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Old 5th January 2022, 00:35   #1
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Default The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

Motorcycle men of TeamBHP, the EVs are coming. You have seen the chinese scooters bite at the ankles of the ICE giants. You have seen Ather and Ola heralding a new age as they attempt to claim a piece of the territory with forseeable success. You have heard the silent cacophony of the Ultraviolette F77 on warfooting. And news has come around that the Tork T6X has awoken from slumber, hungry too.

Though the bigger bikes can fend them off and have more time left on this world yet, the smaller ICE bikes\scooters, especially utilitarian commuters, may possibly die over the next couple of years (i.e. they might stop being a sensible buy unless you're a petrol junkie).

I am already being swayed by their propaganda: the relative silence of EVs and the promise of an age of peace (and cheap fuel costs through solar panels, and cheap maintenance costs through lesser moving parts). The electric infrastructure also seems to be getting ready for a growth spurt.

I've been holding on to the thought of waiting for the right bike to buy. But with the aggressors almost at my doorstep, I may not be able to dilly dally much longer if I'm to spend as much quality time as I can with petrol.

Since big bikes are beyond me, both in terms of finances involved and ability and interest to use the horses, I plan to go and get myself atleast one bike in the 250cc to possibly 400cc range this year as a last hurrah on my part in the ICE age, post which I may consider partially jumping ship once the registration on my over-a-decade-old 150cc bikes expire. By that time, both the electric vehicles themselves and the infra will have matured sufficiently.

So, even as a man who loves his clutch lever dearly, I expect my last IC engine bike will come sometime this year, and I'll likely hold on to it for the next decade. No telling what comes after that.

When do you expect your last one to come? Soon? A few years or more left? Has it already been made? Or never, and you think Splendors will Shine forever and I'm just a gloom-and-doomer? Share your reasons for it as well.

Not a troll post. Serious question. Do share your thoughts.
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Old 5th January 2022, 02:47   #2
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Default re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by drt_rdr View Post
Motorcycle men of TeamBHP, the EVs are coming...

...Serious question. Do share your thoughts.
For all things commuting or for trips within the city, EVs will certainly take over. I use my motorcycle purely for leisure. I don't really have a destination or an efficiency target when I ride my motorcycle. There really is no charging network for motorcycles. For me, there is not much use of a e-motorcycle that can go a 100 miles. I would not buy it even if it goes 300 miles on a single charge.

Even on Christmas Eve, in the middle of the Arizona desert, I find a super charger station where I am the only person charging, the Tesla charging network is that much accessible. This is when there are Teslas all over the place in AZ. The only way my motorcycle will be electric is when someone gets into an agreement to make use of the Tesla super charger network.
The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles-20211223_171936.jpg

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 5th January 2022 at 16:23. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 5th January 2022, 08:59   #3
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of Petrol-kind

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Originally Posted by drt_rdr View Post
When do you expect your last one to come? Soon? A few years or more left? Has it already been made? Or never, and you think Splendors will Shine forever and I'm just a gloom-and-doomer? Share your reasons for it as well
My last one is already here, so, all I got to do is keep riding it until one or more of the below happens:
  • I can ride no more
  • Accessibility to fuel stations are getting limited/restricted
  • Govt forcefully seizes fossil fueled vehicles
  • Practicality of owning a EV motorcycle surpasses fossil fueled motorcycle

Do I miss the clutch? Hell yes! But change is the norm, change is the only thing that's constant in this Universe; even the distance between Earth & Sun is increasing every day, so is our Milkyway Galaxy receding, after all, riding a EV motorcycle without clutch & sound is not even the size of atom compared to all these.

If you may kindly excuse now, let me go & have a ride now please
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Old 5th January 2022, 09:55   #4
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon View Post
The only way my motorcycle will be electric is when someone gets into an agreement to make use of the Tesla super charger network.
Maybe it was a mass premonition 5 years ago of things to come, but that is why many hardcore riders became cyclists (equally hardcore).

The only charging I need to take care of now is my food, water, and battery packs for my phone, lights, and Garmin.

And the world is then my oyster, albeit at a slower pace.

Cheers, Doc
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Old 6th January 2022, 15:20   #5
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by drt_rdr View Post
Motorcycle men of TeamBHP, the EVs are coming. You have seen the chinese scooters bite at the ankles of the ICE giants. You have seen Ather and Ola heralding a new age as they attempt to claim a piece of the territory with forseeable success. You have heard the silent cacophony of the Ultraviolette F77 on warfooting. And news has come around that the Tork T6X has awoken from slumber, hungry too.
Very good thread there drt_rdr, thanks for starting this thought process. Electric scooters have matured pretty fast compared to their motorcycle counterparts as they have wider usability, practicality of good storage and compatibility with both the genders. The EV bike space has been very slow to evolve & I am one amongst the few like you who are closely following this space. I am hooked to the Ultraviolette F77 & Tork T6X (Kratos) threads and any new message popping up in those threads brings a sparkle in my eyes.

Quote:
Though the bigger bikes can fend them off and have more time left on this world yet, the smaller ICE bikes\scooters, especially utilitarian commuters, may possibly die over the next couple of years (i.e. they might stop being a sensible buy unless you're a petrol junkie).
I absolutely agree with that statement. I have seen many milkmen, paperwalas, delivery boys in my locality already made the shift & merrily riding their e-bikes. These are frugal, practical (with more load carrying capacity) and almost noiseless.

Quote:
I am already being swayed by their propaganda: the relative silence of EVs and the promise of an age of peace (and cheap fuel costs through solar panels, and cheap maintenance costs through lesser moving parts). The electric infrastructure also seems to be getting ready for a growth spurt.
No doubt EVs have tremendous potential, however depends on the target usage

Quote:
I've been holding on to the thought of waiting for the right bike to buy. But with the aggressors almost at my doorstep, I may not be able to dilly dally much longer if I'm to spend as much quality time as I can with petrol.

Since big bikes are beyond me, both in terms of finances involved and ability and interest to use the horses, I plan to go and get myself atleast one bike in the 250cc to possibly 400cc range this year as a last hurrah on my part in the ICE age, post which I may consider partially jumping ship once the registration on my over-a-decade-old 150cc bikes expire. By that time, both the electric vehicles themselves and the infra will have matured sufficiently.
I am sailing in the same boat, waiting for more than 2 years now to get the right bike for me. My used case is weekend rides in the nearby hills/lakes/dams within a radius of 100kms. Occasionally this bike will be used for city runs as well. So I have been waiting patiently for an E-bike to be launched that would give a range of 200km or more. I may run out of patience by mid-2022 if the wait for an E-bike for my used case gets delayed and jump onto the ICE powered bikes. The Yamahas (FZS25, MT-15) & Honda CB300R are on the top of my list.

Quote:
So, even as a man who loves his clutch lever dearly, I expect my last IC engine bike will come sometime this year, and I'll likely hold on to it for the next decade. No telling what comes after that.

When do you expect your last one to come? Soon? A few years or more left? Has it already been made? Or never, and you think Splendors will Shine forever and I'm just a gloom-and-doomer? Share your reasons for it as well.

Not a troll post. Serious question. Do share your thoughts.
I am sure to get myself a bike by the middle of this year (mostly it would be one of the ICE powered ones from the 3 mentioned above). In my opinion for weekday errands, city runs an electric scooter makes more sense, but I already have a Wego at home, so I won't go for another scooter. Moreover I have started using my bicycle more often for small errands and take out the scooter only if I have to carry a pillion. In conclusion, though the E-bikes are very promising and the future of mobility, I won't jump the bandwagon just yet as I don't have a compelling used case. I would opt for an ICE powered bike and would retain it at least for the next 5 years or till such time that I can ride it comfortably.
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Old 6th January 2022, 17:19   #6
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

Personally speaking, I am against the electric mode of transport.
I think that having so many batteries in circulation is going to be a bigger environmental problem when they eventually reach their end of life than fuel guzzling vehicles roaming around like they do today.

Moreover, I'm not a big fan of the silence of electric vehicles. I took a TD of the nexon and came away unimpressed. Haven't ridden the Ather or the Ola but I'm sure they cant match the ride of my RX or Interceptor

Let's see what the future holds.
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Old 6th January 2022, 18:37   #7
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by drt_rdr View Post
Motorcycle men of TeamBHP, the EVs are coming.
Any figures on EV market share? Has it reached 1% yet in India?

In my city, and am sure in others as well, there are rows of streets where people park their bikes outside at night. Dunno what it will look like with charging cables running to each one. Especially in the monsoons. I don't want to even think about a fire scenario.

EVs are great toys. Them being anything more at this time is wishful thinking.

Cheers

Ride Safe
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Old 6th January 2022, 18:59   #8
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

Whatever may come, I'm never gonna bring an EV into my garage. Personally, I'm more of a "loud pipes save lives" kinda guy.

From my point of view, the overall pollution caused by 'making' of an EV is way, way higher than 'making' of an ICE vehicle. Right from the mining of Lithium for the sake of the batteries to the extra burning of coal at the power-generation level, its almost two-fold increase in the overall levels of pollution. This might be the temporary solution for places like Delhi, but I don't see it as an outright full solution to the pollution question.

As discussed before, EV tech (as of now) is suitable for making small galli-to-galli runabouts within our colonies. Grab a kilo of aalu, maybe some kothmir along the way, your EV scoot can do it. Carry a household LPG cylinder? Maybe not. They're rechargable, smaller, and compact compared to their ICE counterparts. Other than the major players like Ather, Ola, TVS and Bajaj, rest all electric scooters are CKD's from China. Definitely not reliable, and a few have been spotted catching on fire.

Motorcycles are used for rough and tough, do-it-all means of transport here in India. You can STILL spot families riding fours on a 2-wheeler. Heck, I've seen a family of five cramped on a three decade-old Chetak. You can still find decades-old CD100's, KB100's, and 4S Champions plying on the roads today. They have the reliability factor, which EV's tend to lose overtime. IC Engines are known to keep their torque figures and the same powerband after a few decades also. The same can't be said about electric motors (as of now). It's still a lot of unexplored area out there.


A lot of automobile conglomerates are outright banishing their R&D side of ICE. That deeply, deeply saddens me. Where is the world heading to? Rides without wheels?

I've heard of times where petrol was being sold at Rs.18/lit. I've lived in the times where petrol was being sold at Rs.60 something/lit. I'm living in a time where petrol is being sold at triple-digit prices and a single electricity unit is being priced at around 3 rupees in the lowest band (0-50 units). I don't wanna live in a time where this same unit is priced at 30 rupees. Maybe even more.
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Old 6th January 2022, 20:11   #9
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

Guys, the same questions were asked multiple times on every EV related thread, let's not start another discussion around EVs not good for environment without any data backing your case.

For members who are worried about coal power let me ask a question, where is the electricity coming for refining your petrol? I do not want to further extend this thread into an ICE vs EV.

I request for further discussion on EVs, post on EV sub forum.

EVs are the future, Zero motorcycles, livewire from HD are wonderful bikes. It takes some time because the established ones are not interested and we need a Tesla( of bikes) to start a revolution. Large bikes can fend off for some years, before they are unviable to ride due to many other reasons. EV enthusiasts are hoping OLA to be that Tesla to revolutionize the 2W industry.

Last edited by SKC-auto : 6th January 2022 at 20:18.
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Old 6th January 2022, 21:35   #10
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by jomson13 View Post
Personally speaking, I am against the electric mode of transport.
I think that having so many batteries in circulation is going to be a bigger environmental problem when they eventually reach their end of life than fuel guzzling vehicles roaming around like they do today.
So, I take it you're hoping ICE vehicles will exist forever. Good news for you is that companies like Mazda are also thinking along the same lines and trying to squeeze out more efficiency out of ICE.

But...

And I'm no expert on the subject, but the problem of battery disposal exists even for ICE vehicles. Where do all the lead-acid batteries that we need to replace every few years on our vehicles go? Not just the ones used for vehicles but even your household UPS and such. They get partially recycled, legally or illegally, many times, some of the contents entering our ground water, which is already quite damaging. This is not a good arguement against battery bikes.

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
EVs are great toys. Them being anything more at this time is wishful thinking.
Yes, EVs are still limited, but this will most likely change before you realize it. Hence the topic of whether you're contemplating your last ICE buy sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by saitvsk23 View Post
From my point of view, the overall pollution caused by 'making' of an EV is way, way higher than 'making' of an ICE vehicle. Right from the mining of Lithium for the sake of the batteries to the extra burning of coal at the power-generation level, its almost two-fold increase in the overall levels of pollution.
Whether you're right or wrong, what matters is EVs have certain definite benefits over ICE vehicles and people ARE gravitating towards them for various reasons. They seem to be inevitable now and it's only a matter of time before we adopt technology to make them more efficient.

Quote:
I've heard of times where petrol was being sold at Rs.18/lit. I've lived in the times where petrol was being sold at Rs.60 something/lit. I'm living in a time where petrol is being sold at triple-digit prices and a single electricity unit is being priced at around 3 rupees in the lowest band (0-50 units). I don't wanna live in a time where this same unit is priced at 30 rupees. Maybe even more.
In 2000, I believe the price of petrol was around 20-25 rupees a litre. Meaning, if you owned a 150cc bke at the time, with 100 rupees in the fuel tank, you could travel anywhere between 120-200 kms depending on how well behaved your right wrist was. Today, I went on a 150 km joyride on my 150cc bike and I've spent about 500 rupees on petrol for that distance.

If you can digest this, surely you can find a way to live with rising electricity costs too.

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Originally Posted by SKC-auto View Post
Guys, the same questions were asked multiple times on every EV related thread, let's not start another discussion around EVs not good for environment without any data backing your case.
Have to agree with SKC-auto here. There's enough information out there on batteries and EVs to put some of these questions away. Please let's not turn this thread into an EV bashing one without due diligence on our parts.

I, for one, am actually looking forward to the day when I can have real world 500km range electric bike or car, and I can charge it off the grid through solar power and possibly have the cheapest means of personal transport. That day might come within just a handful of years.

Last edited by drt_rdr : 6th January 2022 at 21:38.
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Old 6th January 2022, 23:16   #11
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Originally Posted by saitvsk23 View Post
Whatever may come, I'm never gonna bring an EV into my garage. Personally, I'm more of a "loud pipes save lives" kinda guy.


These are first gen EV obviously they are not going to be perfect but you gotta give it a chance. EV are the future and we should accept that. I am pretty sure first gen of ICE were even worse compared to this. You are at this moment comparing a technology which has been refined for over 150 years to something that is like 5 years old.

The reliability and toughness will come as the platform matures.
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Old 6th January 2022, 23:22   #12
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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. That day might come within just a handful of years.
Like I said, wishful thinking.

Let's assume that every TBhp member switched to EVs. Will that quantify for a revolution? I doubt. IMHO, unless it makes an impact for the lives for the poor majority the way a humble TVS XL can make, it's just an elitist toy.

How long has Tesla been around? About 10 years? Has it improved the life of even an average Joe anywhere in the world? Other than make obscene money for the shareholders (Please note the money is from the hype driven stock market and not revenue)? Any quantifiable benefit for the world? Reduced emissions from a couple of million cars? I could argue that the electricity used just to chatter about it on the internet has offset the difference and then some.

I don't intend to buy an EV ever in my lifetime and don't have any problems with that.

Cheers.

Ride Safe
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Old 7th January 2022, 00:12   #13
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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Like I said, wishful thinking.

Let's assume that every TBhp member switched to EVs. Will that quantify for a revolution? I doubt. IMHO, unless it makes an impact for the lives for the poor majority the way a humble TVS XL can make, it's just an elitist toy.

How long has Tesla been around? About 10 years? Has it improved the life of even an average Joe anywhere in the world? Other than make obscene money for the shareholders (Please note the money is from the hype driven stock market and not revenue)? Any quantifiable benefit for the world? Reduced emissions from a couple of million cars? I could argue that the electricity used just to chatter about it on the internet has offset the difference and then some.
I doubt the Pulsar ever made any meaningful difference to the lives of the poor majority. It's made a lot of money for Bajaj though, and it's added some value to the lives of the middle class. But there's nothing elite about the 150 pulsar, it's downright ditchwater at this point. And if you can afford a pulsar, you can also afford a quality EV. Cheaper Chinese ones, you can afford two or three or four of those for that money, and right now, running an EV is obviously cheaper than running on petrol. You don't need the poor majority to buy into it to start a revolution, they're always late adopters. Middle class and above are sufficient to see some real benefits for our society.

Anyway, thanks for the response. So, that's one more in the "never" category.

Last edited by drt_rdr : 7th January 2022 at 00:14.
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Old 7th January 2022, 00:26   #14
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

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I, for one, am actually looking forward to the day when I can have real world 500km range electric bike or car, and I can charge it off the grid through solar power and possibly have the cheapest means of personal transport. That day might come within just a handful of years.
So goodbye to high speed cross country touring and road travel.

Goodbye to 1000+ km days in the saddle or the car.

Driving to Bangalore from Poona over two days, with an overnight stop to recharge somewhere at the border (Hubli Dharwad).

Cheers, Doc
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Old 7th January 2022, 00:47   #15
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Default Re: The advent of EVs and the fall of petrol motorcycles

Not necessarily. I mean, I don't know about high speeds. But by the time a bike with 500 km range happens, I expect charging speeds and infra will also have become more accessible. At that point, nothing's going to stop your cross country travels with that kind of range other than issues with the bike.

Personally the most I've ever done is around 500km in a day. My tolerance threshold is lower. After a certain point, it just becomes junk, uninvolved zombie miles for me. So, I don't really care about 1000+ km days.

Last edited by drt_rdr : 7th January 2022 at 00:49.
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