[AulusGabinius]

Hi everyone, after getting the itch to go riding and watching motovlogs on YouTube, I've started looking for a bike. When am I going to buy one? As soon as I can afford it. What will I look for? Well, that's something more detailed to write about:

• Power: I weigh a good 108 - 115, 125 kgs at most, and so do my father and brother. On the rare occasion that we have to travel on the same bike, I'd prefer something that can handle us, a total weight slightly south of 250 kg. To me, that means a power in the 35-45 bhp range.
  
• Torque: For the same reason as above, in the interest of acceleration, I'd like at least 35 N-m, but I'm also looking at the RE 650 twin engine. That actually would be amazing.
  
• Stance: No racers for me. Unfortunately I have abnormally long limbs and a smaller body for my height (6'2"), which leads me to prefer something more relaxed. It was so bad that I could barely change gear on an R15, and felt immediately cramped on a Duke 250. Our current FZ 25 is not ideal, but it's not terrible either. It's comfortable enough that I can ride it for two or three hours while not being used to it before the legs and rear end give up existing. So that limits me to non-racery ADVs & scramblers, roadsters, cruisers, retros and the like. Still a wide field to choose from.

Add to that a budget not exceeding 5L on the road because of middle class mental constraints, and that I'll be keeping this for years, that's the starting line.

Taking these points in mind, I'd say nothing on the market right now fits extremely neatly on all three needs. The ones I really enjoyed and still need to drive and try are:

• KTM Adv 390: Currently IMO the daddy of the entry level ADV segment. Need I say more? Yet to try it though.
• Suzuki V-Strom SX: The baby Strom has a lot going for it as a small ADV tourer, but just a little less power and torque than I'm looking for. Otherwise a solid contender. Yet to try though.
• RE Himalayan & Scram 411: The real workhorse of the entry level ADVs, and right on the money when it comes to the torque. Excellent ergonomics and suspension, and excellent on the highway. Just....not that much power. And the fairing on the Himalayan catches my knees. But the Scram is just a blast, and my current love, which I would book right now for all that and the added manoeuvrability, just that it left me begging for more power on the test ride. I swear, there were tears in my eyes. I rode the Himalayan in Bhutan for a day ride, and it really left me begging for more power on some of the climbs, but the workhorse climbed patiently and calmly. So I'll pass on them too.
• RE J-series bikes: None of them have remotely the power and torque, and I'll consider only the Classic and Meteor, as they are comfortable to me. The Hunter, unfortunately, isn't.
• RE Super Meteor 650: The literal elephant in the room. Tested this out at Nomad Motorcycles in Pimple Saudagar. I'm in love, of course, but on driving it I had second thoughts when the pillion was flung into the air by a smallish speedbreaker. The stance felt a bit more exaggeratedly forward set for my taste, but these are small qualms. But could there be something more fitting on the horizon?
• Honda CB350/300F/300R The Highness worked for me really well on the ergos, but other than that, no. 300F wouldn't be too different from my FZ 25, and the 300R is just a flat no because I don't fit on it. Anything more powerful is just going to be too expensive, but let's see.

But some things on the way might, and those are what I'm looking forward to:

1. RE Shotgun 650: If this is a Thunderbird with a 650 engine, which is what the spy shots look like to me, then this what I thought the Super Meteor isn't.
2. RE Scram 450: Dream come true. A more powerful Scram, let's gooooo!
3. Bajaj-Triumph Roadster & Scrambler 400: More curious about these, could prove some solid competition to the Scram.
4. Hero-Harley: Wild card, who knows what's coming. If it's like the QJ Motor X500, let's see.
5. Hero Xpulse 400: Again, let's see, shall we?
6. Honda CB350 cruiser: Not really following this to be fair. If they put the engine from the 300R, then maybe.

I've also heard some rumours about a Bajaj Avenger 400, but no further news. And that's it for me.

What is everyone here looking forward to, and why?

Mod Note: Going forward, please continue the discussion in the bike's respective threads. Thank you!

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Motorcycle section. Thanks for sharing!

[GhostGrid]

The RE Super Meteor 650 can satisfy your needs; it won't deliver an adrenaline rush but will guarantee a comfortable ride. With high-grade parts and unquestionably superb ergonomics, the build quality is remarkable. Finding a comfortable riding posture is the only challenge. I've observed a lot of individuals having trouble with that forward stance. RE Himalayan & Scram 411 is the alternate choice; it satisfies all of your specifications, but you should double-check the power-to-weight ratio because I'm not confident of it.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by GhostGrid

I've observed a lot of individuals having trouble with that forward stance.

Honestly, I could get used to this really easily, it's just the pillion comfort I'm a little worried about. This feels really nice, but if the Shotgun is going to give me slightly less forward-set pegs, maybe it's worth waiting for.

Originally Posted by GhostGrid

RE Himalayan & Scram 411 is the alternate choice; it satisfies all of your specifications, but you should double-check the power-to-weight ratio because I'm not confident of it.

The Himalayan is 194 kg with 24 PS, and the Scram is 185. So that's a power-to-weight ratio of 123 PS per tonne and nearly 130 PS per tonne. It just doesn't feel enough to me, and especially on the highway. I hit around 90 on the Himalayan and a 100 on the Scram and they just sort of finish accelerating there. Which is why the 450 Scram has me excited.

[GhostGrid]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Honestly, I could get used to this really easily, it's just the pillion comfort I'm a little worried about. This feels really nice, but if the Shotgun is going to give me slightly less forward-set pegs, maybe it's worth waiting for.

I forgot to mention the pillion ride; yes, that's another drawback if somebody is not comfortable. Even I wasn't comfortable when I sat for 50 kilometres.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Which is why the 450 Scram has me excited.

Waiting for the shotgun would be best as per your requirements.

[Axe77]

If I may make a slightly off center suggestion here. For potentially two large riders, you will be well served by a powerful machine, with a plush suspension and one which has decent level components on related aspects like braking as well as well as higher end tech specs.

To this end, perhaps you could also consider a pre-owned Versys 650 / V Strom 650? It will be a clear segment / segment and a half higher, will have more than adequate power, spacious and roomy seating for rider and pillion both combined with a higher segment safety and component spec. I think with a marginal stretch you should be able to get good used examples within the 5.5 - 6L mark.

Of course, in doing so you should be mindful of the increased upkeep costs also that come with such superbikes and make an overall assessment. But I do feel this will be a much better machine to own from all other perspectives. Between the two options above, the Suzuki might be relatively cheaper to maintain, even if its marginally costlier to buy.

From a brand new vehicle perspective, I’d perhaps shortlist the all new Himalayan 450. Going by the current gen Himalayan, it should have a good quality suspension and the new engine will likely hold the requisite grunt to handle two up riding with two heavy men. But this is ultimately conjecture at this stage and we’ll have to wait to see the final product later this year.

I really wouldn’t recommend the KTM 390s - they might be too aggressive for this use case - while the 310 GS will definitely feel underpowered. The interceptor is too small from a comfort standpoint and the Super Meteor perhaps too low on GC for two heavy riders.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

What is everyone here looking forward to, and why?

Personally, the Himalayan 450 and the XPulse 400. Those hold a very high potential to come closer to the optimal ADVs for our market till KTM launches a fresh onslaught of ADVs.

The rest of the market is relatively lukewarm without any rumours to even hazard a guess.

For your situation, I agree with your analysis and would recommend to try the VStrom SX and the 390 Adventure at the earliest.

Good Luck

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Axe77

If I may make a slightly off center suggestion here. For potentially two large riders, you will be well served by a powerful machine, with a plush suspension and one which has decent level components on related aspects like braking as well as well as higher end tech specs.

Precisely! Targeting a real big ADV like the Versys or the V-Strom would definitely be a good idea, and I'll keep an eye out for these. The maintenance costs does have me worried just a little, but since the decision for a motorcycle is a pure heart decision, so maybe it's best to tell the price to go hang.

Originally Posted by Axe77

From a brand new vehicle perspective, I’d perhaps shortlist the all new Himalayan 450.

My thoughts exactly. This should be something truly special, if it lives up to the hype. I'm still cautiously curious about the Bajaj-Triumph scrambler though, if indeed it has a 400cc engine.

Originally Posted by Axe77

I really wouldn’t recommend the KTM 390s - they might be too aggressive for this use case - while the 310 GS will definitely feel underpowered. The interceptor is too small and the Super Meteor perhaps too low on GC for two heavy riders.

The 310 GS was somehow never really on my radar for just not being VFM at all. The Super Meteor would probably have some issues, but I'm hopeful that it might not be the case, and the Shotgun would probably solve that if it was. I'm still going to test the KTM 390 ADv though, just to try it out and be sure that it isn't really for me.

Originally Posted by shancz

Personally, the Himalayan 450 and the XPulse 400. Those hold a very high potential to come closer to the optimal ADVs for our market till KTM launches a fresh onslaught of ADVs.

For your situation, I agree with your analysis and would recommend to try the VStrom SX and the 390 Adventure at the earliest.

Agree completely. Going to try out the 390 Adv and just for good measure, the Dominar 400 (2023 Touring) tomorrow, actually. Thanks!

[shancz]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Agree completely. Going to try out the 390 Adv and just for good measure, the Dominar 400 (2023 Touring) tomorrow, actually.

I completely missed the Dominar. That could work out in your case too.
The reports of the stiff rear on the VStrom SX could also work in your favour to compensate the higher load. Try that too.

[caveman969]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Honestly, I could get used to this really easily, it's just the pillion comfort I'm a little worried about.

The super meteor with the touring seat looks like one of the most comfortable pillion tourers. The shotgun seems to come from a bobber design, so the pillion seat looks kinda tiny.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by caveman969

The super meteor with the touring seat looks like one of the most comfortable pillion tourers. The shotgun seems to come from a bobber design, so the pillion seat looks kinda tiny.

True, the suspension is what is concerning. As I said before, for pillions the shocks are pretty annoying. The Shotgun might have better suspension, but I can live with a smaller seat too.

[pkothak]

Have you looked at new Domainar 400 BS6 second phase version? Which is available in some of the showrooms from April 2023. If your Budget is 5 L, I think it gives most of the features which KTM 390 adventure is offering, of course you would be missing the MTC and other Colorful TFT display etc. But it doesn't miss out any basic features required for an adventure tourer. If we compare the price difference between 390 adventure (not adventure X) and Dominar 400 , there is a 1.2 Lakhs on-road price difference, with that amount you can get some nice essential accessories for your Touring and still save some amount for fuel to run few thousand kilometers. I would strongly recommend to visit your nearby showroom and take a test drive. All the best and happy motoring.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by pkothak

Have you looked at new Domainar 400 BS6 second phase version? Which is available in some of the showrooms from April 2023. If your Budget is 5 L, I think it gives most of the features which KTM 390 adventure is offering, of course you would be missing the MTC and other Colorful TFT display etc. But it doesn't miss out any basic features required for an adventure tourer. If we compare the price difference between 390 adventure (not adventure X) and Dominar 400 , there is a 1.2 Lakhs on-road price difference, with that amount you can get some nice essential accessories for your Touring and still save some amount for fuel to run few thousand kilometers. I would strongly recommend to visit your nearby showroom and take a test drive. All the best and happy motoring.

Dominar is on my radar for a test drive, for sure. However, there are two points against it. My dad actually worked at Bajaj Auto, and an uncle is the lead designer of the Pulsars and the original Dominar. Both have told me that Bajaj bikes will start rattling after a couple of years. It's just a build issue, I suppose. The second point is that the rider triangle seems a tad aggressive, and it might just be a more powerful version of the FZ 25. But I entirely agree that the Dominar is probably the most VFM option of all, the other end of the spectrum than the GS 310 in that respect.

Honestly, I think I could live without power as long as the torque is there. I'm coming from a 2012 TB 500, which had only 27 horses but 41 N-m of torque, giving good low-end punch. Sure, I'd like to cruise faster than it could, but it was also utterly comfortable. So let's see.

[dkaile]

Only after a lot of riding and tasting motorcycles from each and every genre' can you get a insight into what suits you best. It depends upon your age, your height (frame size), your weight, your budget and most of all your level of reflexes and clarity of mind. Learning to adapt is a continuous process. I have owned/reviewed on this forum the Karizma, Himalayan, Kawasaki Ninja 1000, Harley Superlow, Harley Heritage Softail Classic, BMW R1250GSA and our humble Classic 350 REborn. Go through the forum for many such reviews from different mindset of people, then take a informed decision. Last but not the least, do a proper TEST RIDE of each bike that you like. But that can only guide to a bit. Only when you LIVE with a bike for a few months, do you realise if that was the correct choice for you or not.

Happy hunting. Cheers...

[Crank270]

I am pretty much in the same boat. Going to try out ADV 390 and the new Interceptor 650 next week to take a call. I initially had V Strom 650 in my radar but had to drop due to the price as I am not looking for finding a good preowned one in my city.