[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by girishglg

...
So all these questions started with the current situation in hand that is I have a bike which is quite old but in decent working condition and perfectly usable for short runabouts. However the my better half has a very bleak opinion about it and feels it should have been disposed a long while ago for a better set of wheels as in my case preferably another bike.
...

Firstly (and this is only if your head is ruling over your heart), it almost always makes sense from both a financial and environmental point of view to keep on using the vehicle that you already have. The time to replace it is when maintenance expenses and the inconvenience of downtime becomes high. This is especially true if your usage is low - less than 10km per day.

However, if you absolutely must buy a new electric scooter, I would highly recommend you choose a "high performance" model like the Bajaj Chetak, Ather 450X, or TVS iQube. Quite simply, they offer far more versatility and you can therefore keep them for a long time.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Dear Girish,
I have been using a LOW speed bike for 8 years now. Happy to say that it satisfies all my run about requirements.
..
So yeah, If you can manage all this you can for sure go for "Low Speed, no RC, No License, No Helmet (but I always wear as I value my head more )" bike which will cost you lesser.

Hi. Forgot to mention an interesting point:

My wife never rode a two wheeler in her life. Dosen't even knows to ride a bicycle.

She learnt to drive in flat TWO days soon after the purchase and has been driving ever since.

We once travelled from Bommanahalli to Bande Bommasandra, a distance of about 32km. Since this was her first long () drive, I followed her on my Splendor while she happily negotiated her way through the traffic at Marathahalli and KR puram and Hennur.

A blessing in disguise was the weight of the e-scooter. We recently happened to drive my cousins Bajaj EV. I instantly it was heavy. My be its just me but I felt that it was a bit heavier than my splendor.

So yeah, keeping in mind the low speed (Safety) and low weight (over all handling), I would say that any day a low speed e-scooter would be an ideal bike for anyone (especially for ladies like my wife who is new to two wheeler) who wants to learn how to drive a two wheeler.

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

[Sivacar]

Consider Okinawa Praise+, It has got a swappable battery, has a decent torque to pull 2 people, and a top speed of around 64 kmph. It is neither low speed nor high speed.

The second option can the TVS icube, no swappable battery, top speed at around 75 kmph.

Have ridden both the scooters on a short test drive, the icube felt natural like an ICE scooter, whereas the Okinawa cuts the power to the motor when brakes are applied. Felt a little difficult to manage in crawling speeds.

Both are reasonably priced at around 1.3 lakhs on road in Chennai (post subsidy, including the cost of the home charger)

[vigneshnr]

Originally Posted by girishglg

Firstly I am a guy who has sworn on the traditional IC motor be it for the four wheelers I own or the motorcycle.
[*]Have a requirement for short runabouts hence not especially worried about range or speed, but it should be able to carry two persons with some groceries without much of a hassle. So if the low speed models can do this with ease at a cheaper investment then why not go in for one for a couple of years and then buy a mainstream high performance one once things stabilize.

Hi, I have seen some of my friends in the same situation. The following is my recommendation basis the points and needs. In the order
- For limited usage, a frugal option can be to pick a low odo pre-owned ICE scooter - Jupiter / Activa. Post BS6 2W prices have shot up by a huge margin.
- New ICE scooter - I feel EV would be more useful for someone with set routine and regular use.
- Last option. If EV appeals to you, then consider going for Ather / TVS iQube / Bajaj EV.

[girishglg]

Originally Posted by Sran

He first booked pure ev in a haste but was not convinced by it after riding it for a day and returned it. Then he bought a Okinawa ipraise+ and in the 4 months of owning it he is happy with it. I have also driven it twice and found it to be good.

Thanks Sran, finally got a on the ground review of Okinawa ev scooters and yes ipraise+ is I think their top in the line product. Though I am not particularly fond or leaning towards Okinawa as such, but this brand got me seriously thinking about such a vehicle as they have a dealership in just a walking distance away from my home. However Ridge Plus caught my attention as it was well priced at around 70k on the road and had a top speed of 45 but needs RTO and insurance.

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Dear Girish,

And yes, it was able to carry loads. My wife, two small kids and myself have all travelled together for shopping/roun abouts so yeah, it CAN carry decent amount of load.

NOTE: I think now a days you do have an option to choose Li-ion battries for low speed bikes, so if you budget allows, please go for it.

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Hi. Forgot to mention an interesting point:

My wife never rode a two wheeler in her life. Dosen't even knows to ride a bicycle.

She learnt to drive in flat TWO days soon after the purchase and has been driving ever since.

[/b]

Thanks for that wonderfully detailed review of a low speed electric scooter and some great points there about using it.

Also very reassuring that your wife could easily pick up riding it. The suggestion about batteries is also very useful and seems like many manufacturers are now offering Li- ion packs nowadays.

Originally Posted by Sivacar

Consider Okinawa Praise+, It has got a swappable battery, has a decent torque to pull 2 people, and a top speed of around 64 kmph. It is neither low speed nor high speed.

Both are reasonably priced at around 1.3 lakhs on road in Chennai (post subsidy, including the cost of the home charger)

Right for that kind of price I would put my money with a well know tier one engineering giant like TVS rather than other guys. It becomes interesting when there are other models which are cheaper such as Ridge plus from Okinawa. Just mentioning one such though, however there may be models from other manufacturers as well which I would like to explore.

Cheaper because I would look at this as strictly a stop gap to buy a well seasoned ev scooter after 3 years for sure as by then things would have got much more stabilized.

[shancz]

Just realised you stay in KA05, I used to stay in Jayanagar 4th T block. I am assuming by local run you mean in the Jayanagar area like the 4th block market etc.

Just wanted to add a couple of scenarios that came to mind in case you haven't considered them :

- When you take the left from 4th T block bus stop towards 4th block through Surana College, the road keeps going slightly uphill with speed breakers in between for 200-300m. How would the 25kmph EV handle that is my concern.

- And since the buses also ply on the same roads then keeping left due to inability to overtake might end up in a situation where you end up following the same bus due to the inability in making a sufficient enough gap even if you overtake it(not advised with the speed cap though).

Agree with others that you/your wife would outgrow the 25kmph cap faster than you expect.

Anecdote :
A friend's Dad had got himself one of those Yo bikes when they initially launched 8-10 years ago IIRC for 25k and he used to struggle on the inclines, the fiber/plastic body was horrible and aged poorly. Obe fine day during charging something happened and the motor went kaput, the repair estimate wasn't worth it and the ebike was thrown as scrap.

Today's EVs have better quality and performance but I am not convinced that the 25kmph limit is advisable in real life traffic. Plus I am also not sure what would their resale be 5 years down the line assuming that EVs are going to get better rapidly and more economical as compared to the previous 5 years.
Not to forget the safety angle for batteries too.

[GTO]

Voted for high-speed model. After a few months or years of ownership, you might get bored with other stuff (features, looks etc.), but you will NEVER ever get bored of a great motor or a great engine. It is one of the keys to holding onto your vehicle for a longer time and saving money in the longer run - my article on this topic (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)).

This is why S-Cross 1.6L owners still hold onto their steeds, but 1.3L owners get bored. It's why the 1st-gen City Vtec is still loved, and why Jetta 2.0 TDI owners relish their machines even today (but the 1.4L turbo-petrol owners don't). This is the reason why I was still enjoying my Hondas in their 8th year of ownership, my 6-cylinder beast as it marches toward the 9th year and my C220 after it crossed 100,000 km.

Always choose the better motor / engine. The dividends are rich in the longer term.

[landcruiser123]

I'll buy a low speed scooter as I intend to use it as a tool and not ride long distances. All my 2W rides will be under 5km and most of them will under <3km.

A huge cost for the extra acceleration and fancy equipment is not justified in my case.

[girishglg]

Originally Posted by shancz

- When you take the left from 4th T block bus stop towards 4th block through Surana College, the road keeps going slightly uphill with speed breakers in between for 200-300m. How would the 25kmph EV handle that is my concern.

You are close, I live near JP Nagar but with your live example totally get it why a low speed e-scooter is not the ideal one in the long run and agree with @GTO of not getting bored with a great motor as time goes by.

Now that comes to another interesting offering just round the corner which is the Bounce Infinity e1 which has a mid range motor 1.5kw I guess and has a top speed of around 60kmph.

Also it has a removable battery which would help in cases such as mine who are in an apartment and a common charging infrastructure is not in place currently and doesn't cost a bomb especially to be used as a local commute.

What is your opinion on the practicality of such mid range ones especially the infinity e1 -https://bounceinfinity.com/infinity_e1/Performance

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I'll buy a low speed scooter as I intend to use it as a tool and not ride long distances. All my 2W rides will be under 5km and most of them will under <3km.

Just curious which scooter would you buy with the options available?

[shancz]

Originally Posted by girishglg

1. Now that comes to another interesting offering just round the corner which is the Bounce Infinity e1 which has a mid range motor 1.5kw I guess and has a top speed of around 60kmph.

2. Also it has a removable battery which would help in cases such as mine who are in an apartment and a common charging infrastructure is not in place currently and doesn't cost a bomb especially to be used as a local commute.

1. Bounce E1 would again be a locally assembled copy of some Chinese unit which seems to form the majority of the market since their domain isn't manufacturing.
Setting that aside and going by what the specs indicate :
- 60kph speed is workable but have to see how the performance is on road. Not sure if they've sold any till date.

- Looking at the quoted prices on Bikewale it would cost 80k on road Bangalore. That's 27k lower than the iQube but I am not sure if its even close to it in performance let alone the Ather. But since I am not competent enough on EVs and how the specs translate into performance I cannot form an opinion whether the iQube is worth the extra 27k.

2. Removable battery seems good on paper but I am apprehensive when it comes to carrying a heavy Li-Ion battery pack around which exposes it to physical impacts.
Especially when the built-in safety mechanisms to prevent thermal runaways is an unknown and unexpected, IMHO.

If you're decided on an EV then get something which has been around for some time(relatively) and hasn't reported any major issues.
A glance at the EV space doesn't look encouraging if you're comparing it with a conventional scooter.
The ones to get are priced over a lakh which is a bit steep IMHO. I would wait for at least 3-4 years for the EV scooters to make sense in economy.

If emissions aren't your primary concern and if you're ready to pay 80k for the E1 then why not get a Scooty Pep+ for 72k and keep the 8k to offset the extra cost of fuel over the next 4000 kms. I am not even including the costs to charge the EV

[shancz]

The E1 has been launched, for pricing and reviews check the related thread (Bounce Infinity electric scooter launch on December 2nd. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 68,999).

Tried the Okinawa Lite and Praise Pro today.
The ride(can't really call it a TD since it was partial) was very short over smooth roads and a pillion on board.

Lite has a 25kmph max speed and a 250W motor. It was excruciatingly slow to begin with, the instrument console wasn't visible properly in direct sunlight and sadly within a minute the scooter died since it wasn't charged. No alarms for sure and since the instrument wasn't clearly visible couldn't see the battery icon.
It had really small wheels, the sturdiness of components like the front forks wasn't good, it felt like a toy and reaffirmed my assumption that it was best suited for small errands within premises of your society or colony at best. On public roads its a safety hazard.
Considering it costs as much as a Scooty Pep+ on road definitely not worth it.

Moved on to the Praise Pro which has a 1000W motor with eco and turbo modes. This actually felt like a scooter to ride with decent brakes and suspension. Felt sturdy and the components looked the part at least.
While I was expecting the "instant torque" to blow me away it just didn't. Even in turbo mode it accelarated way slower than my Access. But if you have to buy something from Okinawa this should be the one. If you should buy it is another question.

Other points :
- The underseat storage is disappointing and can't even hold a half face helmet like the Studds Cub. This is applicable for their entire range of scooters. The battery pack is housed there.

- RTO and registration is exempted only for the 25kmph ones while the rest are charged the usual road tax but this could vary across states.

- All come with a 3 year warranty on motor and battery.

- The battery pack should cost about 20-30k on average but varies across models.

- Maintenance is currently limited to tightening brakes, checking disc brake fluids, checking "some cables" and greasing.

- They're pricey. The Praise Pro costs 95k on road and the Lite is 72k. None of them seem worth the price unless someone is able to recover 70-80% of their price in the first 3-4 years of usage, IMO.

I don't think they're going to age very well, their USP lies in the fact that they should be used as much as possible to recover the costs within the warranty period.

Example with some ballpark numbers:
If your running is 1000km/month so you ride 36000km in 3 years.
Considering an average FE of 45kmpl with a base fuel price of 120/l so it also includes some maintenance charges, you'll need 800 litres of fuel which will cost you ₹96000.
So if you buy the Praise Pro at 95k you've recovered 70-80% of the cost in 3 years adjusting for electricity charges as well.

This is the convincing argument for such electric scooters as they exist today.
Does it make sense for your needs? Tweak the numbers for your use case and see for yourself.

But always calculate for the warranty period only as the motor and battery pack are too expensive a spare and will turn this calculation on its head if you end up changing it post the warranty period.

Hope it helps.

[GutsyGibbon]

Are there any good electric bicycles with lithium batteries available in the Indian market now?
Something like the Rad Runner or Rad Rover would be awesome. Much of the price in the US market can be attributed to marketing and profits. These bicycles can go upto 40km/hr, they are limited to 20mph because of regulation. They are easy enough to pedal when you want, and use the electric boost when tired/going uphill. IMHO, they are certainly better than these weak scooters limited to 25kmph

https://electrek.co/2021/07/20/radro...eens-and-more/

[Amrik Singh]

Is the build of Scooter going to be sturdy like that of Bajaj Chetak of 80's which are constructed of thick steel sheet that last till day? The scooters of this decade are hardly going to be roadworthy in their 10 years of life. What we see now is Fiberglass and Polycarbonate sheet body - light and flexible. Easy to replace any broken or dented part instead of dent beating of the past.

[girishglg]

Originally Posted by shancz

Example with some ballpark numbers:
If your running is 1000km/month so you ride 36000km in 3 years.
Considering an average FE of 45kmpl with a base fuel price of 120/l so it also includes some maintenance charges, you'll need 800 litres of fuel which will cost you ₹96000.
So if you buy the Praise Pro at 95k you've recovered 70-80% of the cost in 3 years adjusting for electricity charges as well.


But always calculate for the warranty period only as the motor and battery pack are too expensive a spare and will turn this calculation on its head if you end up changing it post the warranty period.

Very logical and well articulated and it makes sense. As of now it would be best to just milk the ev scooter till its warranty period and get away with it. But now puts one in dilemma if the purpose is just for the odd errands. Should one go for it just yet?

Also checked out the Bounce Infinity e1 reviews on youtube and understand that the build quality is just average and the main USP is the battery swap facility.

BTW are you in the mode of buying a scooter since you mentioned the trials you took recently. Anything that has triggered the buy option yet?

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Is the build of Scooter going to be sturdy like that of Bajaj Chetak of 80's which are constructed of thick steel sheet that last till day?

Absolutely the build quality seem tacky to say the least, just meant to hold up till they are sold. However some noted brands like TVS iCube seem well put together but only a long term ownership review can tell.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by girishglg

1. But now puts one in dilemma if the purpose is just for the odd errands. Should one go for it just yet?

2. BTW are you in the mode of buying a scooter since you mentioned the trials you took recently. Anything that has triggered the buy option yet?

1. IMO it doesn't make sense, see below.

2. Not me, quite happy with the 4+ year old Access which does 1500-2000kms annually
A contact was asking about the proposition for an EV for a running of 2-5 kms/day to begin with(new learner) and would then extend the travel to the main roads. Money was a major constraint. So the scooter had to be reliable and last its RC without any major work. Running won't exceed 4-5000km/year in any case.
Since I had no experience I dropped into the nearest showroom to check it out. That's how the trial happened.
Recommended the Scooty Pep+ which is 72k on road here which is what the 25kmph units retail for.