[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by masterChief007

Let me tell you my point of view. I am also in dilemma but mostly it's sorted now. I have been a std 350 ci rider, so didn't feel the interceptor too much heavy (it is heavier than my std sure). KTM 390 adv is a very light and tall bike if you are 174 cms or more it wont be an issue.

Actually, I do like the 390 Adv but I am concerned about two issues--the lack of low-end torque. You also say that with 2 up riding the rider needs to be in just the right gear. This is pretty damning, actually. I am thinking of curves that go uphill etc. I am sure it'll be quite tricky to manoeuvre through those. On the other hand, on a bike like the RE Classic 350, it must be much easier.
Second, I've never heard any high praise for the seating. Even for a single rider, I am not sure if the seat comfort and the riding triangle are going to make for a comfortable riding experience.

The problem with interceptor for a solo first timer in high altitude is falling off and breakdowns and slushy/rocky patches. This being a heavy bike in slush etc you may need help from fellow riders in pushing it through (since I might end up doing solo this help won't be available to me).

KTM however if required I might be able to shove it around myself without anyone helping. If I would have been group-riding I would have just chosen the interceptor 650, but 80% chance is there that I will have to do solo i will go for the KTM for now.

Those are good points, and I hadn't really thought of these issues. Indeed, with a full complement of luggage plus a pillion a fallen bike will be tough to pick up. The KTM should be easier, but then there other bikes in that weight category.
At this point, I am also thinking of the upcoming Std. 350 Bullet J series. Maybe it'll be much lighter than the Classic 350.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

4. KTM 390: Nice bike on the highway with electronic aids but in hills with 2 up riding you will have to keep it in correct RPM band to extract power. Suspension is stiffer than Himalayan which would be more evident on bad roads while riding alone. Too much electronics and limited after sales support in remote area is a concern

Yeah, this is what concerns me about the KTM. I seriously doubt it'll make for an enjoyable and relaxed cruising experience. And certainly the sales and support are an issue whether one ignores it or not.
Just reading your suggestion about needing to keep it in the correct RPM range is making me lean towards the RE Classic 350 and that family of engines.
Btw, would you say the same about the Honda CB350? While it has a lot of low-end torque, it has tall gearing meaning it needs to be constantly kept revved up to deliver the required performance.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

I'd have to say that a heavy bike is manageable if it has enough power. Case in point my old TB 500, which I was comfortable picking up if dropped, and maneuvering out of tight parkings, especially if I used the engine to help. I also did the Dehradun Ghar on a TB 350 with total load of self and pillion at 250 kgs, and yes it felt underpowered, but not too heavy. I think it's more a matter of getting used to the feel and weight, and as long as you're in decent shape, lifting the bike isn't so much of an issue. The Himalayan is extremely comfortable though, especially with the touring seat. I've yet to drive the 390 Adv, but I think I'll quite like that one too. However, given the vast price difference, I'd suggest go with the one that fits your use case better, with the Himalayan for mountain touring as it has better pull in the twisties, and the KTM 390 Adv for straighter road where the speed is more important and you don't have to change gears as much.

Thanks. Would you say you felt difficulty going uphill on most sections on the TB 350?
For now, the choice is between the Honda CB350 and the Classic 350. Do you think the Classic 350 with it's newer engine will have a relatively easier time going uphill in the mountains along with a pillion and a decent amount of luggage (3 panniers and one tank bag)?

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by kozhissery

But I have done few trips to mountains viz to Leh/Ladakh/Bhutan in TB350, Nepal/Tibet in TB500 and Spiti on V-Strom 650.
These bikes are heavy and if you tip over (have done it a lot of times) it is very difficult to bring it up, so riding single might be a challenge in remote locations.

Actually, I am not planning on any serious off-roading. I have in mind situations where the roads may be narrow (such as when you off on to a branch of the main road). So, mostly conditions that you will encounter while going to small places in the mountains.
Can you share under what conditions did you drop off these heavy bikes? Water-crossings, gravel, narrow roads etc.?

In all other trips that I've made, my team mates either had the same bike (RE) or a bigger bike.
I've felt at ease on V-Strom than other bikes, may be due to better torque or may be more experience.

Yes, but what about banking a heavy bike loaded with luggage? Or just handling gravel or other imperfect road conditions on the side of a main road?
Going by that the Classic 350 or the Honda CB350 should do well. Plus, they are simpler engines and air-cooled. That much less chance of issues cropping up in the mountains.

From my point of view, if you are not planning for a proper off-roading, bigger bikes would be easier as the so called off-roading in all the above-mentioned places (Leh/Spiti) would hardly come to 1% of total distance traveled.

Not at all. I am mostly thinking of sticking to the main roads. But I also want to not hesitate in exploring and going off the main roads. I think I am a bit unsure about how a fully weighted bike will handle gravel or narrow roads.
My overall sense is that the heavier bikes will likely carry the weight of two passengers plus panniers much better. And you seem to be confirming this.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by SidharthaN

What is needed in the mountains in low and mid range torque, loads of it to pull seamlessly. The UCEs (have not ridden the J series) just keep going at consistent speeds without much gear changes, even if loaded like a truck.

That's a strong claim to make! I imagine that the J series will be much better in all senses. I have to say I am impressed if you say that they have enough torque even when fully loaded up.
I definitely feel I am looking for something like that at the moment. The idea is for the bike to disappear, i.e. for you to stop noticing and worrying about gear changes or other things.
I think the REs can be a bit boring but as you so suggest strongly there is no substitute to an RE just getting out of the way and letting you notice the world around you

Other bikes do not produce that amount of torque.

Umm. The Honda CB 350 is also on my mind. In fact, it's the only real choice for me as compared to the Classic 350, or better still, the upcoming Std 350 J series.
Is there really no other manufacturer making bikes with as good a low-end torque as the REs?

As far as off-road, no road situation the RE trundles through. The weight keeps it going if you are in the right gear, and know to keep the correct momentum.
For your requirement get a Meteor. Your pillion will be comfortable and the semi cruiser stance will keep you relaxed. Classic will be better in managing water crossing etc because of the stance, but one can make the Meteor do the same once you get a hold of it. Spares, service will not be an issue.

Actually, I am leaning towards the Classic 350 for its looks, overall riding position, and the fact that I can use it in any condition. Sure, it may not excel at anything, but then that's what a standard bike was always about.
In fact, I am even leaning towards getting the Std 350 J series once it launched. It may even be a little lighter than the Classic 350.
I will, however, do a proper test-ride of the Meteor before finalising my choice.

If you are into older REs get a TB500 or any 500. You can say goodbye to all doubts of carrying pillion and luggage in mountains. The 500 UCE will keep going.

Of course! But you know, I would want to go back even more, and to the CI 350 or 500s!
But then I have to think about how much time and effort I can give on the maintenance, not to mention the obvious fact that in this age, it's unlikely that the CI 350 or 500 will have good service support up in the mountains.

Providing suggestions based on my current ownership of a TB350 at 1,27,000 kms on the odo.

Congrats on putting on so many miles! Did you have any mechanical engine related issues in all these 1,27,000 kms? In the mountains or otherwise.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by 2wheelsvaga

Thanks. Would you say you felt difficulty going uphill on most sections on the TB 350?
For now, the choice is between the Honda CB350 and the Classic 350. Do you think the Classic 350 with it's newer engine will have a relatively easier time going uphill in the mountains along with a pillion and a decent amount of luggage (3 panniers and one tank bag)?

With a pillion load of 200+ kg, yes, absolutely. The 350 wasn't enough, and I had to keep urging it up slopes. For that I definitely needed the 500, and that was good, but it still needed more care with the gears than normal. The new Classic produces about 2 more horses and I think three more torques, so I'd still be hesitant to do a fully loaded mountain ride with it. My advice would be to look for something with more than 35 N-m of torque, if you plan to do two-up fully loaded mountain touring. The Dominar should fit if you stretch the budget a little, but between the Classic and the Highness I would say go for the Highness.

[masterChief007]

Hi for 2 up riding you can safely remove 390 adv from ur list. also if doing soft roading the std 350 or the classic or the Honda highness are all good choices. But I would say go for the 650 interceptor if you can plan/pay for it. it blows away the other bikes in engine refinement and gear shifts. I was amazed doing the test ride and felt it better than even the Honda bike !! finally rent the bikes for a day go to the nearest hill and test it out yourself with pillion and luggage etc. Honda has the service center scarcity issue though, but is compensated by their image of a reliable bike.

[Bhupesh_2628]

Originally Posted by 2wheelsvaga

I will, however, do a proper test-ride of the Meteor before finalising my choice.

Meteor 350 is a good bike but due to forward positioned footpegs (as compared to neutrally placed in Classic 350), you wouldn't be able to stand on the footpegs to avoid speed breakers, off-roads, and bad roads. You can't adjust your back/upper body by lifting yourself up by standing on footpegs while riding. It's a cruiser style bike.

You can refer below thread where this issue has been discussed extensively:

Yet another middle-aged guy looking to buy a motorcycle

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

I'll keep it fairly simple, weight is an important factor yes, but it comes into play mostly when you're trying to pick up a tipped over bike . I would focus more on the power-weight ratio for the touring aspect. The Himalayan, as detailed in my latest post on my thread about my Ooty Ride can easily lug itself up steep slopes with a pillion and full load and is supremely comfy as well. But you will not (Even I did not) find it fast by any means and did miss some more power on tap. This is where the RE Interceptor or the 390 ADV Shines IMO. The latter may lack the low end grunt, but has a buttload of power to compensate. The inty's engine is beautiful but of course, you can't mount as much luggage easily.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

With a pillion load of 200+ kg, yes, absolutely. The 350 wasn't enough, and I had to keep urging it up slopes.

Just so there's no confusion I meant a rider of 90 kg, a pillion of 70 kg, and two side panniers of 20 kgs each making for a total of 200 kgs.
Did you actually have to ask your pillion to get off the motorcycle every time you came steep slopes?
Or, was it just that the bike pulled but with great effort and you had to keep it in first gear?

For that I definitely needed the 500, and that was good, but it still needed more care with the gears than normal. The new Classic produces about 2 more horses and I think three more torques, so I'd still be hesitant to do a fully loaded mountain ride with it.

I see. I saw a video of this couple of had done a Ladakh trip on their fully loaded Meteor. They seemed to have not had any problems with loading up. But then these things can often be quite subjective so it's possible they had a pretty low bar as to what qualifies as good performance.

My advice would be to look for something with more than 35 N-m of torque, if you plan to do two-up fully loaded mountain touring. The Dominar should fit if you stretch the budget a little, but between the Classic and the Highness I would say go for the Highness.

That's interesting. Why the Honda? It's torque is not that much more than the RE J series engines. Moreover, it has tall gearing. I imagine that will complicate matters quite a bit, with the rider needing to be in the right gear all the time.
Speaking of the Dominar, what would you say to the KTM 390 adv? From what I know it's the only one that has more than 35 Nm of torque in this engine size. But then I think that also has issues with not much of low-end torque. I wonder if that will also not create issues while going up mountain roads on a full load.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by masterChief007

Hi for 2 up riding you can safely remove 390 adv from ur list.

Interesting. Can you elaborate? The 390 adv has a high performance engine and is in a good weight category, meaning it is not too heavy like the Classic 350.

also if doing soft roading the std 350 or the classic or the Honda highness are all good choices.

By soft roading you mean "hard roads?" You mean it as the counterpart of proper off-roading?
Again, it's interesting to hear you recommend the Std 350, Classic, or the Honda.
They all have much less power and less sophisticated suspension than the KTM, so why do you recommend these over the KTM?

But I would say go for the 650 interceptor if you can plan/pay for it. it blows away the other bikes in engine refinement and gear shifts. I was amazed doing the test ride and felt it better than even the Honda bike !!

Budget is not the biggest issue here. But the Int 650 seat is horrible. And I've heard of the infamous design faults of the footpeg placements. Overall, I find it a too heavy bike, but then I may be wrong and it may perform well even on unpaved mountain roads.

finally rent the bikes for a day go to the nearest hill and test it out yourself with pillion and luggage etc. Honda has the service center scarcity issue though, but is compensated by their image of a reliable bike.

Yeah, renting will be great except I don't know of any reliable rental places in Delhi or Bombay. The other thing I noticed--with for instance test-ride bikes--is that they are generally not kept in good shape. So, I wonder how helpful a rental test will be.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by Bhupesh_2628

Meteor 350 is a good bike but due to forward positioned footpegs (as compared to neutrally placed in Classic 350), you wouldn't be able to stand on the footpegs to avoid speed breakers, off-roads, and bad roads. You can't adjust your back/upper body by lifting yourself up by standing on footpegs while riding. It's a cruiser style bike.

You can refer below thread where this issue has been discussed extensively:

Yet another middle-aged guy looking to buy a motorcycle

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. Yeah, I am pretty sure I don't want a cruiser style bike. The issues with posture and seating position are quite well known. Besides, I am not a fan of the style Meteor. So, there isn't much that could motivate me to check that out.
I am mostly debating between the Classic 350 (or even better the soon to be launched Std 350 J series) and the Honda CB 350.
I have to say though that I am recently toying with the idea of getting a KTM 390 adv. But then I don't know if it'll be able to manage a pillion with two panniers.

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyTangoFox

I'll keep it fairly simple, weight is an important factor yes, but it comes into play mostly when you're trying to pick up a tipped over bike . I would focus more on the power-weight ratio for the touring aspect. The Himalayan, as detailed in my latest post on my thread about my Ooty Ride can easily lug itself up steep slopes with a pillion and full load and is supremely comfy as well. But you will not (Even I did not) find it fast by any means and did miss some more power on tap. This is where the RE Interceptor or the 390 ADV Shines IMO. The latter may lack the low end grunt, but has a buttload of power to compensate. The inty's engine is beautiful but of course, you can't mount as much luggage easily.

Helpful comments. Yeah, if the REs were in the 170 to 180 kg weight category I might have already finalised my choice by now.
It's interesting that you praise the Himalayan here. It does look like it could fulfil most of what I want from the motorcycle. But then it's reliability issues are well-known. So, it might just make sense to actually wait for the LC 450.
I think I am not keen on getting a 650 cc engine at this point. I am not looking for high performance, but do want to have confidence in my bike with a full load of pillion and luggage. Hence, my interest in the RE Classic or upcoming Std 350 and the Honda CB 350.
I am now even considering the KTM 390 adv but I am not sure how comfortable the pillion will be and how much of a detracting factor the lack of low-end torque will be.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by 2wheelsvaga

Did you actually have to ask your pillion to get off the motorcycle every time you came steep slopes?
Or, was it just that the bike pulled but with great effort and you had to keep it in first gear?

Yes to both. The bike really had to be throttled hard in first on the steeper slopes, and at one point my pillion did have to get off. I thought there was also a top box in your luggage, sorry.

Originally Posted by 2wheelsvaga

That's interesting. Why the Honda? It's torque is not that much more than the RE J series engines. Moreover, it has tall gearing. I imagine that will complicate matters quite a bit, with the rider needing to be in the right gear all the time.

Mainly because even three torques can make quite a bit of difference, and it's torque is available lower in the rev range than the J-series engine. The tall gearing will actually work in your favour, as it's much better for touring. I don't think that needs to be a concern as such.

Originally Posted by 2wheelsvaga

Speaking of the Dominar, what would you say to the KTM 390 adv? From what I know it's the only one that has more than 35 Nm of torque in this engine size. But then I think that also has issues with not much of low-end torque. I wonder if that will also not create issues while going up mountain roads on a full load.

I suggested the Dominar mainly based on price, since it's vastly cheaper than the KTM, and because of that it's possible you could get used to it. They both have nearly no low-end torque, a high end of 37 N-m, and pillion comfort might be an issue. You're right, you need low end torque for comfortable climbing.

Originally Posted by WhiskeyTangoFox

I'll keep it fairly simple, weight is an important factor yes, but it comes into play mostly when you're trying to pick up a tipped over bike . I would focus more on the power-weight ratio for the touring aspect. The Himalayan, as detailed in my latest post on my thread about my Ooty Ride can easily lug itself up steep slopes with a pillion and full load and is supremely comfy as well. But you will not (Even I did not) find it fast by any means and did miss some more power on tap.

I would say the Himalayan does pull like a donkey though, slowly but surely. Our Bhutan day ride with a total load of nearly 190 kg was easily handled, but you should really get the touring seat for comfort. Pillion should be fine with stops. It isn't fast, but it is relaxing and definitely a hoot. Only on the steep 40 degree slopes did I find it lacking in power.

[BlackMambaXX]

For touring the most important thing is the riders triangle. 390 adv will has slightly rearset footpegs meaning your legs take majority of the brunt.
The classic or tb might feel comfortable initially but over longer distances your lower back will start cursing you.
On the other hand weight is a factor that shouldn’t be the deciding factor after a certain weight all bikes will be heavy to pickup if dropped. I have dropped both the my Himalayan and 390 adv and have struggled to pickup especially at high altitudes.
I would advise ride the bikes for a considerable distance. If possible rent it out for a day and then decide. I loved the 390adv as long as I had it. It was a great highway mile muncher but it on the hills it was hectic due to constant gear shifts and half clutching. Happy motorcycling!