[ravi@64bhp]

Darth Sid, FYI, RTR vibrates and if you do not like vibrations, you really need to look in to this. If you want a relaxed and smooth engine, RTR is not the bill. Out of three, Karizma has the most smooth and relaxed engine. P220 has the power and grunt, better than Karizma and RTR.

P220 handles generally good, but it has a bit heavy front. Regarding the reliability of P220s, I am not quite convinced that they are as reliable as a Honda engine. I have seen quite a few P220s with lots of niggles. You can take care of these, but you need lots of visits to Service Station; you need to spend more time for the bike. P220 requires more attention to maintain it.

If you want a VFM bike, nothing beats P220. But, VFM is not the only criteria all the time. Am I right?

And do not forget to take test rides. A test ride will help you a lot than our inputs.

[desideep]

SID,

i got the pulsar cause it is lesser money and more the package, when comes to niggles if i can cope up with the RE then pulsar is a lot more reliable,

i did not like the looks of the ZMR the new FI HH karizma. i feel that it is a HAYACHUSA this is what i like to call it,

Pulsar gives me more the power when compared to the ZMA or ZMR, good millage. i do normal speeds of 80-90 and a lot of 100-120 on the way to office thats in gurgaon so that means out of 25 Km to the office i rarely get to ride slow or say the comuter speeds that is 50-60 and still i get a millage close to 42 and i think its amazing. in karizma you cannot expect that but yes refinement is what ZMA has i can say so cause i have ridden the ZMA a lot and Pulsar really vibrates and i can feel the vibrations a lot more than the Bullet.

p220 at price aroun 75 is a lot better machine than what ever in the market, as i remember you are one of the guys "I LIKE TO DO IT MY SELF" (from a old thread hehehe) you would love to have the P220 cause initially cause of the bad service which is same at all the places you would need to take the spanner and tigten some bolts here and there. i am still not feeling connected to the Pulsar still would like to take out my Bullet rather than the Pulsar . but again who said that its easy to go MAINSTREAM if you are used to the other way.

and yes you can certainly connect your self to the ZMA it is a Long stroke engine and as you wrote in the PM thats why you feel the piston moving hehee. i would try to get a ZMA for my self i want to do a small mod project with it that would be just a copstmatic change.

[musicmanaman]

TD the new Discover 150 as well, I have heard it a pocket rocket, cheap as well about 52k OTR here in Kolkata. When you look at the top speed of all these bikes the Discover is there with almost all of them, apart from the ZMA.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by ravi@64bhp

Grafin, Karizma's chain sprocket set is 800 only. 2200 is three years back.

I do not agree that Karizma's engine vibrates more than FZ. If you ask me, there is no comparison between FZ's engine and Karizma's engine. The torque levels of Karizma are well above the FZ. I have toured on Karizma for 40k kms, and never felt, not a single time, vibrations from the engine.

As for the disc pads, I heard that Hero Honda is sourcing brake pads from KBX for Karizma and the price is now around 1150.

Wish i could show you the bill of my purchase dude, because i paid 2200 bucks for the chain kit in 2008.

And i had a KZ for 18 months(and 18k kms) and i know the difference in vibes between the FZ and the KZ quite well.
The engine vibes are quite normal, but when you rev it to higher rpms, you can feel the foot rests vibrate a bit which i havent seen on the FZ, quite frankly.

True the FZ is low on power, but it makes up for it on the handling and braking front.

[ravi@64bhp]

Originally Posted by Grafin

Wish i could show you the bill of my purchase dude, because i paid 2200 bucks for the chain kit in 2008.

Most probably they would have sold you old stock.

Originally Posted by Grafin

And i had a KZ for 18 months(and 18k kms) and i know the difference in vibes between the FZ and the KZ quite well.
The engine vibes are quite normal, but when you rev it to higher rpms, you can feel the foot rests vibrate a bit which i havent seen on the FZ, quite frankly.

I have observed footrest vibrations of Karizma only after 7k rpm and that too are minimal and very much tolerable. This cannot be just reason that FZ is better than Karizma.

Originally Posted by Grafin

True the FZ is low on power, but it makes up for it on the handling and braking front.

Nothing can make up for power, except power.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by ravi@64bhp

Most probably they would have sold you old stock.



I have observed footrest vibrations of Karizma only after 7k rpm and that too are minimal and very much tolerable. This cannot be just reason that FZ is better than Karizma.



Nothing can make up for power, except power.

Not exactly old stock because i dint get it at one showroom because they dint have stock, had to go to another store where the price quoted was the same. Even the printed price was almost the same(minus tax or something). The wiring kit was quoted at 1850 which my friend picked up for his '04 Zma.

My Zma had noticeable foot rest vibes around the 4.5 to 5K rpm but i dint say it was intolerable. In an FZ the vibes are considerably lesser and less felt. In essence im just highlighting the fact the FZ engine is slightly more refined that a KZ's engine.

Grip and braking are the areas where the KZ falls out against the FZ.

If power is all that one needed , then the P200 and P220 are more than worthy, id say superior competitors to the Zma(the R or ZMR).

[ravi@64bhp]

Karizma's handling and braking are very good, but as you said are below the FZ. I believe Karizma wins as a overall package than FZ. FZ seriously lacks power and everyone may not like an ordinary 150cc performance.

FZ is for those who wants a style conscious city commuter with reasonable power.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by ravi@64bhp

Karizma's handling and braking are very good, but as you said are below the FZ. I believe Karizma wins as a overall package than FZ. FZ seriously lacks power and everyone may not like an ordinary 150cc performance.

FZ is for those who wants a style conscious city commuter with reasonable power.

Couldnt agree with you more on the first point.

But to be honest, to consider a bike an overall package, it would depend on the needs of a person.

When i bought the KZ, i had more money than practicality and it went on to burn a hole in my pocket for fuel, when all i needed was a 150CC bike with reasonable mileage.

True the Zma is far more powerful, but the roads i take everyday and with the traffic, it doesnt matter whether i ride a Zma or a Splendor, i take the same time.

So after a year and a half i sorta went down the Pyramid and bought a smaller engined bike. Its definitely low on power, but its got enough minerals to entertain and is light on the pocket. Definitely the package i was looking for myself.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

FZ

PROS-
1) Best looking Indian street bike available. A poseur bike I would say, which isn't really a bad thing for many.

2) Good for stunts.

3) Good handling.
Also, that adjustable mono-shock is a boon as compared to non-adjustable unit on the One-Five,

4) Typical Yamaha build quality.

5) Spare though not as cheap as Bajaj but are priced quite reasonably.

6) Refined Motor.

7) Better feedback from brakes (as compared to ZMA)

CONS-

1) Lacks outright power. Even the P-135 LS is quicker!!

2) Fuel efficiency below par as compared to regular 150cc bikes.

3) Expensive to buy. You can buy a ZMA/220 for FZ money without really stretching much.

4) Weak Headlight,

5) Diminutive pillion seat is really a pain in the *** for those with above average bum sizes.

Apart from these there is nothing much against the FZ.




ZMA-R


PROS-

1) Excellent gearing and good low end grunt makes it quite quick. Its just a tad slower to 80kmph as compared to the 220 even though the power difference is around 25%.


2) Feels sportier than the FZ.

3) Very stable and good handling too. Not as sharp as the FZ though.

4) Amazing mile muncher. Also feels far more comfortable to pillion riders as compared to Pulsars (which has fair amount of vibes in rear pegs) and the FZ.

5) Although very long in the tooth now, still manages to look good. Has aged very gracefully.

CONS


1) Not as fast as the 220. Although its much faster than the FZ.

2) Does not have the street presence it used to have a few years ago.

3) Build quality has gone down. Mismatched paint texture on panels is not an uncommon thing. Pre-R ZMAs boasted muh better built.

4) Not very fuel efficient. Some owners report as low as 25-30 kmpl. Needless to say depends a lot on riding habits though.

5) Tyres not as grippy as those on the FZs/R15s/220-Fs.

6) Spares are VERY EXPENSIVE. Consider this-- ZMA's disc brake pads cost above 1500 bucks while 220's cost around 300 bucks!! Similar with graib-rails and other body panels. However, many believe that its the price to pay for Honda reliability and am in no mood to argue with them.



However, a K&N along with bigger jets does wonders for the ZMA. Difference in performance is very clear with such a small mod.



ZMA and FZ are very different bikes. While FZ is a great city bike, ZMA is in its element on the Highways.


Its best to decide keeping in minds the requirements. Not that the FZ cant do a highway run but its ZMA which is the better long distance bike of the duo. By a large margin at that. This alone makes ZMA a better bike for me despite it being long in the tooth now.

But, your requirements may or may not be same as mine or others, so its best to choose as per your priorities. Either way, you can't go too wrong with these bikes.



BUT (and a very big but at that) as a package, nothing beats the 220 at the moment.
Its reliability is a suspect but with proper maintenance I guess it won't really be as troublesome as many believe it to be.
It has its flaws but the fact that its the most powerful machine in this category simply can't be ignored. Dump the main-stand and that makes it a good handler too, though its quite front heavy.

Still its loaded and at that price its almost a bargain. Do consider this option once. And those who say its dated there are still older biker around.

Originally Posted by musicmanaman

TD the new Discover 150 as well, I have heard it a pocket rocket, cheap as well about 52k OTR here in Kolkata. When you look at the top speed of all these bikes the Discover is there with almost all of them, apart from the ZMA.

True, Disco 150 is a VFM package. But I'll not give it a second look as long as the 135-LS is around. Also, Bajaj went a step backward from technology when it dumped FI in favour of the UCAL-32 carb for 220.

Yet again, Bajaj has done the same. It brought the 4-valve tech in the P135. Now it fiddled with XCD-135 motor and overbored it to 150 and plonked it in disco frame. Also, the all down shift pattern is a Thumbs Down as its too commuter class.

And if commuting is what one has to do why not stick to Disco-100 or other excellent commuters from Honda and TVS?


Regards.

[nandans2005]

Originally Posted by Grafin

But to be honest, to consider a bike an overall package, it would depend on the needs of a person.

Grafin,

I have sent you a pm. Please reply.

Thanks.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

FZ
4) Weak Headlight,

5) Diminutive pillion seat is really a pain in the *** for those with above average bum sizes.

-headlamp illumination is better than Karizma

-pillion seat may appear small, but it is okay to haul big ones
though not as comfy as Karizma,

6) Spares are VERY EXPENSIVE. Consider this-- ZMA's disc brake pads cost above 1500 bucks while 220's cost around 300 bucks!! Similar with graib-rails and other body panels. However, many believe that its the price to pay for Honda reliability and am in no mood to argue with them.

The parts, its prices and the quality associated with it makes it truly rubbish

the engine is a gem of the Karizma and that is it, brakes are spongy and it is the best tourer around,

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by Sheel

-headlamp illumination is better than Karizma

-pillion seat may appear small, but it is okay to haul big ones
though not as comfy as Karizma,

Its not that its headlamp is not bright. I just felt that the beam's throw is not well spread.

As for the seat, though it sounds ridiculous but am not kidding that I know of a fellow who bought Hunk over the FZ because her girlfriend found FZ's seat small and uncomfy.

The parts, its prices and the quality associated with it makes it truly rubbish

the engine is a gem of the Karizma and that is it, brakes are spongy and it is the best tourer around,

Everytime I talk about expensive spares and quality of spares of ZMA, there are people out here who are always ready to argue till eternity. So I'll keep shut on this point.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Its not that its headlamp is not bright. I just felt that the beam's throw is not well spread.

Get it adjusted(on whosoever motorcycle the beam spread ain't proper)

As for the seat, though it sounds ridiculous but am not kidding that I know of a fellow who bought Hunk over the FZ because her girlfriend found FZ's seat small and uncomfy.

Everytime I talk about expensive spares and quality of spares of ZMA, there are people out here who are always ready to argue till eternity. So I'll keep shut on this point.

true,so let it go, to each his own

[desideep]

i have adjusted my pulsars head like like hundred times but man i just dont know what happens after two days

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by desideep

i have adjusted my pulsars head like like hundred times but man i just dont know what happens after two days

^^the one which carries its brains