[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I will not touch another Tata vehicle with a bargepole till reliability issues are fixed - which means a large enough sample of people report niggle free ownership reports over many years.

I was just wondering about something, w.r.t the Aria [and not any other Tata vehicle]. I haven't read of any serious issues with the Aria, at least in the ownership reviews on TBHP and on other online automotive forums. I know a couple of technicians in an erstwhile Tata ASC in Pune, and they say that their ex-colleagues who jumped to other Tata ASCs say that Aria has been a pleasant surprise as far as reliability goes, with hardly any niggles in the 1st year after launch. Also, I haven't come across many Arias in the used car market [online as well as brick & mortar] even after almost 11 months after launch; so maybe the 1st batch of new Aria owners have still not experienced the infamous Tata niggles that makes owners tear their hair out in frustration and sell their vehicle?

From all the above, would it be fair to conclude that maybe, just maybe, Tata has got at least the engineering related reliability aspects right with the Aria?

Cheers,
Vikram

[devenashani]

I have been using aria since 6 months... I have present experience with the car no problem with the reliability, there is not even single breakdown since purchase.. only thing I am not happy about is the service station experience.

I would desire a better experience at service station if I am spending 16L+ on car...

Over all I have very present experience with the car and I think its build to last long..

[ambujlal]

My new apartment car-parking friend (who recently moved in) owns an Aria since November, 2010 and has done close to 35k Kms. Drove his "Arrow" (as he calls it) and just loved the drive. He vouches for Aria's build quality and niggle free experience. He has been to Leh this year and says it was a rattle free and super comfortable drive with all this camping equipment packed in. Mileage wise in Delhi bumper to bumper traffic he gets about 13kmpl. I asked him would you buy another Aria (Arrow-2), and pat comes the reply, any day with blind eye! Speaks volume for Aria.

Introduced him to team-bhp and may be someday he would bless us with a write up (although a very lazy kind of creature he is)!

[gshanky]

IMO Aria has a good chance in the near future. Consider the scenario where Innova has been selling in good number for the last decade and most of the Innova owner will be looking for an upgrade in the near future.

Now if you are not really an off-roader and are used to travelling with the family then you need an upgrade over Innova and the natural choice would be ARIA. The challenge for ARIA is to position as a better car over Innova. So, if ARIA keeps improving then I think it has a good chance to sell around 1000 cars a month.

[samm]

Wow! Its great to hear Aria is living upto Tata's dream of niggle free cars. This is where the volume will help. Now the voices of Aria owners are far too few and feeble.

As nilanjanray confirms, I have hardly seen any current Tata owner recommending another Tata car. Everyone has said they will not buy another Tata. This is what has to be conciously addressed by Tata. But there are several others who are willing to buy because the new cars are great, but literally scared to take the plunge.

Also, upgrade from Innova will never be an Aria. Its almost like moving from Alto to Vista. How many will do this? Ask any Innova owner. It will be most likely a TFort. If it is not a financial feasibility, then most of them will live with the rock solid Innova, which will last his lifetime!

[samm]

Originally Posted by julupani

.....True Tata need to do better with their Indica Vistas and Manzas. They seem to have forgotten about the Sumo. And the Safari is only now going to get a good upgrade after almost a decade of facelifts. But lets not damn the Aria because of that.

Never!! I surely would like to see Aria do well. Frankly, I like Aria (which i dont have!) more than the Innova I own. I had waited for over 1 year for Aria to launch! In that period, Innova price had gone up over 1Lac.
What I believe is, Aria has the potential to do much much better, and can be a winner if Tata can do something to put the fear out of potential customers mind. Sadly, nothing of that happens from the company nor from the sales outlets.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by samm

Never!! I surely would like to see Aria do well. Frankly, I like Aria (which i dont have!) more than the Innova I own. I had waited for over 1 year for Aria to launch! In that period, Innova price had gone up over 1Lac.
What I believe is, Aria has the potential to do much much better, and can be a winner if Tata can do something to put the fear out of potential customers mind. Sadly, nothing of that happens from the company nor from the sales outlets.

Tata are doing better with the Aria, the few posts above show that. I think the lower volumes have helped in putting more concentration on the quality of the car manufactured, rather than the quantity of the cars manufactured.Hope they have got the hang of it by now, so that they can maintain the quality, in the face of anticipated rise in sales.

But the issue of improved quality cant be advertised. It has to come from the people talking among themselves, and not the company telling you about it. All the company can do is to keep the product fresh in the minds of the customers, which I think Tata are doing pretty well with the regular ad campaigns, competitions, social media etc. It would be a dream come true for Tata if it can get close to a thousand units per month.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I have had an Indica for 7 years. While it has given me many happy moments (first car), it has also given me more headache than I can handle - from the first month - and left me stranded many times.

My SX4 has had zero serious issues in two years. My Fortuner has given me zero issues in 16000km of ownership.

I will not touch another Tata vehicle with a bargepole till reliability issues are fixed - which means a large enough sample of people report niggle free ownership reports over many years.

Even Land Rover is not known for its reliability - check out forums in South Africa and Australia. I am still not convinced that Tata has reached Jap level reliability, even with LR/JLR tech infusion. And till that happens, I (personal bias) would not plonk down 12L+ on a Tata vehicle.

Originally Posted by samm

As nilanjanray confirms, I have hardly seen any current Tata owner recommending another Tata car. Everyone has said they will not buy another Tata. This is what has to be conciously addressed by Tata. But there are several others who are willing to buy because the new cars are great, but literally scared to take the plunge.

Also, upgrade from Innova will never be an Aria. Its almost like moving from Alto to Vista. How many will do this? Ask any Innova owner. It will be most likely a TFort. If it is not a financial feasibility, then most of them will live with the rock solid Innova, which will last his lifetime!

Well... Here comes the fanboy if you want to call me that.

Have had the Sierra, Sumo, Safari (brief while) and now have the Indica TDi and the Marina TDi. Each of the above mentioned cars/beasts have done over 150,000 kms. The Safari belonged to a friend which I was using for a few 1000 kms. The Marina just completed 123000 kms and I bought it second-hand at 93000 kms.

I have done all kinds of terrain in all these vehicles (yes, 4x4 terrain in the Indica and Marina too), haven't pampered them and yet the only breakdown I ever had was recently on the Marina when the timing belt got cut and the car broke down two weeks ago. This was probably a freak accident.

I have loaded these vehicles to the brim with material varying from garments, cement, glass and much more and can vouch for their reliability. While I agree that I have issues with quality (glass not winding up straight, some rattling, noisier engine) I can say that they have never let me down, ever.

VFM was Tata's mantra and even though the Aria might seem pricey, I guess it will still be VFM considering what it offers. I am thinking of buying the Venture or the Winger (yet to decide on how much space I would need), but if things go well this year, the Aria will find another home next year in my father's garage.

Well, am I a total Tata fanboy? I still have my dad's 1991 M800, had the M1000, Omni and the Gypsy King, Hyundai Santro, HM Ambassador and the Contessa and Toyota Qualis. I also have the Ford Ikon. The M1000 (85000 kms) have been the most problematic of all the cars we have had in 20-odd years. Each of these cars had done at least a 100,000 kms with us.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by samm

Also, upgrade from Innova will never be an Aria.

I know one person (One of my close friends friend), sold his Innova and baught an Aria. In his words, there is no comparison between Innova and Aria. According to him Aria is much more advanced in technology and design than Innova. In his own words "There is nothing Tatayish in Aria, except the logo.". [For the record, he thought Aria's design was done by Land rover, may be misled by the sales person, and his other car now is a Ford Fiesta].
I specifically asked about the legroom in 3rd row. Yes, leg room is slightly less, but cargo space is more behind the 3rd row and he prefers this arrangement, as there is enough space for the occasional airport pickups. Only time will tell whether his decision was correct or not, but so far he dont have any regrets.
I kind of agree with his observation, Toyota do have all the advanced technology currently available in the world, but Innova dont have much as this is a model for developing countries.Future versions of Innova may get more advanced features, but for the moment in its current avatar, Aria is more advanced vehicle than Innova, But once Innova gets features equivalent to Aria in the future, will they be able to sell at the current price levels?

[gshanky]

Originally Posted by samm

Also, upgrade from Innova will never be an Aria. Its almost like moving from Alto to Vista. How many will do this? Ask any Innova owner. It will be most likely a TFort. If it is not a financial feasibility, then most of them will live with the rock solid Innova, which will last his lifetime!

Care to explain why? As long as the need is the same, why can't ARIA be an upgrade over Innova?

And here is my original sentence:

Now if you are not really an off-roader and are used to travelling with the family then you need an upgrade over Innova and the natural choice would be ARIA.

Assuming you read the above sentence in full, the possibility of Tfort being an upgrade over Innova is sort of ruled out for the given scenario.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by ambujlal

My new apartment car-parking friend (who recently moved in) owns an Aria since November, 2010 and has done close to 35k Kms. Drove his "Arrow" (as he calls it) and just loved the drive. He vouches for Aria's build quality and niggle free experience. He has been to Leh this year and says it was a rattle free and super comfortable drive with all this camping equipment packed in. Mileage wise in Delhi bumper to bumper traffic he gets about 13kmpl. I asked him would you buy another Aria (Arrow-2), and pat comes the reply, any day with blind eye! Speaks volume for Aria.

Introduced him to team-bhp and may be someday he would bless us with a write up (although a very lazy kind of creature he is)!

Good to hear news like this about Aria. We need more competition against the Innova so that all the manufacturers up their game.
Still, one swallow does not make a summer. To be known as a reliable manufacturer, the vehicles must run for many years, in multiple conditions, with a variety of owners that report happy ownership experiences. I would wait till then.
Heck, even the fiat uno owners reported a lot of happiness in the first six months. I was one who reported happiness for the first three years on my uno, even with an AC that required repairs every 2 months. But the car fell apart completely in the fourth and fifth years of its life and even getting to office w/o a breakdown became a prayer led exercise.
Once bitten, twice shy, I now only purchase products that have been endorsed by the "aam aadmi" over his years of ownership.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Good to hear news like this about Aria. We need more competition against the Innova so that all the manufacturers up their game.
Still, one swallow does not make a summer. To be known as a reliable manufacturer, the vehicles must run for many years, in multiple conditions, with a variety of owners that report happy ownership experiences. I would wait till then.
Heck, even the fiat uno owners reported a lot of happiness in the first six months. I was one who reported happiness for the first three years on my uno, even with an AC that required repairs every 2 months. But the car fell apart completely in the fourth and fifth years of its life and even getting to office w/o a breakdown became a prayer led exercise.
Once bitten, twice shy, I now only purchase products that have been endorsed by the "aam aadmi" over his years of ownership.

There a lot of Tata Safaris on the road for 10 years now for Tatas to fine tune their in house skills to make an SUV which will not keep breaking down often. Safaris have been exported to italy spain greece for half a decade now . It has a decent fan following in the form of clubs searching you tube will show a lot of left hand drive safaris driven in extreme conditions. This shows the ability of Tatas to atleast elevate their status to a global manufacturer even prior to their acquisition of JLR.

[samm]

Originally Posted by gshanky

Care to explain why? As long as the need is the same, why can't ARIA be an upgrade over Innova?

And here is my original sentence:


Assuming you read the above sentence in full, the possibility of Tfort being an upgrade over Innova is sort of ruled out for the given scenario.

Simply because, it isnt really a big upgrade! If the needs are the same, what additional stuff do you get in Aria over an Innova V, except for the bells and whistles? Yes, wheels are bigger, better power (which anyways can come in Innova as well using Pete's - several fellow TBHP-ians will vouch for this), EBD, and the fancy features are nice to have.... But are these worth the risk you are taking by spending around 15L?

Ok, if the use is for a family, as a people mover, then Aria cant be an upgrade option, since its last row is pretty bad, and you have to be an acrobat to get in there. Yes, the boot space is slightly better. Again the Toyota's top service experience is lost. Maybe this will improve over time with Tata, though.

I missed the option of someone having a preowned Innova. For such a user, probably Aria will appeal as a new car.
But I cant imagine someone who has spent 15.5L for Innova V or even 13.5L for a GX, moving to Aria to upgrade. A used TFort at around 18L (there are 3-4 year old TFort avl for 18-19L) will give one much better experience, the macho feel, the image factor, and peace of mind, in my perspective.

Right now, in my perspective, Aria is not an option, till Tata drastically improve the factors they are lacking in.

[samm]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

I kind of agree with his observation, Toyota do have all the advanced technology currently available in the world, but Innova dont have much as this is a model for developing countries.Future versions of Innova may get more advanced features, but for the moment in its current avatar, Aria is more advanced vehicle than Innova, But once Innova gets features equivalent to Aria in the future, will they be able to sell at the current price levels?

Right, Toyota has not done anything on Innova since its launch. Just because there is no competition. They charge premium just for the quality and reliability, without giving anything fancy. They dont even give some basic stuff like music system despite the premium pricing. But, do we have an alternative? I cant afford to risk 15L+ on an unknown entity like Aria, knowing very well what (most) Tata owners want to say, and recommend without a second thought. Sure there are exceptions -true Tata fanboys) , they are very few!

[julupani]

Everybody's a big fan of the Fortuner, isnt it??

Why can there be people like me, who thinks the Fortuner is a crappy car. Its just a lot of show and nothing much else. Why cant people not like the fact that its a big brash macho guy. I much prefer the suave sophisticated feel of the Aria any day to the Fortuner. Neither do I like the MUVish looks of Innova, which just doesnt have much presence at all.