[Red Liner]

We went out for a small little routine trail ride a week back, which quickly degenerated into a fail of epic proportions for moi.

https://youtu.be/8Grtj7xf8YM

[ast.ggn]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

We went out for a small little routine trail ride a week back, which quickly degenerated into a fail of epic proportions for moi

I could see a xpulse passing by towards the end. How well did it do on this trail? Doesn't seem to be a part of your group though.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

I could see a xpulse passing by towards the end. How well did it do on this trail? Doesn't seem to be a part of your group though.

Not a part of the group, we met the dude there. He chose the right line and the bike did the rest, no drama.

But what is YouTube without a bit of drama though?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

We went out for a small little routine trail ride a week back, which quickly degenerated into a fail of epic proportions for moi.

I see a lot of wheel spinning and clutch slipping.

Is it just me or does anyone else get that DeJaVu feeling of having someone explain in detail about engine configuration and its impact on torque transfer to the rear wheel and resulting impact on traction, and then that someone was advised by a couple of YouTube enthusiasts that he lacks 'Clutch Control' because he said maneuvering a short stroke up a trail involves a lot of...oh, what was it?....wheel spinning and clutch slipping!

Jokes apart, glad to see that you guys are having fun, try complementing with momentum cause starting from a standstill on a short stroke is simply futile, you either dig yourself a new rut or you burn your clutch clean off, though momentum is scarce on tricky terrain you could come up with an action plan that actually helps.

Also if interested there is a clutch mod that would be of help if you intend to hit the trails quite often. Getting rid of this spring;



1. Makes the clutch lighter.
2. Gives you precise feedback when it comes to engagement and disengagement.
3. Gives you an idea about clutch wear and tear i.e while riding itself you'll be able to judge how much life you have remaining on the clutch.

Also I'd suggest getting a regular clutch lever instead of the adjustable one as it has a very noticeable impact on feedback, personally an adjustable clutch lever has never made sense and Suzuki agrees as they only provide adjustable brake levers on their VStroms.

Anyhow do keep us posted.

Ride Safe,
A.P.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I see a lot of wheel spinning and clutch slipping.

Is it just me or does anyone else get that DeJaVu feeling of

I just chose the wrong line after taking the GS up on the right line. And i kept going on the right in the rut even after getting out the first time. Dont ask me why. Dehydration, plus heat, plus heavy motorcycling gear makes you do strange things. I could have reduced the tyre pressure too. Better tyres would have done...well better. The tyres that come stock are not really good for such trails.

This was 100% rider error all throughout and has very little to do with the bike. Not a single other KTM 390 Adventure which chose the right line with the right momentum had an issue. It was just me. With momentum from the bottom, i would have skimmed through the entire thing. Would have made a boring video though

That spring though. Why is it there in the first place? I remember having taken it off on my Versys too.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

That spring though. Why is it there in the first place? I remember having taken it off on my Versys too.

It is there to idiot-proof the system from someone setting improper clutch cable slack.

Under load the clutch lifter/release bearing is pushed out causing the clutch cable to tension and if at that time there is not enough slack then the clutch would start slipping and wearing down prematurely or if lucky the clutch cable would just snap.

So basically if commonsense is applied then the spring becomes redundant and counter productive hence why we remove it.

P.S. Older motorcycles do not come with one from factory.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I just chose the wrong line after taking the GS up on the right line. And i kept going on the right in the rut even after getting out the first time. Dont ask me why. Dehydration, plus heat, plus heavy motorcycling gear makes you do strange things. I could have reduced the tyre pressure too. Better tyres would have done...well better. The tyres that come stock are not really good for such trails.

This was 100% rider error all throughout and has very little to do with the bike. Not a single other KTM 390 Adventure which chose the right line with the right momentum had an issue. It was just me. With momentum from the bottom, i would have skimmed through the entire thing. Would have made a boring video though

That spring though. Why is it there in the first place? I remember having taken it off on my Versys too.

First: I love your videos! Off-road biking is still so rare in India.

Second: from the videos I can tell that your bikes are geared too high for that sort of terrain. The stock gearing is designed for good on-road performance since that's where these bikes will spend 99% of the time. I don't know about the BMW but the KTM is known to have dull low end as the engine is the same as that in the Duke 390.

Lower gearing will help avoid slipping the clutch. This has 2 benefits: obviously, saving the clutch and, less obviously, being able to concentrate less on the clutch and more on the bike handling helping you cross the terrain more easily.

You are already aware of the tyres tread not being suited to the terrain.

Your experience would be greatly better with lower gearing. Maybe 3 teeth more on the rear sprocket or 1 less on the front. I don't know what's available for the KTM but if you stick to locally available parts then the costs would be low.

I look forward to more of your videos.
Good luck!

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

First: I love your videos! Off-road biking is still so rare in India.

You are already aware of the tyres tread not being suited to the terrain.

Your experience would be greatly better with lower gearing. Maybe 3 teeth more on the rear sprocket or 1 less on the front. I don't know what's available for the KTM but if you stick to locally available parts then the costs would be low.

I look forward to more of your videos.
Good luck!

Thanks Motard. I do appreciate the kind words. These videos I felt were more to allow us to learn from our own mistakes by watching them later, as well as serving as a memory of fun times a few years down the line.

Tyres are definitely on the anvil atleast for the monsoons. Unfortunately only Timsuns available for the sizes we need.

I have already dropped the front sprocket one down from 15 to 14. It was just the line i took... I took a stock gs310 up there with no problems. Its quite insane i struggled with a 390 adventure on the same trail just minutes apart.

[Red Liner]

Acerbis First Copy hand guards and clearances. Second set are barkbusters from another bike.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I have already dropped the front sprocket one down from 15 to 14.

How much difference has this made? I saw a YouTuber going gaga with the low end behaviour after this. Is it that significant?

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

How much difference has this made? I saw a YouTuber going gaga with the low end behaviour after this. Is it that significant?

Yes, it is very significant. In gear acceleration is just awesome, puts a smile on your face. Its fairly routine to do this switch, one tooth down in the front or three tooth more in the rear and you have moved the power band lower and sacrifice some top end.

I have done 2000 odd kms already on the newer sprocket

[Funny]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Yes, it is very significant. In gear acceleration is just awesome, puts a smile on your face. Its fairly routine to do this switch, one tooth down in the front or three tooth more in the rear and you have moved the power band lower and sacrifice some top end.

I was just wondering, what would be the outcome if both the changes are done together. That is, we change front to 14T and rear to rear+3T together, will that result in superb low end or a disaster?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Acerbis First Copy hand guards and clearances.

Same Pinch!

I've been using these on the CT100B for the past 3 years, have bent handlebars but the guard still remains the same, so does my stock levers.

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

How much difference has this made? I saw a YouTuber going gaga with the low end behaviour after this. Is it that significant?

Proceed with a pinch of salt as there is no torque or power to be made here. Only difference is gearing i.e in Redliner's case he has shortened his gearing i.e his engine has to turn more number of times to turn the rear wheel compared to stock i,e same speed at higher RPM i.e closer to power band i.e what is giving him the feeling of more torque.

So in short he has sacrificed relative throttle and clutch control and made his motorcycle put some more oomph at the rear wheel, not always good cause with the above mentioned reduced control he has also made his motorcycle more wheel spin friendly on loose tricky terrains.

It has its advantages as well, but personally I'd suggest proper research be done before playing with gearing.

In which case Gearing Commander is your friend.

P.S. In the spirit of full disclosure I'm running +1 Teeth at front on my CT100B, i.e the opposite of what Redliner has done, if I recall right it was his suggestion. Again it also has its own compromises, have gone for shorter gearing as well in the past i.e +4 Teeth at Rear on my P220, so you can take my word for it that the stock ratio is always the best ratio for someone who'd be covering a larger distance.

Originally Posted by Funny

I was just wondering, what would be the outcome if both the changes are done together. That is, we change front to 14T and rear to rear+3T together, will that result in superb low end or a disaster?

Here are simulations for comparison, Cruising Speed(Peak Torque) is 7250RPM's and Top Speed(Peak Power) is 9500RPM's.

15/45


14/45


14/48


Regards,
A.P.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Same Pinch!
...

Proceed with a pinch of salt as there is no torque or power to be made here. Only difference is gearing i.e in Redliner's case he has shortened his gearing i.e his engine has to turn more number of times to turn the rear wheel compared to stock i,e same speed at higher RPM i.e closer to power band i.e what is giving him the feeling of more torque.

...
Regards,
A.P.

Ashwin,

You are partially correct in that there is no increase in torque. To be specific, there is no increase in engine torque. But changing the gearing in any way (inside the gearbox or the chain sprockets) does affect wheel power.

So shortening the gearing does increase wheel power at lower speeds as the engine is running faster and more power is made as the engine rpm increases. The added power at lower speeds increases acceleration.

Conversely, increasing the gearing for higher top speed may not work because engine rpm decreases for the same speed and there is less power at lower speeds. This is why many vehicles with over driven top gears achieve top speed in 1 gear lower.

[camitesh]

Interesting discussion on Sprockets, took me back a decade or so when I first learn about this.

From personal experience, I did try my hands on changing front sprockets of my Yamaha FZ16 and could feel the difference in the way the power was transferred to the rear wheels although there wasn't any substantial power to begin with at 14 odd BHP. I upgraded from 14T stock to 15T front sprocket for my touring needs at the loss of some initial torque and much relaxed cruising at 80-90 kmph while touring.

After using this setup for months, I switched back to the stock setup and wondered why I went to the 15T setup in the first place as I was missing out on all that initial torque FZ16 was known for. I even searched for 13T stock sprocket replacement to access more torque down the rev range but couldn't find any. There was an option to use the larger rear sprocket from Yamaha R15 which was pretty expensive back then and I could never try that. Maybe, I can explore this upgrade now.

On this topic, some excerpts from a related Xbhp thread:

Sprocketing, in general sense, means changing the front & rear sprocket sizes to affect gearing. It's one of the simplest and easiest mods. The basic info says that:-->

1. Bigger rear sprocket or smaller front sprocket, results in gearing biased towards acceleration, with some lag in top speed.
2. Smaller rear sprocket or bigger front sprocket, results in gearing biased towards top speed, with some lag in acceleration.

Gearing does NOT result in more or less power. It only affects how the power is laid, by changing the balance between top speed and acceleration. So, if one wants more top speed, and is prepared to lose acceleration a bit, or vice versa, then sprocketing is advisable.

Taller gearing results in better highway mileage, and short gearing results in less highway mileage. This is due to the fact, that in longer gearing, the machine travels longer distance for a particular engine speed (rpm), and vice versa.

Knowing the power and torque that this beautiful KTM 390 engine makes, I'm looking forward to more real life experiences due to this simple sprocket change experiment. Cheers!