake even after 3 days since service. Would it fade away?
5. Is it normal for the ABS brake's pedal to ratchet so hard with loud thuds when braking hard?

Hi Vijai! Congratulations on your new Apache. It's one of the best bikes in the <250cc segment and easily the best sounding by a mile! I also love the rider's triangle on the 200, TVS have got it perfect! I'm taking the liberty to try and answer your questions:

3. The "right" RPM to shift gears varies from rider to rider. Ideally the correct RPM to upshift is in the powerband of your motorcycle. For example, on my Suzuki Gixxer, the peak torque comes in at 6000rpm and peak power at 8000rpm. Hence, I upshift between 6k-8k RPM. People obsessed with fuel economy shift as early as 3000rpm. Upshifting at higher RPM's will also give you harder engine braking. For example, upshifting to 3rd from 2nd at 50km/hr will give you higher engine braking when you let go of the throttle compared to shifting to 6th from 5th at 50km/hr. So it's totally upto you, depending on how much acceleration and engine braking you like. I suggest trying shifting at different points in your bike's powerband and see what feels best to you. Refer to your manual for the peak torque and power RPM's.

4. The service centre guys may have been a tad overenthusiastic with the cleaning and some moisture may have been stuck in between the disc and the pad. It should go away in a couple of days of regular riding.

5. Any ABS equipped motorcycle's brake pedals/lever will "pulsate" when the ABS kicks in. It's just the ABS doing it's job and I wouldn't read much into it.

[fhdowntheline]

Just the thread I am looking for as I try to overcome the dilemma I posted in another post. The Apache is high on my wishlist.

[Asish_VK]

Nice and crisp review

Congratulations for the new bike. Ride safe and enjoy he to the full potential

By the way. Your review is incomplete without proper photos . Please add some nice photographs of the bike.

[vijai]

Originally Posted by Shumi_21

5. Any ABS equipped motorcycle's brake pedals/lever will "pulsate" when the ABS kicks in. It's just the ABS doing it's job and I wouldn't read much into it.

Thanks a lot Shumi! I know the ABS pulsates but I feel something like the brake pedal being floored. Just like it would feel when the side stand is pressed against the road at mid speeds. May be it's just a feeling but it really is so odd to me.

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Just the thread I am looking for as I try to overcome the dilemma I posted in another post. The Apache is high on my wishlist.

It sure is a good bike! Try it yourself with a TR first. Also my two cents would be to wait and take it after few months if you decide on apache 200. Quite a lot of quirks with dealership, parts availability and heard apache 160 was taken off the shelves once already because of some unknown issue.

Originally Posted by Asish_VK

Nice and crisp review

I know! But I'm just too bad at photos and seems like my bike is photo shy! But as soon as I keep collecting good photos, I'd post it.

[yesyeswe]

Originally Posted by vijai

Prone to scratches at level 2 and deeper groves at level 3.
yet

Zack wants to know your location, and he would be testing at level 6 and level 7!
Congratulations for the bike, although a pulsar fan i was always impressed by the matte paint and styling of the apache bikes, when 200 was launched with the optional pirelli tyres, fuel injection and dual channel ABS i was sold, i wished bajaj also provided something like that. And i love the exhaust note too, best in the market