Team-BHP - The Suzuki Access 125 thread

Running Update:

Incident:
Sometime in April (16.5k kms), brother was riding the Access and it just shut-off, refused to start with the electric/kick, choke or not and had to be dragged home. The only thing I found peculiar was that the kick felt significantly "soft". The next day, the local FNG kicked it 10-15 times with th e ignition off and then kicked it once with the ignition on and it started. On asking he said it was a "compressor problem" by which he meant that seems like some carbon/sludge build-up was causing the valves to not shut properly and the compression wasn't happening. Kicking it would've caused it to dislodge and starting the engine. I wasn't personally present there, but this is what I was told when I enquired later. It does explain the soft kick. The mechanic said that it should run fine for some time but if it happens again then the head needs to be opened up and checked/cleaned.
Also mentioned that it happens more often in scooters than motorcycles.

Action:
The carbon build-up thing stuck with me and a couple of days ago with the Access nearing 17.5k kms. I decided to do an engine flush.
Poured in a 3M 50ml engine flush bottle in the engine with the old oil, idled with some variation in the engine rpm for 15 mins and then an unintended 2km cautious trip to get the drain bolt and O-ring which I had forgot. During that ride the engine felt a lot free but I could make out the significantly degraded lubrication while accelerating hence it was a very low rpm run.
The oil was finally drained out and fresh oil (same as earlier) was poured in. The drained oil did have some carbon content as compared to before adding the flush, however the oil strainer was clean.
I decided to pour only 700ml of oil from the 800ml can. The Access is suggested to use 700ml oil with the engine stamped with 650ml. Unfortunately, only the Suzuki Ecstar R5000 and 7000 oils come in a 700ml pack, and they don't have fully synthetic. So, for the last two changes I have been using the Castrol Power 1 Ultimate 5W40 800ml which actually contains 750ml (marked on the side) of oil. This time I poured in 700ml only and the dipstick confirmed the oil level at max.

The Access does feel free especially when decelerating with throttle at idle.
I might try the Suzuki Ecstar R7000 semi synthetic oil for the next change if I am around.

Queries:
- Since I have been using about 50-100ml more oil in a 650-700ml marked engine, could that cause the increased carbon buildup? There is no smoke under hard acceleration, no drop in acceleration and it has gone through 2-3 annual PUCs with no increase in pollutants since the engine oil switch to 800ml.
- I know it could also be the fuel, but can't do much about it as we typically fill from 2-4 pumps.

PS:
Last week, a friend's Swish 125 was not starting and when I tried, I immediately recognised the "soft" kick. Since it wasn't going to be used so it has been left at that considering the possibility of an impending engine repair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StepUP! (Post 5603515)

I have 2017 Access which has clocked 20000kms so far.
Offlate engine started shutting at low speeds, at signal when scooter is standstill.
....

Any thoughts/ advice?

I too have the 2017 Access and faced the same issue of low mileage and vehicle shutting down at idle. Root cause for shut down was found to be due to a hole in the rubber hose that connects air filter housing to the carburetor. You can ask the mechanic to check this part and also change the air filter if not already done. Tuning the carburetor to adjust the idle air:fuel ratio will also help. Low mileage is most likely due to Ethanol and nothing much can be done about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StepUP! (Post 5603515)

Offlate engine started shutting at low speeds, at signal when scooter is standstill.

Instead of blaming the ethanol outright I would just check the basics, stuff that keeps the engine going :
- air : filter
- fuel : carb settings and fuel lines
- spark : spark plugs
Once all these are ruled out then I guess an engine valve cleanup/repair might be needed.

Did your mechanic check all these ?
I find the Shell comment absurd, defies common sense.
If I were you, I would look for another mechanic or the ASC for a second opinion.

Seems like a carb/air filter issue. I typically fill up around 160km at 2 bars and I don't consider my riding conditions and manner to be very frugal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StepUP! (Post 5603515)

I have 2017 Access which has clocked 20000kms so far.
Offlate engine started shutting at low speeds, at signal when scooter is standstill.
Mechanic says this is due to the ethanol. As my running is low, he advises to use Shell premium petrol which doesn't have ethanol.
Also I observe after full tank, around 140kms only low fuel starts blinking. I think fuel efficiency has dropped considerably below 40kmpl

Any thoughts/ advice?

Your Scoot needs a thorough service. Shutting off is due to the following

No Spark:
-Check the spark plug for fouling (sooty).
-Check if the plug is sparking. If not:
-Replace the spark plug with "CR6HSA" from NGK.
-If there's still no spark, check the ignition coil, battery, and wiring.

No Air:
-Use a new SGP air filter.
-Inspect hoses for cracks and degradation.
-Replace the air filter annually.

No Fuel:
-Check fuel flow from the tank to the carburetor.
-Clean and tune the carburetor.
-Set the carburetor to 2 to 2.25 turns from bottom out.
-Adjust idle speed to 1400-1600rpm.

Throttle Cable:
-Check throttle cable free play (2-4mm).
-Adjust throttle cable to specification.

Your mech is lazy and does not want to open the dicky box and troubleshoot issues. If you have time, this can be done by you in a couple of hours.

I recently got my Suzuki Access 125 serviced with engine rebore work done, I took it to the service center at Bannerghatta road and got a very bad response from the service senior person, without looking at the bike he started suggesting I should do an engine overhaul, I took it to another service center at JP nagar and got the scooter test ride by service team they said to replace engine head and piston which would cost around 20k in case of play in the crankshaft, I just got the oil service and drove the scooter for a thousand kilometers and took it to a local mechanic for oil inspection, there was barely 200ml oil left in the engine and suggested getting this fixed.

I approved him to start the engine re-bore work and the next day he dismantled the entire engine and got to know the crankshaft had some play and the piston was completely useless due to riding with less engine oil.

The mechanic performed engine work and handed over the scooter after a couple of days, At First crank of the bike I instantly felt smooth engine performance as compared to rough engine sound, he instructed me I should not ride more than 40kmph speed and replace the engine oil after 500kms, I paid 11thousand rupees for all the work plus spares cost, Scooter runs smooth and Im riding it under 40kmph to get the new piston run-in time, I plan to replace fully synthetic oil for next replacement, Please advise me on how to take care of the scooter in the upcoming service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshimitsu (Post 5605668)

I plan to replace fully synthetic oil for next replacement, Please advise me on how to take care of the scooter in the upcoming service.

- Those repair charges seem very steep, but I haven't done any such repairs recently so can't say for sure. Anyway, this ship has sailed.

- Essentially you have to treat it as a new engine and drive like the manual specified when you got it new. low-mid rpms, smooth acceleration and deceleration and timely oil changes. Do remember to not ride at a constant rpm/speed for a long time and keep varying the throttle to help the parts set in. Check your manual > Running in.

- As for the synthetic oil, I would suggest going through 3 oil changes with normal oil and then move to synthetic/semi-synthetic.
Personally, I would suggest going from mineral to semi-synthetic and then to synthetic so you feel the entire spectrum of oils and what difference do they make. Probably you can switch too semi-synthetic oil for your 3rd oil change.
Do update us on what difference did you feel.
Take care of the amount of oil that's being filled and what's recommended for your engine.

Queries:
1. How old is your Access and how many kms it has done ?
2. What's the FE do you usually get?
3. What was the total cost of this engine repair?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shancz (Post 5603051)

The only thing I found peculiar was that the kick felt significantly "soft".

I had this same problem in my Access 125. Happened thrice with me within a 2 month period. This seems like Access' signature issue. This is surely a design or materials issue.

Even after riding for less than a Km it happened twice. After keeping it idle for few hours it starts normally with few kicks.

Once it happened in the Bangalore ORR near HSR layout. There wasn't even space in the road to push the scooter.

It scared me so much that I sold it.

On a lighter note: When showed the scoot to a FNG he actually laughed at me for buying this Access model with real money. They all know this model has the signature issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shancz (Post 5603051)

Hey shancz, I have a 2016 new shape Access with almost 33k on it. It was always a little hesitant to cold start on first crank. I have done everything from carb tuning, raising the idle, to checking the bendix drive and it was still slow. I bought it pre-owned at 23k. Then I have started noticing that most Access 125s have starting trouble so I let it be.

Recently the starts have become a proper pain. Scooter runs perfectly fine after the start. No power loss, no oil burning. Sometimes it'll start decently fast, sometimes you need to kick it 10-15 times. It has become quite unreliable that you can't expect it to start after switching off in front of a shop.

I have also come across numerous YT videos with the Access 'compressor issue'. Do they mean a compression issue? or an auto de-compressor issue? I'm at a loss. De-compressor mechanism is directly linked to starting procedure.