[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

My local riding group is big time into Stunting (ClubRPM) and we are one of the top stunting teams in India.

Congrats!

But, dont you think under 'normal' riding, P220 would do good?

[ScarySkulls]

In normal City riding. P220 sure impresses its surefooted handling due to the thick front shocks. And a good rear brake.

Riding two bikes back to back. P220 is faster, but Karizma feels faster. Mainly because as soon as the ignition maps switch somewhere around 5500rpm, the bike seems to enter into a sweet spot of power.
With the P220, it's all very linear diesel engine like thrust. Is faster, but doesnt feel so.

Another critical point why I'd still pick a 5 year old design Karizma against a relatively fresh P220 is because of the FANTASTIC Hero Honda A.S.S. in my city.
I believe A.S.S. contributes a LOT to the overall ownership experience.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

I believe A.S.S. contributes a LOT to the overall ownership experience.

I True dat. I know a guy who gave his 220 to his younger brother and bought ZMA for the following factors:

1. Reliable
2. More comfortable
3. Better quality. Dunno if it is true or not but almost all the guys who have PULSAR says that BAJAJ needs to improve the quality.

[yogesh sarkar]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

Thanks for the post. So that means, not all P220 are created equal. Some manage to run well in extreme conditions also.

Talking of extreme, I've been full throttle on karizma for like many many minutes. RPM needle pinned to the redline. Never encountered any problems.

Another friend who on one of his highway tours, did same to his P200(he was a karizma owner earlier) had the exhaust valve fail due to extreme heat. That valve when punched a 2 inch wide hole in the piston. All other karizmas carried on....

My local riding group is big time into Stunting (ClubRPM) and we are one of the top stunting teams in India.
Stunting = Accelerated wear and tear. Pulsars overheat and loose power much much easier than Karizmas. Holds true for P150, 180, 200. 220 Still manages near to karizma due to fuel injection changing values appropriately and keeping the engine ticking over well.....

Same goes for Karizma, I have seen three Karizma's gear box break, one in city and two while out touring! This is on top of the tail sections of Karizma's getting cracked while doing tough routes.

As for pulsar over heating, well that only happens if you are not using proper grade engine oil (at least in the 180s) and if the timing isn't right.

At the end of the day, if you have any doubts regarding a particular brand or a bike, don't buy it! Because if you buy it, that doubt is going to reappear at the slightest sign of trouble, which frankly isn't good for you nor for the bike!

Ps. keeping the rpm needle pinned to the redline isn't actually touring, its ripping.

[ScarySkulls]

Thanks again for the post.

For the record, all bikes run full synthetic to minimize heating and wear and tear.

Anyways. Thank you.

[Proxima]

BUMP

Which one did you buy finally?

[phamilyman]

Umm, about BAL valves - here you go (courtesy some blr mad modder kids):

zma/cbzx valve thickness: 5.5 mm
p180 dtsi v1: 4.5mm
whereas the original classic had 5mm kawa valves, with better guide and cam.

That should explain what ScarySkulls would have said

[BunnyPunia]

If some has the time to go the posts on the official p200 and p220 topics running on xbhp, he/she will instantly go for the ZMA.
Pulsar owners are pulling their hair for sometime now. from oil leakage to front fork break-ups to heat ups to digital display going haywire to rear disc issue. I somehow feel that the initial early Pulsars were better, way better.

The ZMA : yes it is pricey, yes the parts are expensive, but on the whole for peace of mind, it is worth a bike.

For the record i ride a June 2003 54500km old ZMA, which has been all over the place (touring) and in numerous stunts/drag meets. A fren of mine in delhi who owns a zma got a p220 and ever since he got the p220, he has been fed up with it. Ditto for another member on xbhp, who actually sold his p200 and got a zma. And he is happy now!

Bajaj never seems to learn. From issues in the p200 to issues in the wave (scoot) to the new XCD.. i donno when their products will be as trouble free as todays HH/TVS/Honda bikes.

and as scaryskulls said, the p220 is great, only on paper. even perf wise, it is hardly less a sec quicker to 100 than the zma or for that matter has a 4-5km/h better top end. But what the rider also gets are tons of vibs. ZMAs have been known to hold high speeds for hours. OD mags 24hr non stop ride, Arn's (from mumbai) 1751km in 24hr ride on real highways, my 1690km in 30hr run and many more. The reason for this is the sedate state of tune of the engine. Power wise its just 17horses, but the torque is there, that too at just 6000rpm.

fuel economy : as written by the author, it doesnt matter for him.

Anyways, to summarize, personally, i would advise a zma over a p220 anyday

Hope the healthy discussion continues

[sumitkalindi]

@V&V, you narrowed down to two arch rivals. This topic will go on and on I guess, with My horse is better than thou stuff. I suggest you to get in touch with some bikers in your city having the above bikes, if possible test ride both, go through there experience.(With an open mind, from my personal experience, it seems Bajaj owners usually don't care for the bikes too much, they always thrash it,[where is my Flame suite?] maybe cheaper parts to be blamed.) Do a proper research, (You don't want to end up with the last carb ZMA, as someone suggested.) and if still unable to decide, go with your heart. Whatever you purchase, (remember they both have their -ve points), so take a educated plunge, and then you can also join one of the rival teams. Respect your Bike, and she will bring yoy respect.Best Of Bike.

[mobike008]

I own a P150 and after 2.5 years and only 11K on the odo, yesterday my key wont insert into the system. I was told something went kaput inside and i need to replace the entire key system. 500+installation

Despite my low usage, i am disappointed to see this problem crop up or is it due to my low usage? ( I use it like once or twice a week).

Coming back to the topic, if going by looks P220 looks better than KZM. And, power and handling wise its no less inferior. If you can live with these some tickling problems then its got to be a P220

[merve_extreme]

Ride both the bikes and then decide,most people will give you biased opinions.The thing i hate is HH bikes are so blow out of proportion,that they get away with making mediocre bikes with no advances in technology for years.

Pulsar has no quality issues as far i know,I have a P180 for 3 years with only one issue so far,a blown speedo bulb.

Originally Posted by mobike008

I own a P150 and after 2.5 years and only 11K on the odo, yesterday my key wont insert into the system. I was told something went kaput inside and i need to replace the entire key system. 500+installation

i think someone tried to break your lock.if thats not the problem try some lubrication with WD40.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

i think someone tried to break your lock.if thats not the problem try some lubrication with WD40.

Ditto. We had that in our m800 several years back as well

and pulsars aren't bad - the only thing one must really choose is the vibes. But in p220, i think shouldn't be as stark a difference as zma vs p180

Versus a p180, ZMA goes much faster minus the vibes. Versus p220 I don't know - test at this sunday's xbhp g2g only na man!!

PS: P220 had a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty in Mumbai for the first set released there - don't know what is current status. But that is a big big peace of mind

[Mpower]

Do either of these bikes have balance shaft to reduce vibration?

[ScarySkulls]

Bunny is the earliest ZMA owner in the country that I know of. He's a mature level headed guy, so I will take his opinions for it's worth in gold.

Anyways, to the guys who still like P220, ponder on this pic. yes, that 90k on the odo. Wonder what would happen to the Pulsar if it was to reach HALF that mark. Yes, been there done that. Seen Pulsars at 20k, 30k, 40k mark. I dont want to say anything else.

[Proxima]

What are the sales figures for the 2 of them?

That should give us a good idea about mass opinion.