[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Not necessarily. If an engine was not designed to run on synthetic oil, the chances are it will do more harm than good.

I know exactly what you are saying, but even in medicine, its hard to buck the placebo effect.

Its difficult really to understand the rationale of individual amateur riders from mostly different non automotive walks of life setting out to question and then improve upon something that been worked out by several corporations (bike manufacturer, oil manufacturer, and international validating testing and certifying agencies, and domestic and international regulatory authorities) and the thousands of highly trained professional man-hours that go behind that one sentence in the Manual.

As part of their actual day jobs. Through careers spent in the industry. And not on the internet.

Personally, I was tempted to suggest the use of full synthetic in cases where the OP is embarking on a long multiday tour, wgere the distance exceeds the normal recommended drain interval. In such circumstances, veteran riders of tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of kilometres, here on the forum as well, have found by prior experience that even stopping for a mid tour oil and filter change, air filter clean, and chain slack adjustment, cleaning and lubing and the customary bike wash will eat up half a day, usually a full day worth of proper distance (you'll land up doing 2-300 km instead of your usual 6-800 km).

So instead of losing that time, take along your bare essentials for chain lubing, adjust the slack yourself (teach yourself how), and do not have a mid tour oil change. That is where a long drain oil comes in handy.

But if the engine is not designed for it, I would simply not do it. Live with what tou've bought within its optimum design parameters. Or buy something else.

Cheers, Doc

[adrian]

Originally Posted by ebonho

and the thousands of highly trained professional man-hours that go behind that one sentence in the Manual.


Cheers, Doc

No offense to you Doc, just to point out the professionalism of the individuals preparing the RE manual :

The owner's manual of the 2011 Bullet Standard 350 recommends the mineral engine oil Motul 3000 4T Plus 15 W 50 API, JASO MA with an oil replacement recommended every 6000Kms. I change my oil every 3000kms be it mineral or synthetic and do it myself at home.

And as a bottom note, the longevity of the engine depends on how you properly drain and refill the engine oil, the expertise for which up to now does not exist in RE service centers. They do not properly drain and always overfill the engine oil. Had to do two oil changes at RE service centers as the part of the journey and both service centers messed up in this. Actually from one of the service centers, I had to drain out about 2 litres of oil to get to the recommended oil level.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by adrian

No offense to you Doc, just to point out the professionalism of the individuals preparing the RE manual :
.

Oil recommendations are going to be based on what more or less works for the engine and can be bought by service centres cheapest in bulk.

If they do any more research and extensive customisation of a spec (start from acea a5b5 and build more stringent requirements to check timing chain wear say, in the ford wss m2c913 spec) then it’d turn up as an entirely new, manufacturer specific spec, not a generic “jaso ma 15w50 api sl” which is short for buy the cheapest available engine oil on the market and pour it, it won’t hurt your RE

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by adrian

No offense to you Doc, just to point out the professionalism of the individuals preparing the RE manual

Adrian no offense taken at all. Nowadays with new Bullet fans (not you) I just state my case. Do not get into an argument. If they want to listen, great. If they don't want to listen, I'm not Team BHP's Bullet messiah either. Unpaid and overworked.

I am well aware of Bullet service centers. Except once for fitting of a fly crash guard, that was replaced by Turnrite under warranty because the typical cracks at the lower brackets developed, not one of my 3 Bullet 500s has ever been to an authorized RE service center. Rafiq mamu, God bless his soul, was my Bullet daddy. Till he passed away. After that Doppie went under the covers. Let us see ...

But I do have a healthy respect for the boffins in Madras. They have built Bullets for longer than the Brits have now. So give them their due. At least to the extent that they know what oil and how much is needed in your Bullet to keep it running well.

I keep hearing about this magical Unicorn term "improved metallurgy" ... does that improved metallurgy stop at the engines only or does it extend beyond?

Am sure all of us have heard and studied about the Iron Pillar of Mehrauli. We do not have that technology in India today. So things do not always necessarily move forwards.

Cheers, Doc

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by Sankar

The cast iron in its stock state is such a low stressed low compression motor that it does not really need a synthetic oil which would not break down under heat. But if you must you can use the synthetic without any problem.

Of course. I once put synthetic oil in my old CI Bullet and didn't notice such a difference. Then I remember having a conversation with an engineer who explained what you point out to me.
I simply went back to using good quality Shell oils.
The thing is, however, the J-series is fairly significantly different from the old CI type or UCE engine.
There's a balancer shaft, and I imagine that the tolerances are much tighter now. That's the reason I am now thinking that I should find out more about using synthetics.

My ex Bullet CI350, two spark plugs, high compression, ported, 28mm carb etc.

The bike looks nice : )

[2wheelsvaga]

Originally Posted by RD410

Try Castrol just once, to understand whether there are any perceptible changes or not. Try Power1 Ultimate 15w50, which is a full synthetic but it comes in 1L pack, so you will need to buy 3 packs. You can also try Power1 Cruise 15w50, but I just found that it is a semi-synthetic. If there's not much change, then revert back to RE Liquid Gun. I bet you will feel positive changes, because even mineral oils from Castrol are superior and well formulated.

Personally, I am not comfortable with extending drain intervals. Indian conditions are extremely harsh and even the best FS oil will loose it's lubrication properties around 4-5k kms. Hence I drain the oil slightly before the normal drain interval (before 4k for scooter/bike and before 10k for car).

I could try it. Except, I was hoping that someone who's used synthetic with the J-series engines could come in and share their experiences of using it over the long-term.
As the other posters point out, I doubt I'll be able to immediately notice any significant differences (other than more smoothness).
It really is a question of using something that assures me that the engine will have a longer service life than if I used the RE oil.

I fully agree. I would hesitate to use oil (even a synthetic) for a whole year. Given the difficult riding conditions, changing every 6 months makes sense for an RE bike.

[hserus]

Got money to burn then check this one
AMSOIL 15W-50 SYNTHETIC METRIC MOTORCYCLE OIL 1 U.S. QUART (946 ML) https://amzn.eu/d/eQ1SpyU

Optimised for big bikes and highway cruising or so they say

Exceeds the standard for high-temperature film strength to deliver excellent wear protection.
Extremely resistant to volatility and engineered to prevent damaging sludge and carbon deposits for superior engine cleanliness.
SMOOTH, CONFIDENT SHIFTS
Contains advanced anti-foam additives that help prevent foam for reliable wear protection, allowing riders to confidently push their bikes to the limit.
Delivers Superior Rust and Corrosion Protection

[2wheelsvaga]

I dug into the specs a bit and came up with this interesting comparison.

It looks like the RE OEM oil is quite good. The TBN figure is low, but I am not sure what exactly that signifies.

But it sure does look like it equals the performance of fully synthetic oils, or so it look.

The question is, how does this happen? In what parameter will a fully synthetic oil far succeed a regular oil?

[adrian]

Originally Posted by adrian

Currently running on Motul 300 V 15W50 for my daily 80 km commute for the last couple of months. After using 300V, the gear shifts have become smooth, the engine vibrations have reduced and the engine oil is not turning dark as with mineral and semi synthetics. The oil window is still clear green after 1500 kms of changing oil.

Updates : I had tried the 300 v based on the recommendation chart from Motul and as per the posts made by some BHP-ians who claimed and were satisfied to have used 300 V for around 6K kilometers in Randhawa's Classic 500 thread.


However, I had read from many online threads stating that 300 V has a short drain interval and is good only for a few heat cycles. So the red flag was always there while using the oil and was always on the double alert regarding engine sounds and smoothness.

So to conclude, around 1800 kms, the gear shifts began to get not so smooth (just like it gets when the engine oil reaches it's replacement mileage). Drained the 300 V and reverted back to semi synthetic liquid gun. The oil level window was still clear green and there was no decrease in engine oil level. There was no leakage from gaskets or packing (my motorcycle is a 2011 model with more than 70K on the odo).

While draining the old oil, I noticed that the preliminary gush of drained oil had lot of dark muck which was followed by clear green oil.

So my experience/ experiment with 300V confirms the short drain interval of the oil and as several others pointed out, is not feasible (from the economic point of view) for use with Royal Enfield UCE Bullets.

regards adrian