[KedarB]

After scouring through all of YouTube and internet for content on my eventual bike purchase and harassing my family and friends into umpteen discussions on “which bike and why”, I am turning to my brothers and sisters on Team BHP for their opinions. If 40 is considered as the middle ages, then I am still a few years away from that. However, whatever I buy now, I would want to hold on to it for the next 15 years. So, this bike is going to take me through my middle ages and hopefully ride out the apocalypse that IC engined machines face in this and the next decade. I have had a similar thought process when I changed my car 4 years ago, when I moved from an Ertiga to an Innova Crysta Diesel. Apart from all the disruptions happening in automotive world, this thought process also stems from me not wanting to spend my money on any big-ticket purchases in my 40s. I want to spend my time and money on experiences, not on acquiring material things in an endless cycle of upgrades.

That being said, let me talk about two things before going to my shortlisted options –

My background in motorcycling

• Started riding on - Sunny Zip, then graduated to TVC Scooty (2 stroke one) and then to Kinetic Honda. These were in the family, not necessarily my own
• My first bike, the Hero Honda Splendour - used it within city limits during my college and initial Engineering days
• First upgrade was to Bajaj Pulsar 150 - This was the first digital model with the digital speedo. Did my first long ride on this, riding from my native place Aurangabad to Pune where I was starting on my job. Did some weekend trekking trips on this bike with my then roommates. However, when I got my car, the bike was not used much, and I was having to replace its battery due to it remaining stationary. Finally sold it to our compounder back in Aurangabad
• Bike-less for around 3-4 years - when I only used my car for commute and my wife’s Honda Dio for grocery shopping nearby. Our son was born during this time and my weekends were always packed so there were no leisure riding trips happening. At one point, my office buddies started planning for weekend leisure rides and a bunch of them started looking for new bikes for themselves. I was toying with the idea of commuting to office on a motorcycle; I had an Ertiga back then and constant commuting in peak traffic led to an early synchro ring failure in that car. These two things led to me acquiring my next ride, which is what I have with me right now
• Current ride, Bajaj Avenger 220 Cruise – I had just finished watching “The long way round” and was fascinated by the adventure touring bikes they used in that series. The big daddy of ADVs, the BMV 1200 GS was brilliant and the idea of a bike that was tailor made for touring, having the optimum rider triangle, long travel suspension, correct wheel sizes and tires, and a lot of luggage mounting options really appealed to me. But there wasn’t a single option in the market at that time in this category. Hero impulse was the closest and I was trying to see if I can get that one. Hero and Honda had already divorced, and on first inquiry, the dealer said he can get me one if I make the full payment in advance as it was being made on order only. My wife was not in favor of this as she felt the rear seat was too high and the silencer too close to the pillion making this unsafe for riding with our son. Bajaj had newly launched the avenger in multiple variants. My wife liked the Avenger as it had a pillion backrest and a relatively flat seat that would allow three of us to travel short distances. I had shortlisted two other bikes, the Bajaj AS 200 and Suzuki Gixxer 155. The Suzuki was great but wasn’t much of an upgrade on my previous ride and had a poor pillion seat. The AS 200 was more of a dressed-up NS 200 and wasn’t an actual adventure touring bike. I also felt it had vibrations in higher rev ranges, especially on the fairing. This too had a higher perched pillion seat and had a strong no from my wife, so we ultimately rejected it. RE classic 350 and Thunderbird 350 were also very popular and in vogue at that time, but my practical mind rejected these expensive, vibrating, high maintenance and slow motorcycles. I felt that these were “old” bikes, not “retro” and were not value for money. RE bikes anyways cannot compete on spec sheets and I wasn’t a mature enough rider at that time to see what value they provide in terms of the riding experience. By the time I could make up my mind, the impulse was pulled from the market and was no longer available, even on order. So, after flip-flopping between the Avenger and the AS 200, I finally settled for the Avenger. In my mind, this was anyways going to be a stop gap arrangement. There was news about a host of ADVs that were in the pipeline. The KTM 390 based adv, a BMW adv in collaboration with TVS, RE’s Himalayan and Bajaj’s CS400 concept. I thought I could experience a cruiser style motorcycle till these options are launched in the market and are stable enough for me to purchase. So, the decision was made, and we finally welcomed the Bajaj Avenger 220 cruise in Jan 2016.

Just to break the monotony, check out some snaps of my bike on the many scenic locations around Pune -










With friends -








In hindsight – I never felt safe to ride three up in Pune’s chaotic traffic so we never really did this. As you see, I installed the STUDDS pannier boxes and my wife found it very difficult to get on the rear seat with these so even 2 up riding has very rarely happened. COVID wiped out 2.5 years in between. So, the bike was only used for weekend leisure rides pre-covid and few office commutes, whatever happens in the hybrid working scheme, post COVID.



Issues I have with my current motorcycle
[You can skip this part and jump straight to what I am looking for from the new bike (next post) ]

Since 2016, I have evolved as a motorcyclist over the experience I got riding the avenger in city and on popular routes in and around Pune (of which, there are plenty, with a wide variety of surfaces). The core requirement is still the same – touring. But the nuances of it have changed. Some of them are partly because of the issues I have with my current ride so let me start with that.

1. The cruiser body style and the rider's weight distribution – because of the rider triangle in avenger, the rider’s entire weight falls on the lower back and the tailbone. The feet forward position does not allow the rider to offload some of this weight off of the ass while going over speed-brakers or bad roads. The rear suspension is also mounted right below the tailbone and has lesser travel range due to the lower overall height of the bike and one really feels the impact from bigger, sharper potholes while riding even at moderate speeds. This really impacts how long I can comfortably ride this bike. Of all the reviews I read/saw before I got the avenger, nobody highlighted this aspect, and it was a surprise discovery for me, and this is the biggest issue I have with it. The long wheelbase raked steering angle, ape hanger handlebars of the cruise model and the feet forward sitting position makes it cumbersome for me to ride this bike in city and in slow moving traffic.
2. Suspension setup – this one is a mixed bag. In order to make the slow speed ride experience better on bad/broken roads, I have the rear suspension on its softest preload setting. This improves the slow speed ride to some extent, but you still feel a lot of bumps due to how you sit on it. On the other hand, this setting results in a floaty, wallowy ride on faster and long sweeping turns on a highway, especially if the road surface is undulating (which in most cases it is).
3. Soft seats – the rider seat is quite soft. While it feels great on short rides in my neighborhood, it results in a numb posterior within an hour of riding the bike, requiring frequent stops. The weight distribution again exacerbates this. I have recently started using the air cushion seats and this has made a huge difference.
4. Nature of the engine – the 220 cruise’s engine was borrowed from pulsar 220F, and I do not find this engine “cruiserish”. The low-end torque is below average, and one has to be in the right gear or else the bike starts knocking.
5. Some minor issues –
   1. Has only one trip meter in a digital unit!
   2. The chrome portion on the fuel tank reflects badly in rider's eyes, specifically between 11 AM to 12 PM
   3. The front windscreen vibrates at higher speeds
   4. The rear tire size and spoke wheels mean you cannot fill air on some of the pumps. Wherever there is a metal rod near the nozzle, the attendant cannot correctly attach it to the tire valve due to incorrect angle
   5. Has tube type tires
   6. Gives me cold start issues even if it's ridden on a regular basis

It might seem like I hate my bike but that is not the case. It is very enjoyable to ride this on good highways and the bike is very stable at 80 – 90 speeds. Vibrations are within acceptable limits at these speeds as well and I have had 40+ mileage on this irrespective of my riding style. However, I have realized that the issues I have with my bike are because of the style of this bike, not the bike itself. I did get to experience this type of bike, and for that, I do not regret my decision.

[KedarB]

Now coming to what I am looking for in a new bike?

1. Touring friendly – should have plenty of luggage options and related accessories
2. Comfortable ride – stable on highway. Will never do off roads/trail riding as a sport but reasonably comfortable on bad/broken roads
3. Upright riding position. Comfortable rider triangle – no cruiser (lean back) and no to sports/street nakeds (lean forward)
4. Comfortable seats. Ability to stand and ride - Again, Himalayan/X-Pulse like abilities are not what I desire so it would be good to have but it won’t swing my decision
5. Comfortable crushing speeds between 80 to 110 – bike should not vibrate excessively or feel strained at these speeds
6. Reliable and serviceable in long term – I plan to use the bike for 10 to 15 years and will prefer one of the more popular models for it having higher chances of spare part availability and aftermarket support in the long term. Of-course, it also needs to be reliable overall
7. Budget around 2.5 lakh ballpark – should be comfortably under 3 And I want to keep some budget available for purchasing luggage and some riding gear (have collected some already), hence 2.5L

Good to haves –

1. Pillion comfort. Given my experience with Avenger, I do not have high hopes of my wife really using the pillion seat enough to make a difference, and I do not intend to carry any other pillion, so this is just a good to have
2. Timeless design and character. Don’t want to get bored of it 5 years down the line
3. Torquey nature. I know one can get used to any type of engine character and gearing, but I have evolved to prefer the torquey, easy-going nature in my automobiles and that is why and how I drive my Crysta as well

My intended usage pattern, in the order of preference –

1. < 300 KM one day rides or overnight rides on weekends, probably 3-4 times a quarter
2. 7 long rides to – leh-ladakh circuit, spiti-zanskar circuit, HP, UT, NE, RJ+GJ, Kanyakumari over its lifetime, probably in the first 10 years of its life with me. These are all part of my bucket list and I'd really like to believe I get to do this in the next 10 years. When that happens, I want this bike to be ready for this
3. 1 – 2 times per week office commute in Pune traffic and a couple more errand / grocery shopping trips to core areas

While this usage pattern and its priority order is what I aspire to do. I also have the Innova Crysta which we bought for road-tripping. There is only so much one can do on weekends. And life does find a way to put a spanner in the works. So, I am aware that the order of this usage pattern could change. But I am going to keep a positive outlook towards my abilities to execute all of them, sooner or later.

Now coming down to the options I have shortlisted, that I feel fit the criterions listed above. I can divide these in two broad categories –

1. Adventure Tourers – RE Himalayan, RE Scram, Hero X-Pulse, KTM 250 Adventure
2. Retro Classics – RE Classic 350, Honda CB350

Let me start by eliminating a few options from the above list –

KTM 250 Adventure – this is technologically far superior to other RE options and is also much quicker. The digital dash has plenty of information, the bike can cruise above 100 easily, is light weight too. So why the elimination? – it is too hyper. Let me elaborate on this. The 250 duke engine is over square, high revving, high compression engine. Owners complain of lack of low-end torque below 4K RPM. Rider needs to work hard to extract all that performance (which can be rewarding to someone who is looking for that). However, I am looking for a slightly torquey and relaxed cruising nature in my next bike and this goes against KTMs USPs. While I like the modern looks and technologies on offer, for this one reason, this bike is out. The seat height also intimidates me a little bit (I am 172 CM tall to be precise).



Hero X-Pulse 200 4V – this was one of the top contenders in my mind and the practical and VFM nature of the bike appeals to the practical middle-class person in me. However, the experience it offers through its 200CC engine is very similar to what I already have with my current bike. So, the only thing I would be upgrading is the cruiser rider triangle to an ADV based upright riding position and plush suspension. I admit that is the biggest issue I have with my current bike. But since I will be taking a depreciation hit, I am looking for something more. I have also evolved since the time when I was looking for Impulse and X-Pulse only does a +1 on that. People in my circles are not satisfied with Hero’s service, that too in a city like Pune. I also suspect that I will outgrow or get bored of this bike rather quickly. And its biggest USP, the off-roading and trail riding, is something I will never use. For this reason, this bike is out. (Though, I have to admit it keeps coming back to haunt me at nights)

Pic credit - Bikewale

RE Himalayan – the bike is almost as old as my ownership period of the Avenger, it has had multiple periodic upgrades, each being described as a significant improvement over the earlier model. Yet, it is still improving. Makes you think how bad it was to start with. I had a short test ride on this in a small lane behind RE showroom and found it a little cumbersome to maneuver. Riders are still reporting issues with its cone set and the bike seem to require constant upkeep. Also, the Himalayan, as a platform, is older than the 650 twins and much more so than the superb 350 J series. Its end-of-life is very near, and it could get discontinued after the 450 LC platform launches. Even on the showroom floor, the quality of 350 J series bikes feels noticeably better than the Himalayan. Found its engine unrefined and gearbox clunky, compared to the J Series bikes. And similar to X-Pulse, its biggest USP of off-roading is something I will never use. For the lack of confidence in its longevity and the lower (REs of yore) quality, this bike is out

Pic credit - Bikewale

Honda CB 350 – had a very short test ride and found the bike to be very refined and well built. It is very similar to the classic 350 reborn, yet does a plus one on every little aspect - 1 BHP more, 2 NM more torque at 1K less RPM, slightly more refined, slightly higher cruising speed, slightly lower weight, slightly more info in the digital readout, lighter clutch, slipper clutch, traction control. Also comes with the promise of Honda’s quality and reliability. The Honda and the Toyota will make the perfect JAP garage to ride out the IC apocalypse. Why is it part of the elimination list then? I think it's too clinical and lacks soul. That’s a very cliched statement but I don’t know how else to describe it. Since Classic and CB are so similar, I am comparing these two with each other, and here, the classic just feels more special to ride and to look at. And all those +1s that Honda pulls on the classic are not significant enough to ignore this point. There are also other idiosyncrasies with it – the gearing is unusually tall. I think Honda did it to make it more fuel efficient and provide higher comfortable cruising speeds. Within city limits, its practically a 4-speed bike like my splendor. The service center is also far away from my home and the options are limited (Only 2 in a city like Pune, and the 2nd one is in a different RTO region even though its largely identified as Pune). So, if I pick Retro classics category, then I would prefer the classic 350 so very slightly over the CB for my kind of usage. The classic also has other set of advantages which I will come to in a bit. For this small and cliched reason, the CB is out

Pic credit - Honda

Other notable mentions, that did not make the shortlist but were briefly considered.

Royal Enfield Meteor 350 - The choice between the Meteor and its sibling, the classic, was very easy. The cruiser rider triangle was the deal breaker here. Though, I have to admit that the riding position is not as bad as the Avenger,

and it does look good! specially in this matt green color!

Pic credit - Royal Enfield

Suzuki V-Strom 250 SX - This gave me a DeJa'Vu (very strong Bajaj AS 200 vibes), given how it was derived from its street naked sibling the Gixxer 250. Like Bajaj did at that time, Suzuki appears to have carried the Gixxer 250s chassis, engine and suspension as is. Reviews talked about its buzzy nature above 6K RPM and DBhpial neil.jericho's vibration issue related updates (Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250) meant that I preferred the KTM 250 ADV over the V-Strom SX. I also found it difficult to get a test ride of this bike, so it has never made it to the shortlist.

Pic credit - Bikewale

[KedarB]

This leaves me with the two REs – Scram 411 and Classic 350.

Scram is literally a Himalayan with a smaller friendlier front wheel (all other changes are aesthetic) and has the same set of negatives that I listed for the Himalayan in my post above. And for the platform longevity and refinement alone, I should not consider the scram 411. The only reason it is still part of the shortlist is my fascination with the adventure tourer segment and the attributes it comes with, namely the long travel suspension, abuse friendly build and long-distance touring comfort over any kind of surface. And Scram also has a long stroke torquey motor that Royal Enfields are famous for, albeit in a less refined form compared to classic (my personal experience during short test rides). I like the looks of the Himalayan better than the Scram but the scram feels more practical for my kind of usage, hence it sits here. However, if I end up picking the adv-tourer category, I may pick either Himalayan or Scram.

Pic credit - Bikewale

So let me now come to the bike that is currently at the top of my list, the Classic 350 –


Here is what I liked about it

• Looks amazing to me and has a timeless, classic design. Something I will never get bored of
  
• Has a refined enough engine and part and perceived quality that is good and comes very close to the Honda CB 350
• Very refined gearbox. Very clicky and positive feel to it
• I did two test rides of the classic and I really liked the ride feel of the bike. One can really feel the torque from low down, and you can upshift quickly and cruise comfortably at 50+ in top gear. The bike has a very calming effect (at least for me)
• Its very stable on the highway. I tried 80+ speeds, riding two up, on the mum-Bangalore highway and the bike was very stable
  
• In the same test ride, the bike’s ride quality felt very good (again two up) on the bad roads I could encounter on the service roads besides the highway. This was at slower speeds though
• The seats are really comfortable, and I liked the riding position a lot. Even the rear seat got a thumbs-up from my wife.
• Comes with option for tubeless tires
• Has a very good halogen headlight
• I find the flexibility of removing the pillion seat and converting the bike into a sort of a bobber look very appealing. It looks good without the rear seat, yet has the option of adding it back when you need it
  
• Given its straight exhaust and years of use as a tourer of choice, plenty of luggage options are available
• Has a USB charging port as standard. The small digital readout has two trip meters and a Trip F. Shows a clock too. I like the friendly placement of the "i" button that can be used to scroll through and set/reset the trip meters
• Comes with the Royal Enfield ecosystem. RE has masterfully build its brand and the RE brotherhood promises access to a lot of active riding communities (How significant is this point?)
  

All pics credit Royal Enfield

What I did not like –

• The bike is heavy and feels heavy at parking speeds. This is especially after coming from the Avenger
• In certain RPM regions, the mirrors do vibrate a little.
• The performance is sub-par. While the in-gear acceleration is brisk and it can reach 80 quick enough, it gets a little slow to accelerate above this speed. 90 to 100 still feels comfortable, but there isn't enough left in the engine to overtake anyone beyond these speeds. I am not looking for comfortable cruising speeds that are higher than this but if the engine had the capability, it would have made overtakes on highways that much easier.
• I would have liked if the fuel tank was 15 liters, similar to meteor
• While this should not matter, but the classic or the “Bullttt” does come with a lot of preconceived notions in people’s minds about the bike and its rider. Honestly, this should not matter to me
• It's not an ADV/Tourer per se. does not have the longer travel suspension or the freedom to thrash over broken road surfaces
  

So really, what this “which bike” query (or the rambling) comes down to is – does the classic 350 fit most of my requirements well enough or should I be sticking to an adv/tourer kind of bike while adjusting to their negative points (negative according to me, specifically in the options present in the market right now)? This has been going on in my head for well over a year. Yes, I tend to overthink things. I keep going in circles between X-Pulse -> KTM Adv 250 -> Himalayan/Scram -> Classic/CB and back to X-Pulse again. However, I have tried to break this cycle down to the last two Royal Enfield bikes.

I am going to try and breakdown the confusion I have in my mind. The first thing is, why does the Adventurer tourer category appeal to me? I have already mentioned that I will never ride off-roads by choice or hunt for trails as a sport. But an adventure tourer that is designed to do that could also keep you comfortable on bad, potholed road surfaces that are aplenty in our country. This PowerDrift podcast by Shumi would probably explain this much better than I ever could -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p49WIyla_cQ

This really resonates with what I was thinking even 6 years back and why I keep getting attracted to this category of bikes, even though current set of bikes (Himalayan/Scram/Adv 250) themselves are not at the top of my list, and IMO, are not complete as an ADV tourers.

However, given my usage pattern and other constraints, could I utilize the true potential of an adventure tourer, enough for me to justify living with its downsides on a daily basis? mine is after all going to be a one bike garage. And again, given the usage pattern, will something like a classic or CB be that much poorer compared to an adv tourer or could it actually offer the right balance between daily practicality and touring ability?

I am again going to take support from another great video, this time from Mr. Singhee, on his experience riding the Classic 350 reborn with a pack of Himalayan riders in Leh Ladakh -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5YiA8-0ITo

This and whatever I could experience from the test rides has led me to these conclusions -

• I feel, 80% of the riding time I will spend on the new bike, the classic should be able to handle it just fine. What it will be understandably poorer at is handling really broken and gravel roads, the kind one would encounter in Leh, Ladakh, Zanskar, Spiti etc. But over its lifetime with me, how many days would this bike be in that environment? Not more than 2-3 weeks collectively over an ownership period of 10 years? AM I RIGHT IN THIS THOUGHT PROCESS?
• Over the short weekend rides, I would do in an around Pune, the classic should be more pleasurable, while being comfortable enough, when compared to the Scram/Himalayan. The broken single lane state B roads one encounters on such rides should be within the classic’s capability spectrum. Again, AM I RIGHT IN THIS THINKING?
• In city, for office commutes, for pleasure rides with wife, the classic should be much better than the Scram/Himalayan, is what I feel. THOUGH I COULD BE WRONG.

Couple of other points that are "for" the classic -

• I think I will be OK with the performance it has on offer. The 0 - 100 acceleration will again largely be similar to Avenger, given similar power to weight ratios. However, it should offer better tractability and in gear performance owing to its long stroke torquey engine. Which is the kind of performance gains I am looking for.
• In all of my shortlisted options, with the exception of KTM 250 ADV, all bikes will have a comfortable cruising speed between 90 to 100. This is only slightly more than the Avenger. Even in my car, I am usually between 90 to 110 while cruising on highways. I have grown to prefer slow buildup of speeds and like to ride/drive the wave of torque that the big Toyota diesel offers. I never miss the fact that, overall, it is a slower car compared to some of the modern turbo petrols I could have purchased for lesser money than the Toyota. But I still prefer the Toyota (even though the 7 seats are not a primary need for us). If I extrapolate this, does it mean the torquey breezy nature of the classic is more suitable to my kind of riding?
• I am not a Royal Enfield fanboy, nor was it my childhood dream. At the same time, I do not hate Royal Enfield either. At the time of buying my Avenger, I did not like what RE bikes were offering and their quality levels, so I did not pick them. I do like that now, hence they are part of my shortlist.

Another point to consider is, do I need this bike right now? – short answer to that will be a NO. I don’t need it. I WANT it. And these two points as well -

• I would like to ride to Leh/Ladakh in the upcoming riding season and would love it if it is on my own bike
• April 2023 will introduce BS6.2 emission norms in India. While not as significant a jump as it was from BS4 to BS6, it will still introduce new technologies and price hikes and I would like to time my purchase to avoid the hike and potential reliability issues that may come post April 2023

Or will it make more sense to wait for what is in the pipeline and see if it could address some of the issues I have from the current set of ADVs in my budget?

• Wait for Himalayan/Scram 450 LC? – This could come out at the end of 2024, if it's not delayed any further. The LC is also a technological jump for Royal Enfield as a company and a wiser man would wait for 2 more years post launch for things to settle down and UAT to complete.
• Wait for Hero X-Pulse 400? – spotted only once. Given the pace at which Hero progressed on the 200, I have very low hopes for this bike coming out before next two years. Post which, again, a wiser man would wait 1-2 years more.
• Wait for Bajaj-Triumph single cylinders? – these look very close to production and would probably come with a Triumph logo. But this is a new marriage and jumping in it this early seems risky to me

I have been waiting for the light at the end of this pipeline for well over 6 years now and am nowhere closer to what I want. These three options could also take at least 3 more years before I can get them. I will be marrying this bike and for a life expectancy of approx. 15 years, I intend to stay loyal, hence the low-risk appetite. Am I wrong about any of the three upcoming options listed above?

My ideal bike would be a Himalayan, with an engine as good and simple and refined and characterful as the J series engine, with some more power, and a bit less weight, and quality improvements that are closer to the Honda. But I understand that perfect bike may never come. So, is the Classic my best bet right now?

I know this is a very long and verbose post, and if you are with me till now, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your time and attention and would love to hear any for/counter opinions you may have. With help from you guys, I hope to reach a happy conclusion one day and transition this which bike thread into an ownership thread!

PS: While I was writing this in the assembly section, another insightful podcast landed from the author of the two videos I have linked above. My line of thinking about the adv tourer category and the current set of ADVs matches with the thoughts expressed in this video, which is great! But it has further increased the confusion in my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-o9ObV3gs

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[sukiwa]

Originally Posted by KedarB

Another point to consider is, do I need this bike right now? – short answer to that will be a NO. I don’t need it. I WANT it.

If you want a bike, get it now. Don't wait for upcoming models.

Things that look odd: Your shortlist has RE bikes and you are expecting performance from those 2 models. Performance oriented REs are 650 twins, however not part of your list. Lightweight RE, Hunter 350, won't work for you on highways.

And these two points as well -

• I would like to ride to Leh/Ladakh in the upcoming riding season and would love it if it is on my own bike
• April 2023 will introduce BS6.2 emission norms in India. While not as significant a jump as it was from BS4 to BS6, it will still introduce new technologies and price hikes and I would like to time my purchase to avoid the hike and potential reliability issues that may come post April 2023

Don't buy a bike with just a ride in mind, even your Avenger can make that Leh-Ladakh road-trip. You can also rent RE Himalayan from same region and fulfill your ADV riding experience.
Price increase due to BS6.2 won't be more than 10-15%.

[KedarB]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Things that look odd: Your shortlist has RE bikes and you are expecting performance from those 2 models. Performance oriented REs are 650 twins, however not part of your list. Lightweight RE, Hunter 350, won't work for you on highways.

Originally Posted by KedarB

Couple of other points that are "for" the classic -

• I think I will be OK with the performance it has on offer. The 0 - 100 acceleration will again largely be similar to Avenger, given similar power to weight ratios. However, it should offer better tractability and in gear performance owing to its long stroke torquey engine. Which is the kind of performance gains I am looking for.
• In all of my shortlisted options, with the exception of KTM 250 ADV, all bikes will have a comfortable cruising speed between 90 to 100. This is only slightly more than the Avenger. Even in my car, I am usually between 90 to 110 while cruising on highways. I have grown to prefer slow buildup of speeds and like to ride/drive the wave of torque that the big Toyota diesel offers. I never miss the fact that, overall, it is a slower car compared to some of the modern turbo petrols I could have purchased for lesser money than the Toyota. But I still prefer the Toyota (even though the 7 seats are not a primary need for us). If I extrapolate this, does it mean the torquey breezy nature of the classic is more suitable to my kind of riding?

This may have come out wrong from my posts, but I am not looking for performance gains in terms of 0 to 100 times. I would like a more tractable and torquier engine. And I do understand that the two REs I shortlisted will offer similar performance to the Avenger I already have (Just quoting the relevant portion of my post)

on your suggestion for renting the Himalayan.

[Senotrius]

10-15 years of ownership - this point with respect to spare parts only the Royal Enfield 350 can match your expectations. Personally I would choose the Honda if the ownership was for 5-6 years. Or under 10. Who knows if the cb350 will be discontinued down the line like their famous cbr250. Honda does it all the time. They don't exactly upgrade their bike models over the years to match competition. Example,the cbr250-great at time of launch,superb bike but failed to catch up with competition after a few years down the line leading to eventual downfall.

To be fair,royal Enfield also doesn't innovate as much but then they have continuosly selling model lines since decades.

[rajeevsulu]

I own a Highness 350 and am very happy with it. Looking at your requirements, I would suggest the Interceptor 650.Lovely power would enable you to maintain decent highway speeds without stressing out the engine. It can do everything, period. Test ride one and take a call.

[Torino]

Originally Posted by KedarB

However, whatever I buy now, I would want to hold on to it for the next 15 years. So, this bike is going to take me through my middle ages and hopefully ride out the apocalypse that IC engined machines face in this and the next decade....I want to spend my time and money on experiences, not on acquiring material things in an endless cycle of upgrades...Another point to consider is, do I need this bike right now? – short answer to that will be a NO. I don’t need it. I WANT it.

I think you have done fair amount of research & experience on two-wheels. Just go ahead and buy what you like. I'm sure you will connect better with the motorcycle that you like and have only good experience across various terrains rather than going by specs sheet & recommendation. My only suggestion is, if you decide to buy the RE Classic then choose the Chrome Bronze/Red, such a beauty!

[KedarB]

Originally Posted by rajeevsulu

Looking at your requirements, I would suggest the Interceptor 650.Lovely power would enable you to maintain decent highway speeds without stressing out the engine. It can do everything, period. Test ride one and take a call.

Originally Posted by Torino

I think you have done fair amount of research & experience on two-wheels. Just go ahead and buy what you like. I'm sure you will connect better with the motorcycle that you like and have only good experience across various terrains rather than going by specs sheet & recommendation. My only suggestion is, if you decide to buy the RE Classic then choose the Chrome Bronze/Red, such a beauty!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I will give the interceptor a try. Only reason I did not include it is because it is a bit out of my budget.

@Torino, I see you have a 31K run Interceptor. Is it too stiff at slow speeds? how's the heat management, does it get very hot?

[NEMatters]

You are already quite clear on your needs, I think you should go ahead and buy the one you liked the most. You can't go wrong with the classic 350.

I was in a similar dilemma between classic & CB 350, for me the CB 350 won it by a thin margin. And I am happy with it.

If you need more power, the Interceptor does makes a case for itself, but ease of riding in the city, mileage & practicality may get a hit while the performance would get the boost.

Test ride and choose one

[srkriz26]

Why not try Yezdi Scrambler and Adventurer? While Adventurer is similar to RE Himalayan, the platform could prove to be stable. The only concern with Yezdi could be longevity. While bikes will last for years, it is the companies that should extend support. If you can get a good mechanic, that problem could be long sorted. I still see 20-30-year-old Jawas running on the road, and I myself was an RX owner.

[Torino]

Originally Posted by KedarB

@Torino, I see you have a 31K run Interceptor. Is it too stiff at slow speeds? how's the heat management, does it get very hot?

Not sure if you mean stiff suspension, well the suspension is soft which can be modified to your liking with heavier fork oil & aftermarket suspension kits etc. 30 minutes into heavy city traffic ride and the engine gets noticeably warm, stutters and lags below 2000 rpm. The engine behaves normal only after you switch off and let it cool for 10-15 mins. Basically this low tech air/oil cooled 650cc engine hates prolonged stop-go traffic.

[PreludeSH]

I am in the same boat. Want to buy an RE and can decide between Meteor and the Classic. The Meteor is easier to drive and moving it front and back manually is also easier.

I dont know why RE is putting so much weight on their REs with no matching performance numbers.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by KedarB

Suzuki V-Strom 250 SX - This gave me a DeJa'Vu (very strong Bajaj AS 200 vibes), given how it was derived from its street naked sibling the Gixxer 250. Like Bajaj did at that time, Suzuki appears to have carried the Gixxer 250s chassis, engine and suspension as is.

The VStrom is nothing like AS200. AS200 was just a fairing slapped on NS200 with zero difference. While the VStrom is a completely different bike compared to Gixxer 250, except for headlamp, engine and exhaust design. Don't go by photos, Take a look in showroom, It is a much BIGGER bike in person. This is a misconception made popular by the lazy reviewers who can't even read the specsheet right.

The chassis has a new a sub frame, the seats, front/rear suspension, front/rear brakes, footpegs, front wheel, tyres etc. are all completely new and are engineered for ADV touring and basic off roading. The ground clearance difference is massive. You can find the detailed differences in my earlier post in, link => https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post5462923 (Team-BHP 2-Wheeler of the Year, 2022. Edit: It's the Royal Enfield Hunter 350!)

Originally Posted by KedarB

I also found it difficult to get a test ride of this bike, so it has never made it to the shortlist.

Not sure why you are not getting a test ride, every Suzuki dealer has a test ride bike available anytime here in Bangalore and offers are always running.

Originally Posted by KedarB

Reviews talked about its buzzy nature above 6K RPM. and DBhpial neil.jericho's vibration issue related updates (Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250) meant that I preferred the KTM 250 ADV over the V-Strom SX.

There is no buzz after 6k rpm, infact the engine pulls like a locomotive after 5500rpm with absolute smoothness in my experience, like knife through butter in 6th gear. Only lower gears have some minute buzz at higher rpms. IMO It is the most refined bike in the segment, compared to KTM adv250, Himalayan, yezdi adv etc. I test rode them all before buying VStrom.

The thread talks about 'early vibrations', but I rented a 14000 kms run VStrom SX before buying mine. There was no vibration issues. Other VStrom owners have not posted any issues so far both here in team-bhp and in the owners group I am part of where few have already completed 9000kms.