[deepakhon]

@GTO,

Saying that the review was excellent is stating the obvious.

It is good that manufacturers have started considering team-bhp for new car reviews. A very good development I should say. This goes on to say how much team-bhp has matured in years, starting from a small community of enthusiasts to growing so big that manufacturers have started taking it seriously.

I had a chance to take a look at Punto yesterday at Concorde Motors, Mysore Road. I did not opt for a test drive as there were at least around 10 people before me, and all I would have got was a 2 km test drive, as I got for Linea. I am hoping that I will wait for a couple more weeks and after the dust settles down, I will take a longer test drive.

Few of points to mention:

1. The rear leg room, at least for me was decent enough. I have not sat in an i20 or a Jazz for a fair comparison, but to me, it looked more or less as much as my Palio. My build is such that I need more width than leg room

2. As mentioned by so many, the dashboard consumes huge space.

3. The clutch is ultra-light compared to my Palio.

4. The steering is a size smaller than Palio, and I actually liked it. After driving Fiesta 1.6S with such a steering, I had begun to like the smaller steerings, and this one on Punto looks and feels good.

5. The interior quality was so so, but was better than Palio.

6. Boot space is good.

7. E+ looks good with 190/60-R15 tyres.

8. The MJD did not sound much from outside, as compared to Swift D.

[amit]

Originally Posted by d_payne

My only fear is that the "low FE" sentiment might catch on quickly with the Indian masses and spoil this product's success.

Why do you think so? I am guessing the sales ratio will be heavily skewed towards the MJD (70:30) which wouldn't give rise to those concerns. Take a look at Linea, no one so far thinks that the car is low on FE. Also, I think the market has matured just a bit from 2002.

I don't expect the "cramped rear" to be such a deal-breaker (look at the Swift!!) since the car has jaw-dropping looks and good price to off-set that (just as the Swift has Maruti's name behind it).

That's what I was thinking. If the cramped room didn't stop the Swift and Octavia from becoming a sales success then why should it stop the Punto?

What would be interesting to see would be the August / Sepetember sales of the fast dying Fabia. I think the Punto may just hammer the last nail into the Fabia's coffin.

[Spals]

Great Review GTO. But i can only say that now i am more confused on which car to buy. I am looking for one in the range of 6 to 7 lacs and untill i read ur review i was fixed on Swift Dizire ZDI, though it was a bit over my bidget i was good safety features. Now i cant decide betweeen the Dizire and Punto.

- I have seen and driven the petrol version of Punto few months back in Brazil, i love its looks

- Pls advice me on the space, Driveability and if its worth leaving a sedan (Dizire) and maruti service and spares.

[ntrack]

The PCD of all Fiat cars is 98mm.

Some info on PCD of various models:

All Maruti cars-100mm (except Esteem, old Zen, 800 & Omni - 114.3mm)
All Hyundai cars - 100mm
All Ford cars - 108mm (except Sumo & Safari - 160mm)
All Tata cars - 108mm (except Endeavour - 130.7mm)
All GM cars - 114.3mm
All Skoda cars - 100mm
All Honda cars - 100mm
All Toyota cars - 100mm (Except Innova - 114.3mm)
Mahindra Scorpio - 160mm
Mahindra Xylo - 120mm
Renault Logan - 100mm
Mitsubishi Lancer / Cedia - 100mm
Ambassador - 152.4mm

[royalcruiser]

Fabulous review, GTO! Confirmed quite a bit of my impressions about the short TD that I went for last week

I had the brochure with the feature list of all the variants. IMO, it makes sense to go for either Active (with a change of tyres) or the top-end variants. The Dynamic didnt make much sense as it offers only additionally - fabric inserts in the door arm rest, central locking, rear power windows.

[tj123]

Very well articulated review,Congrats GTO.

I would like to highlight couple of points which will of very crucial buying factor for people of Bangalore/Smaller cites.

1. Low ground clearance 160mm of GP is too low, considering the notorious speed breakers of Bangalore.

2. Large turning circle will also be a big negative in small cities where you have to U turns.

Every one is talking about Diesel , why no body is talking about petrol engines , GTO can you please elaborate on you GP 1.2 petrol experience also. I know its an underpowered one but still.

Finally as I expressed it earlier in my comment the petrol engines offered by GP are no where near to it competitors (Kappa/K series ) in FE & performance.

I think GP should borrow the new K series from Ritz & plonk it a GP that will make a fun car to drive.

If GP want to sell in large volumes it must work on the FE factor like the Suzuki’s.

[ntrack]

sorry....a mis-match between SUVs of Tata & Ford above

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Slick

I have always had this doubt about diesels, How long lasting is the engine because in the past the diesel engines were notorious for causing problems after a few years.

Diesel ought to last as long as it does in the Swift etc. I can't offer any further comments on this, but will state that the longetivity of common-rails is still not proven in the Indian context. Thousands of us who own crdi's but few who have gone over 1.5 lakh kms yet. I guess only time will tell.

Originally Posted by d_payne

Excellent review as always! The new way of beginning the reviews with the highlights of pros and cons is superb, pretty much sums it up and serves as an appetizer for the entire thing.

We're always finding ways to improve. If you have any other suggestions, please drop a PM.

One query though: The rubbery gearshift does not find a mention in the cons. Is it because its not such a big deal or deal-breaker?

Nope, not a deal breaker at all. It was the last thing on my mind when I was working through the revvs on the 1.4 petrol.

is it possible to extend these reviews to more than just "brand new car" launches?

70 cars x 4 days = 1 entire working year!! . I feel our Test Drive database (on the portal) tells one of every substantial pro / con with each car. However, I assure you that each new car launch will be covered in the same (or higher) detail as the Punto.

My only fear is that the "low FE" sentiment might catch on quickly with the Indian masses and spoil this product's success.

The diesel - which will account for 70% of the sales - is actually very fuel efficient.

I don't expect the "cramped rear" to be such a deal-breaker

It's not cramped. Just not large by big hatch standards.

Originally Posted by sushanthr77

Dear GTO, can you compare the rear legroom / space in Punto to it's competition? (separated by > symbol)

Let me try : Indica Vista > Getz > Punto = i20 > Swift (or the i20 is a tad lesser than Punto). This is just a rough guesstimate so don't quote me.

Originally Posted by deepakhon

It is good that manufacturers have started considering team-bhp for new car reviews. A very good development I should say. This goes on to say how much team-bhp has matured in years, starting from a small community of enthusiasts to growing so big that manufacturers have started taking it seriously.

I concur. Actually, the manufacturers are now ready to give the car for detailed 10 - 30 day roadtests. The only current limitation is time, but we will finalise some operational systems in the near future to allow for this.

Originally Posted by Spals

- Pls advice me on the space, Driveability and if its worth leaving a sedan (Dizire) and maruti service and spares.

Drive them back to back, then analyse your exact needs and open up a thread in the "What Car" forum.

Originally Posted by tj123

1. Low ground clearance 160mm of GP is too low, considering the notorious speed breakers of Bangalore.

It's actually 171 / 173 mm for the diesel / petrol.

GTO can you please elaborate on you GP 1.2 petrol experience also. I know its an underpowered one but still.

Didn't drive it. Didn't want to.

If GP want to sell in large volumes it must work on the FE factor like the Suzuki’s.

The 1.3 diesel accounts for 65 - 70% of all Swift sales. Fiat has a fitting answer for that market.

[narayan]

Originally Posted by amit

That's what I was thinking. If the cramped room didn't stop the Swift and Octavia from becoming a sales success then why should it stop the Punto?

.

precisely - this rear legroom thing is too overhyped

most buyers would be small families and the rear legroom would hardly matter in almost all driving situations ( where it would be a kid sitting there )

so this feature is not really that important and "must have "

[d_payne]

Originally Posted by amit

Why do you think so? I am guessing the sales ratio will be heavily skewed towards the MJD (70:30) which wouldn't give rise to those concerns. Take a look at Linea, no one so far thinks that the car is low on FE. Also, I think the market has matured just a bit from 2002.

Fair enough, the MJD should be a good enough point to buy the car. BUT, the Punto MJD is also the costliest of the lot - Vista/Swift/Ritz - with only the uber-expensive Fabia being priced higher.

IMO, this is a line-up which would have been nice to see:

1. 2 variants in 1.2 engine form. Higher FE, same power as a petrol Fabia/lower than i20. This would be the higher FE, more refinement, petrol preference.
2. 1 sports/Emo+ variant in 1.6 engine form. Range topper, priced same as diesel topper continuing from where the Palio left off. FE would not be a concern but it would be unique in the segment.
3. Existing MJD variant, no changes.

This would have hypothetically targetted:

- 1.2 vs Swift Petrols (opt for it more power but cramped cabin)
- 1.2 vs Ritz Petrol (more FE, new engine but no boot)
- 1.2 vs i20 (Better interiors, more power but higher price)
- 1.2 vs Fabia Petrol
- 1.3 MJD vs Swift Diesel (Maruti name and price but no safety)
- 1.3 MJD vs Ritz Diesel (Maruti name and price but no safety and no boot)
- 1.3 MJD vs Vista Diesel (Spacious and cheaper but no safety)
- 1.3 MJD vs Fabia Diesel

This is of course assuming the dZire is left out of the equation and Palio is just too outdated.

As it stands, most of it is true already. The 1.4 engine kinda seems like a on-the-fence option by Fiat. Neither here nor there and not exactly best of all worlds. *shrugs*

Saw it on the road in Silver btw. Also checked out the Jazz which is quite unassuming in looks.

Cheers!
Payne

[neotraveller]

Just to re-inforce this point as this seems to be the most discussed issue (deal-breaker?) for Punto.

For the potential buyer in this segment .... between GP/Swift/I20,
GP seems to have the most rear legroom!

Originally Posted by GTO

Let me try : Indica Vista > Getz > Punto = i20 > Swift (or the i20 is a tad lesser than Punto). This is just a rough guesstimate so don't quote me.

[deepakhon]

Originally Posted by GTO

Actually, the manufacturers are now ready to give the car for detailed 10 - 30 day roadtests. The only current limitation is time, but we will finalise some operational systems in the near future to allow for this.

This is interesting. If they give the car for testing about 1-1.5 months before the car gets released, or even before, they could iron out a lot of problems before the car gets into production.

Maybe, you should create a thread to brainstorm operational details on how to test drive the car for about 10-30 days. I guess team-bhpians in those particular cities where the car will get tested should definitely help doing the job to an extent.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Spals

Great Review GTO. But i can only say that now i am more confused on which car to buy. I am looking for one in the range of 6 to 7 lacs and untill i read ur review i was fixed on Swift Dizire ZDI, though it was a bit over my bidget i was good safety features. Now i cant decide betweeen the Dizire and Punto.

- I have seen and driven the petrol version of Punto few months back in Brazil, i love its looks

- Pls advice me on the space, Driveability and if its worth leaving a sedan (Dizire) and maruti service and spares.

Spals to be very straight forward.. there is absolutely no comparison as far as the products themselves are concerned. Punto is a far far better car than the Dzire and looks like million dollars.
I think we have to let go of mentality, bigger is better. Dzire is nothing but a boot slapped on to Swift which has in turn spoiled the looks and the handling. As far as driveability is concerned, Punto is surely better.
The only concern that remains is the A*S*S but as far as my experience from my last service is concerned, they have improved a lot with the following up and feedback.
I would advice you to go for the Punto.

[Spals]

Thanx a ton for the reply e_t. from your reply i feel i need to have a test ride and then there will be no questions for me. After sales service has sure improved (After TATA JV) i own an indica and i could see the improvement in tata over the last two years. But how about the cost of maintanance, and then the initial cost 7 lacs for a hatch back? If the drive feel is so good then i will go with it

[extreme_torque]

@spals.. yes the best thing to do is to test drive both cars as GTO suggested. Regarding cost of maintenance, the service interval for Punto is 15k kms vis vis 10 k kms for Maruti diesels. The localization content by the end of this year would be more than 85% meaning that the cost of spares would be low. At the launch Fiat specifically mentioned the *** and the cost of spares as being lowest in its segment and I have no reason not to believe them. Fiat doesnt want past issues to haunt them again.