[girishglg]

Aria is yet another climb up the value chain effort for Tata straddling every segment in the cars/ UV/ MUV/ SUV space. The effort seems to be commendable with all the bells and whistles loaded into the top end 4x4.

The 4x2 effort seems to be a stripping down exercise typically to push volumes. Personally in my opinion the Pure version is a good option to have but cutting down features in the higher end is a big no. What I mean is the 4x4 has - Pleasure - Prestige - Pride in the ascending order of trim which should have been retained 'as is' in the 4x2 except in the 4x2 they could have an additional trim Pure which is purely a VFM buy for those considering Aria in their buying basket.

Talking about Aria being a contender to Innova is actually logical as rrsteer mentioned, it just looks like a grown up version of Innova for many many auto ignorants, however long term powertrain and mechanical reliability is still a question that needs an answer.

ACM are you hearing and others who have already tamed this beast, let us know your thoughts as you pile up miles day on day since it would be nearly as relavent for a 4x2 as of the 4x4. Any day a first hand ownership update does bring out the true colors.

[psbali]

I just look at such comparisons between Innova and Aria and I only think that how can a Rugged lifestyle car like Aria with 17" wheels be compared to a people mover with a 102ps Innova. And that too by petrolheads like us.

If you want to now compare the sales do a comparison with Aria's lower end model and Innova's top end model.

Aria is for people who want to have fun and those who dont want to pay more than 15-16 lacs for it. Have you guys seen Aria's ad on TV? Try driving an innova like that and let me know how you feel.

Also the premium feel that you get inside an Aria cant be replicated by Innova in anyway.

This car still turns heads. Yesterday I went to a place for getting wheel alignment done and a whole 10000 sqft workshop stood still as the people there took turns to take a good look at the interiors and exteriors.(though it is really annoying at times)

Let the new version of Innova be out and tell me if that happens after even 8 to 9 months of its launch.

The dismal sales figures of 40 to 60 a month are due to shortages and not because there is no demand. After 4x2 model's launch things are only going to move in the right direction. Infact few years down the line when Tata Launches an AT version of this car I am definitely going to pick this up because it is indeed a poor man's Land Rover. I have never seen such a complete package which brings so much satisfaction to you.

Everyone wants the pricing right. They feel that just because a so and so company used to manufacture low cost cars they should make a product that is better than the Europeans and price it like Chinese and still come and wash toilets their toilets(Example).

Aria's price is high and people are still buying it. So deal with it.

[Maverick1977]

Kudos to Tata's for always identifying the need gaps in the market and filling them up. The new 4x2 Aria also seems to arise from the same fact. However my visit to one of their smaller TASS has left me a little worried. A one month old Aria had come there due to a complete clutch failure. So bad was the extent of the damage that the casing had holes in them. The clutch & pressure plates had actually separated. This may be a one off case but speaks something about the Quality of the parts which need to be 'fail safe'.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by psbali

The dismal sales figures of 40 to 60 a month are due to shortages and not because there is no demand.

Please get your data right. Aria month wise sales for the past 7 months, sourced for the July sales thread by GTO.

Jan-321 Feb-173 Mar-98 Apr-286 May-37 Jun-356 Jul-328

[heman_369]

Originally Posted by psbali

I just look at such comparisons between Innova and Aria and I only think that how can a Rugged lifestyle car like Aria with 17" wheels be compared to a people mover with a 102ps Innova. And that too by petrolheads like us.
=============
Aria's price is high and people are still buying it. So deal with it.

I agree to this completely. Aria is not a people mover but a lifestyle crossover vehicle for people upgrading from Sedans and dont need macho SUV's like fortuner. The list of features in the pride and prestige versions is unmatched in this category.

[noopster]

You guys are missing the point: it's not what the Aria is, it's what it's perceived to be that I was talking about. It will take more than just high-gloss advertising to convince a buyer that the Aria is not in fact susceptible to the niggles and glitches that Tata vehicles are known for.

An average 228 vehicles per month is not a bad number- my point is that it could be MUCH higher if Tata were able to onvince the vast majority among the buying community that it *is* in fact a differentiated offering from the Innova, which most people almost naturally compare it to.

I am withholding judgement till some long-term ownership reviews start pouring in.

[safari_lover]

The convincing part will take time. And TaMo needs to be patient about it.

Even on Team-BHP people used shout to 'bad quality' the moment someone mentioned Tata. Now that is mostly changed. People are convinced to some extent that the quality of TaMo's latest offerings is comparable to their peers.

As far as the Aria concerned, all the owners on the forums are very happy with their purchases. This will just add to that improved perception and to the convincing part.

Hopefully, sometime in near future, we'll discuss a Tata vehicle for what it offers and not for where it comes from!

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by noopster

Ummm that's not what julupani said.

Appreciate that there is a niche appeal for the Aria thanks to all the goodies Tata has plonked in but in my humble opinion, the vehicle has neither the brand pull nor the proven track record to take on vehicles a segment above the Innova. Which is why I think Tata has gone about it all wrong- they should have created a sub-brand for this segment. Selling the Aria at a premium over Innova while in the same breath the salesman is trying to sell you Manza as a cheaper alternative to Linea is just confused marketing!

I agree.

Tata followed the "Dodge Motors" strategy to look all vehicles in their lineup almost the same. Indicab/indica/indigo/eCS/Marina/XL and their Manza/Vista/Upcoming Vista Facelift/Aria(50% resemblance to Manza).

Why cant they follow a Toyota-Lexus or a Honda-Acura strategy to make a sub brand and sell Aria under the same brand.

If i were to burn 15 lacs on a vehicle in India, I would not but a tata as i would have to share the same service center with incourteous call taxi / cab wallahs and workshop technicians and supervisors who have never served customers at the premium end of the market.

If in the west i would not really care as the average Joe in more courteous and people are treated with more respect be it a supermarket or a car workshop.

If i am handing over 15 lacs to Toyota / Honda / Nissan i am getting a premium feel and attention shown is much better than a Tata A.S.S.

[psbali]

Originally Posted by julupani

Please get your data right. Aria month wise sales for the past 7 months, sourced for the July sales thread by GTO.

Jan-321 Feb-173 Mar-98 Apr-286 May-37 Jun-356 Jul-328

I forgot to add that the dismal figures of 30 to 40 in a month or two. Otherwise I am well aware of the fact that Aria has sold in good numbers in most of the months. Being an Aria owner I have to keep on checking that regularly

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I agree.

Tata followed the "Dodge Motors" strategy to look all vehicles in their lineup almost the same. Indicab/indica/indigo/eCS/Marina/XL and their Manza/Vista/Upcoming Vista Facelift/Aria(50% resemblance to Manza).

Why cant they follow a Toyota-Lexus or a Honda-Acura strategy to make a sub brand and sell Aria under the same brand.

If i were to burn 15 lacs on a vehicle in India, I would not but a tata as i would have to share the same service center with incourteous call taxi / cab wallahs and workshop technicians and supervisors who have never served customers at the premium end of the market.

If in the west i would not really care as the average Joe in more courteous and people are treated with more respect be it a supermarket or a car workshop.

If i am handing over 15 lacs to Toyota / Honda / Nissan i am getting a premium feel and attention shown is much better than a Tata A.S.S.

Imagine what would be the price of Aria had Tata decided to add a separate brand. They would have drawn a lot of criticism for using Safari's engine had that happened. And I am sure you are well aware of the costs it would involve to make a new engine, start a new brand, appoint new dealers etc. You are forgetting the fact that out of all companies in the world Tata got to be the one company that is present or atleast trying to be present in all market segments. Don't think that they would have not thought about it already.


And yeah atleast Aria is still the most beautiful product from Tata Motors

[julupani]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I agree.

Tata followed the "Dodge Motors" strategy to look all vehicles in their lineup almost the same. Indicab/indica/indigo/eCS/Marina/XL and their Manza/Vista/Upcoming Vista Facelift/Aria(50% resemblance to Manza).

Why cant they follow a Toyota-Lexus or a Honda-Acura strategy to make a sub brand and sell Aria under the same brand.

If i were to burn 15 lacs on a vehicle in India, I would not but a tata as i would have to share the same service center with incourteous call taxi / cab wallahs and workshop technicians and supervisors who have never served customers at the premium end of the market.

If in the west i would not really care as the average Joe in more courteous and people are treated with more respect be it a supermarket or a car workshop.

If i am handing over 15 lacs to Toyota / Honda / Nissan i am getting a premium feel and attention shown is much better than a Tata A.S.S.

A separate brand for the Aria is completely pointless for Tata, because it would become a one or two car brand, and it wont be economically worth it. Remember, there wont be any Tata's costlier than the Aria. The only other possibilty being a sedan in the 15 lakh range. The Aria is and will remain the flagship under the Tata brand. Post this, Tata brand will give way to Land Rover/Range Rover brands for UVs and Jaguar for the rest.

The Manza and Vista cars definitely gain by staying with the Tata brand, putting them in a separate brand is pointless.

The only Tata branded vehicle that will be costlier than even the top of the range Tata cars will be the Tata Prima trucks.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by julupani

A separate brand for the Aria is completely pointless for Tata, because it would become a one or two car brand, and it wont be economically worth it. Remember, there wont be any Tata's costlier than the Aria. The only other possibilty being a sedan in the 15 lakh range. The Aria is and will remain the flagship under the Tata brand. Post this, Tata brand will give way to Land Rover/Range Rover brands for UVs and Jaguar for the rest.

Sorry but your post is rife with assumptions. Why is a sedan in the 15 lakh range "the only other possibility"? Also didn't get how a new brand wuld make Tata a "one or two car brand". Companies can and do manufacture multiple vehicles on the same platform and it's entirely conceivable that Tata can launch a full-fledged SUV, luxury sedan or anything it wants on the Aria platform.
There is HUGE gap between the Tata brand (whose most expensive offering is in the 15 lac bracket) and JLR (which comes in at 40+ lac). I am a firm believer that the 20-30 lac segment is the one which will see a LOT of action in the years to come.
Anyway all this is academic discussion since it's quite clear Tata intends to stick to a single brand strategy.

[torquecurve]

Being a Tata Vista user for almost a year and a half now, with 22K kms driving on bad roads and good roads, I would say Tata has come a long way in terms of reliability and build quality. This with what could be said of an Economy hatch, I can Imagine what it will be with the ARIA.
I am currently in Hyderabad where I drove down from Pune with my mom and our pet dog. The drive of almost 600 kms, with only one 30 minute break at Solapur to visit my aunt and a couple quick pee breaks. When we reached Hyderabad in the morning, I wasnt tired at all, yes, I was the only driver! My mom and dog were both pretty comfortable and fresh!
Even after all the abuse that happens on the road, my car does not rattle/ vibrate!
Kudos to Tata.


The ARIA is an aspirational vehicle for me currently, cant wait to own one!

[julupani]

Originally Posted by noopster

Sorry but your post is rife with assumptions. Why is a sedan in the 15 lakh range "the only other possibility"? Also didn't get how a new brand wuld make Tata a "one or two car brand". Companies can and do manufacture multiple vehicles on the same platform and it's entirely conceivable that Tata can launch a full-fledged SUV, luxury sedan or anything it wants on the Aria platform.
There is HUGE gap between the Tata brand (whose most expensive offering is in the 15 lac bracket) and JLR (which comes in at 40+ lac). I am a firm believer that the 20-30 lac segment is the one which will see a LOT of action in the years to come.
Anyway all this is academic discussion since it's quite clear Tata intends to stick to a single brand strategy.

I am saying this from the point of view that Tata has never showed much interest in having two cars in the same price band. So we will have the Aria, below it the Safari replacement. Two empty slots are there for a sedan in the 9lakh region and a sedan in the 15 lakh region.

As of now, the lowest Jag is the XF which is not the lowest that Jag goes. Jag generally has one car below the XF level, one occupied by the X-type. which internationally is the C-class level. With local assembly prices for such a car will drop to about 25lakhs. But for the time being this particular slot in the Jaguar range is likely to remain empty for a couple of years, as the car is being designed from scratch, as the previous X-type was actually based on the Ford Mondeo.

Similarly with LR, the a locally assembled LR Freelander should be priced just like the X1 or may be a bit more. The Range Rover Evoque will be a bit costlier.

Thus the 20-30 lac segment will be filled by the locally assembled LR, who already have a plant setup in Chikhli, Maharashtra. I think a similar strategy will be followed for Jaguar as well.

Thus unless you want everything except the old gen Indica/Indigo and the Nano out of the Tata brand, having a one or two car brand for the Aria and its sedan sister is not really advisable.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by julupani

I am saying this from the point of view that Tata has never showed much interest in having two cars in the same price band. So we will have the Aria, below it the Safari replacement. Two empty slots are there for a sedan in the 9lakh region and a sedan in the 15 lakh region.

As of now, the lowest Jag is the XF which is not the lowest that Jag goes. Jag generally has one car below the XF level, one occupied by the X-type. which internationally is the C-class level. With local assembly prices for such a car will drop to about 25lakhs. But for the time being this particular slot in the Jaguar range is likely to remain empty for a couple of years, as the car is being designed from scratch, as the previous X-type was actually based on the Ford Mondeo.

Similarly with LR, the a locally assembled LR Freelander should be priced just like the X1 or may be a bit more. The Range Rover Evoque will be a bit costlier.

Thus the 20-30 lac segment will be filled by the locally assembled LR, who already have a plant setup in Chikhli, Maharashtra. I think a similar strategy will be followed for Jaguar as well.

Thus unless you want everything except the old gen Indica/Indigo and the Nano out of the Tata brand, having a one or two car brand for the Aria and its sedan sister is not really advisable.

Well, If you notice the "price" section of Automobile mags like Overdrive / Autocar, the Main con with Tata is "Quality", "Fit and Finish not upto Industry standards".

What tata can do is take the Aria platform, build a sedan on it (Any price) and then hand over the fit and finish to the Parent Jaguar Team and bring out a product that is Quality wise good and Fit and finish is on par with Rivals. This product alongside with Aria, Merlin etc can be slotted on a different Band and Brand. If a new brand is achieved, there will be a fresh and open perception from the people and the proof should it be its products. If the can bring Skoda Quality in their range (At least Merlin / Aria) and open new service centers for their premium range, then Tata can see thier name syncing with quality and fit and finish.

Paralllelly they could also ask some JLR Team folks to identify why the fit and finish is bad and they could come with something that will bring in a leap.

In Mahindra Scorpio's coffee table book it says that Mahindra spoke about a problem and gave it to the supplier / vendor to fix it. they came up with innovative solutions and helped overcome the problem. Tata can call his plastic supplier / mould supplier and ask the reason for inconsistent panel gaps. At the very least, Hire some people from Toyota / Honda / any of the British manufacturers and get thier expertise on how to get fit and finish & Quality. If Volkswagen India can achieve quality from supliers, Tata a veteran in india than Volkswagen should make it a cakewalk.

[rangarx]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

Being a Tata Vista user for almost a year and a half now, with 22K kms driving on bad roads and good roads, I would say Tata has come a long way in terms of reliability and build quality. This with what could be said of an Economy hatch, I can Imagine what it will be with the ARIA.
I am currently in Hyderabad where I drove down from Pune with my mom and our pet dog. The drive of almost 600 kms, with only one 30 minute break at Solapur to visit my aunt and a couple quick pee breaks. When we reached Hyderabad in the morning, I wasnt tired at all, yes, I was the only driver! My mom and dog were both pretty comfortable and fresh!
Even after all the abuse that happens on the road, my car does not rattle/ vibrate!
Kudos to Tata.


The ARIA is an aspirational vehicle for me currently, cant wait to own one!

Moved by the achievement made by my desi car company!

Hope this reflects in sales too.

I think Aria 4X2 has got all guns going against the overpriced Innova