[Abhi_Automobile]

The only bike focused website somewhat relevant today is PowerDrift, which although also has car content, majors in bike reviews. But, it’s not new (as of today), and is more video focused!

GTO’s point about traction is interesting - but, how do we explain the popularity of so called Youtuber biker junta etc. - mostly on whom are honestly substandard!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

GTO’s point about traction is interesting - but, how do we explain the popularity of so called Youtuber biker junta etc. - mostly on whom are honestly substandard!

Gaining popularity on an existing large platform like YouTube, Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp groups is a different matter.

What I am talking about is an independent or new website coming up and becoming prominent. Can't really think of any that have managed this in the last 5 years. The top 10 today are the same names that were big 5 years or 10 years ago.

[Motard_Blr]

In India, cars are aspirational products. Buying one announces to the world that you have moved up in social class. This goes at all levels of society: scooter user would like a hatchback. Hatchback owner to sedan or mini SUV and so on.

Bikes in India are seen as necessities. Even if you buy a Ducati, people who have no idea of what that is would ask if you're crazy to spend so much money on a bike.

Only in developed, rich countries are bikes recreational. Owning or using one announces that you follow a certain lifestyle (young or young at heart, risk taker, freedom lover, etc.) and that you have enough time and money to spend on recreation. For men, this might be considered a masculine activity.

People don't generally passionately discuss public transport or other mundane things on forums. Same goes for two wheelers in India. These things are simply not that interesting to people in those societies.

As a result of the lack of interest in expensive, aspirational bikes in India, we still buy bike that have barely changed in the last decade. Pulsar, Unicorn, etc. All these bikes are largely the same, with some improvements (ABS, fuel injection), mostly due to legislation. This is why bike manufacturers don't invest in new models with the latest and greatest technology - the market for those bikes is just too small. Of that small market, only a minority are interested in participating in online forums.

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by GTO

What I am talking about is an independent or new website coming up and becoming prominent. Can't really think of any that have managed this in the last 5 years. The top 10 today are the same names that were big 5 years or 10 years ago.

Reading long and detailed (written) reviews as a habit is dwindling at least in the biker world, and people want short summary reviews spiced up with some nice cinematics and music compressed into a few minutes of footage. That is a trend even popular (old school magazine) publishing houses are now resorting to, and biker vloggers only use that trusted formula again to try and get some attention on youtube for themselves and their earnings, albeit with heavy usage of some clickbait. Someone mentioned that this trend could be something to do with the attention span of youngsters nowadays, and since most bikers are youngsters, I second that view

I have observed that searching the net for bike problems or information on accessories is a lot more fruitful on youtube than on bike forums, at least for the lower budget brands. Biker vloggers are also eager to generate new content and try to make every problem or new observation viral by creating videos of symptoms and the subsequent service centre visits. Naturally the shift of content generation is also towards the easy-to-access, unrestricted channels such as youtube.

Having experienced both sides of the river, one interesting trend that happens with big bikes is - when you buy a big bike or even any enthusiast oriented bikes, generally the sales staff or your biker friends connect you to other owners of the bike/brand and add you to specific whatsapp groups with your contemporaries. I am part of a Ninja 1000 owners' Pan-India group, another one for owners in Bangalore and an Interceptor 650 owners' group, without asking anyone for my admission. When people have queries or want information on accessories or if some problems occur, they usually get posted in the group, advice crops up from peers and the problems get resolved on the group itself, rarely allowing a chance for those topics to come out onto public forums. Now compare the ease of doing this with whatsapp (which everyone readily has all the time) to - signing up for a separate forum, getting membership and then making a conscious effort to install another app / visit a dedicated website and posting there. We BHPians know it is worth the extra effort, but many casual enthusiasts don't feel that way.

Another related aspect and major difference between the car ownership world and bike ownership world in the recent era of say, past 5 years - while a RE showroom would automatically add you to an Interceptor 650 owners' whatsapp group after you purchase one, in the car world a Skoda showroom will not do the same thing for an Octavia TSI owners' group Even if you buy a 5 series, the dealership won't have any 5 series owners' club as such, so car owners tend to exist in silos and are more likely to individually seek out forums for information. The connect is just higher from an initial level itself with bikers, so the information stays within closer circles.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by GTO

Gaining popularity on an existing large platform like YouTube, Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp groups is a different matter.

What I am talking about is an independent or new website coming up and becoming prominent. Can't really think of any that have managed this in the last 5 years. The top 10 today are the same names that were big 5 years or 10 years ago.

I am sorry, but Indian auto journalism is a joke. And now they are circus clowns on YouTube.

I have run a team of creative writers on corporate assignments and I know my grammar. I cringe when I read Indian motorcycle content online.

I have thought about starting an online mag purely on adventure motorcycling, with inspiration from ones doing well abroad, but I don’t think there is much money in it in India. Only click bait crap written by some 18 year old sells.

No offence to the 18 year olds

Edit: here are a few of what a motorcycle dedicated online magazine should look and read like.
https://www.adventurebikerider.com/
https://adventuremotorcycle.com/
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/s...for-beginners/
https://www.advpulse.com/
http://www.brake-magazine.com/
https://overlandmag.com/

[vijai]

I think it's partly because running such forums reauires huge resource. Not just with time to maintain etc but monetarily as these forums grow huge in size in a very short time. To add to the OP, I think though xbhp is huge, I don't find it User friendly at all. The navigation/UI is so confusing and bad. Hence I stuck to team-bhp though t-bhp claims itself to be primarily Car related forum (proved at multiple places).

I always wanted to start a forum for motorcycle exclusively which looks modern, user friendly and well maintained. While I do have knowledge and time to maintain forum, license for xenforo but I'm pretty sure I would run out of my current VPS pretty quick and I wouldn't be able to invest more money without any sponsorship nor am I so good with motorcycle to make the initial content to attract the good, healthy crowd. We all know how much ads pay for and it's totally not viable until the ad is a sponsored one. I don't want to start with all enthusiasm knowing it's not sustainable.

[SmartCat]

Motorcyles are mostly about looks, engine power, braking, ride and handling. That is, it is mostly about the mechanical bits. A typical Activa owner does not care much about these aspects.

Cars have wider appeal in general. That's because in addition to mechanical bits, car purchase involves reading up on -

- Interiors
- Features list
- In-car entertainment
- Front and back seat comfort
- Hatchback, sedan, MPV or SUV?
- Engine options (1.5L petrol or 1.8L diesel?)
- Transmission options (manual, TC or DCT?)

Youtube reviewers can spend 8 mins (of a typical 10 minute video) reviewing a car without moving an inch.

Also, since car purchase involves a large cash outlay, customers tend to do more online research before purchasing. To cater to this demand, we have so many car-specific websites and video logs.

[srini1785]

I guess it all boils down to economics. Motorcycles are cheeper than cars and have a house appliance status. You spend more time researching about a big ticket purchase rather than a smaller value item. I am talking about the cattle class bikes. Forgive the expression.

For bigger motorcycles and for those who are into serious motorcycling (off roading et all), since none of them are actually made in india (barring CKD ones), reviews based on western websites are more attractive to prospective buyers. As far as why car websites are more than motorcycle related forums, even among us here, Jeremy Clarkson is more famous than Guy Martin.

Having said that i don't see why a properly curated website with the right mix of reviews, technical content , promotions, travelogues and life style aspects on motorcycles would not succeed in india. Its just not been attempted correctly.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

TBhps bikers are essentially recreational bikers. These bikers are also by and large Jeepers. Tells you something?

Now that's a revelation. Any data backing up your claim?.

[bigron]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

TBhps bikers are essentially recreational bikers. These bikers are also by and large Jeepers. Tells you something?

Sutripta

Any particular reason for this statement.

The ones I have come across in the last 13 years of my association with this forum and the ones who have been here for close to a decade indulge in regular inter city/inter state touring and bought their bikes because they wanted to tour.

[Motard_Blr]

Here is a video by the very entertaining, informative and no-nonsense Ryan from Fort 9 of YouTube. In this video be explains how motorcycle (or any journalism, in my opinion) journalism works.

https://youtu.be/sgGU3GYx9Qg

On social media such as YouTube or Instagram, at first it's a popularity contest to get the maximum number of subscribers, followers or likes. At some point, the channel or content creator becomes an "influencer", with potential to make money through advertising on their channel or, even better, through endorsements.

I think that when a person or entity becomes an "influencer", they could and should be considered a journalist because of the size of their audience. They then have a professional and moral responsibility to conform to accepted ethics of journalism. But in reality, ethics and ethical behaviour are actively avoided, like people avoid taxes.

I believe that we get what we deserve - if we are happy to consume low quality content or biased content on social media or participate in forums that are not moderated or are biased, then that is what we will get.

Team-BHP is one of the shining stars in Indian social media for the way it's run. The policies are clear, open and applied consistently. Disclosures about expenses or other benefits from manufacturers, are made where necessary. Members are allowed to speak but aggression, harassment and obvious conflicts of interest are called out and action taken against erring members. Team-BHP proves many people do want high quality content, but maybe don't seek it actively.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by srini1785

Now that's a revelation. Any data backing up your claim?.

Hard data? Maybe ihrishi of https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4845591 (CarCloud: I did a sentiment analysis of the Tata Harrier threads) can help.
As an oldtimer (member since 2005) I'm sure you personally know many of the older offroad enthusiasts. If you don't agree, treat my observation as anecdotal.

Originally Posted by bigron

Any particular reason for this statement.

Reason? Just an observation. The (Indian) enthusiast market (for bikes and off roaders) is too small for commercial viability.

Sutripta

[bblost]

There are broadly two types of bikes.

A mass product that is needed for commuting. No one cares what the bike is as long as it looks decent and has good reputation. They buy the bike, take it home.
The only people who advice are close relatives and neighbhors.

Identity bikes. These are the Enfields and KTM's. The people who buy them search for like minded people on Facebook. They find a group and discuss the the bike. The facebook group is dedicated to the bike or manufacturer. Almost always there is a Whatsapp group.

An online forum is simply too much overkill and lost relevance.

The forums like ours have been around so long that its a melting pot and there is always something for someone.

[Sheel]

Have seen xbhp from its early days, in-fact most other 2 wheeler specific groups / channels evolved from there. And xbhp is still...says a lot about how is it run.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Edit: here are a few of what a motorcycle dedicated online magazine should look and read like.

Could you please suggest something for us street / sports bike enthusiasts?

Originally Posted by KarthikK

Having experienced both sides of the river, one interesting trend that happens with big bikes is - when you buy a big bike or even any enthusiast oriented bikes, generally the sales staff or your biker friends connect you to other owners of the bike/brand and add you to specific whatsapp groups with your contemporaries.

This is one reason. And the group, its members specialize in the said motorcycle / brand, hence most queries get resolved there and then leaving no window for that [however good / interesting / quirky] issue to come up on main forums depriving other enthusiasts.

Even for route queries etc, most riders depend on that particular group, so that issue too gets resolved there.

The more younger guys and a significant percentage of them believe in putting up videos of their rides by a Go-Pro, that is their only motive. At a very small place like mine, they have a fancy set-up, but a look at their riding gears is enough hint to know their priorities, nothing wrong as long as it suits them.

I wish, significant issues / queries came up on main forums for others to know about it as well. Few can be potential buyers of that particular brand / model.

How is it abroad, I believe they don't rely as much on WhatsApp groups as such.

[windrider]

As mentioned here already, biking in India generally is just a mode of transport. It is a requirement rather than an emotional purchase. When buying a bike, most of us just need to think about price, mileage and service/ spare availability. Two-wheelers hardly get any mechanical or technological updates here so I don't feel the need to search for any more information other these three things which i can easily find out from friends or my neighbourhood mechanic. They generally cost less than a lakh, so i don't need to put much thought into it unless i am going for something above 200-250cc. If i'm not satisfied with my purchase, i can sell it in a year or so without taking a huge hit. Hence i don't feel the need to go online and go through forums etc.

Hunting for a car is a lot more complicated. There are so many things that i have to take into consideration and a lot more information i have to process before I hand over a year's salary to a company. If i am unsatisfied and decide to sell my car, i will take a huge hit financially. For this reason, people will visit car websites.

What i'm saying is car websites have a lot more traffic and the manufacturers and advertisers know this. Team-bhp ranks 8401 on alexa while XBHP, a two wheeler website/magazine which is older than team-bhp and somewhat similar to team-bhp ranks 1,82,838. There are few people visiting and even fewer people on the forum or ownership threads. So there is a lot more industry support/sponsorship for car websites. Unfortunately this means most of these websites are basically just selling you advertisements disguised as reviews or news. I think Team-bhp is the only car website that stands out from the rest of the crowd. It is the only website run by auto enthusiasts for auto enthusiasts.

There is hardly anything new to discuss when it comes to two-wheelers. I mean what new products were launched in 2019? MT-15 , duke adv 390 and maybe a couple of jawas. All of which can be discussed and dissected in about 20 minutes.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the law of demand and supply. There are simply more online users who are invested in cars than motorcycles/scooters. Maybe its because cars have a wider user base than two wheelers. People drive cars as soon as they are 18 and well into their 60s,70s. It just isn't so with bikes. Most of us are done riding by the time we are into our 40s. The older i get, the more inclined i am to travel in cars. I am nowhere as crazy about motorcycle trips as i was in my early to mid 20s. I just cant handle the heat and back pain associated with a long rides

[narayans80]

There are lot of things to research and discuss on the buying and ownership of a car. The time and energy spent are worth saving you money. While there is lot of information on car buying, there is lot less information on ownership on car websites in general. This is where a forum fits in. This is true for all cars starting from the A segment.

There isn't much thought process or effort that goes into buying a mass market scooter or bike. Same thing with maintenance, there isn't lot of dough involved.

I spent over 2 years of reading ownership reports and issues compared to 2 days on a bike. We would have shuttled to the car showroom a good 15-20 times before we took delivery compared to a 2 sittings for the scooter. At least I spent 2 days on the scooter thread visited a Vespa showroom before we picked a TVS Jupiter. Our tenant has 5 scooters, all Activas ranging from 3rd to 6th generation

I am not a big bike rider, so haven't touched that aspect.