[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

1) F.E figures - onroad and off road. (not many newbies would realize that ~10Kmpl in city would go down to 3-4Kmpl in 4W-L, my guesstimation, try to get real measured figures)

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Cyrus, the thar came from kandivali with a full tank of 60litres. We finished it at approx 350kms on the odo. Refilled 10litres. Off roaded exactly for 30 min at mahape and drove back 35kms and finished the 10litres (needle came back to where it was before refuelling). Do the math.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

As far as i know FE was not in the list of things when the test drive agenda was finalized. It was just an observation that happened.

Just re-posted today morning as a afterthought, didnt realize there is a story behind the FE during the test runs. 5.xx KMPL, on highways...!!! 3.5~ on off-roading is ok and irrelevant.Who ever is claiming it was not a timed/tested/standard testing conditions - please - it is supposed to be like that. A vehicle of this caliber never does sedate driving at 65Kmph in top gear on the left lane at 2AM on deserted mumbai streets to achieve top FE figures...!!!

Any scorpio or Xylo does not give such low numbers even if red lined for 1 whole day. And if the excuse is 'it is just a testing vehicle' - please, be prepared for guys like me to bring up such questions...!! Power isnt every thing always.

Oh, i still cant digest the fact that inspite of knowing the whole online community is awaiting a TD - the test vehicle was ill-prepped like it was.

PS - Khan, Tejas - Any pics of the adventurer? Would be worthy to NOTE how that 9L~ ""LIFESTYLE"" vehicle was presented to you guys. I am sure you have a few pics.

PPS - Khan & Tejas -- Damn, looks like you meditated the yin and yang out of your brains for days to point out the 'thorns'. If you did, you wasted a million brain cells to point out the thorns since it was really was a no-brainer...!! They do stick out on the face.

But one thing is for sure, both you guys take lot of rest before 28th jan - you are going to face a lot of questions inside a jungle.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

5.xx KMPL, on highways...!!! 3.5~ on off-roading is ok and irrelevant.

Its more like ~5-6 overall which includes, highspeed, OTR and idling. And it is just a rough estimate. For all we know the fuel gauge is completely off the mark and hiding another 20 liter of diesel. I know of a 550 which can do this.

[navpreet318]

After looking at this thread over and over again.Reading everyone's opinions etc.I think i would buy this Jeep.I don't do the kind of OTR's that you guys do but i work at a hydroelectric power project in Uttarkashi.

We have a range of mahindra vehicles.Cargo jeeps,boleros,scorpios etc.Once out of the showroom they have never seen the authorized workshop ever.Warranty is the least of our concern.

If i recall correctly they i have seen more that a lakh kms of the odometer of all of them.

And they are abused.Big time abused.they are used by company drivers.i think they have had their oil changed only once and that too at our in house makeshift workshop.They take massive payloads.we have had a couple of them on which boulders from the tunnel have fallen.But yet they have never failed.The body has been damaged and then repaired in house but the suspension never gave up.

Oh yes did i tell you that the tunnel is full of concrete muck and the suspension is perpetually covered in concrete.Because of which i have had to get the safari's complete suspension changed twice.

I have had my share of bad quality interiors etc.I think its a decent proposition.If there is a dealer fitment of the AC available then i'm good to go.Also a dealer option for a removable hardtop would be great too.
If not then if i get it made outside then the warranty should not be hurt in any way.

I hope the people behind this jeep are reading this.

I am now over that period of cribbing over bad interiors,bad this, bad that.Frankly there is no other jeep which we can buy straight from the showroom and drive it to higher reaches of the himalayas for example.
And i have never considered buying a used vehicle.Never have.Its just a personal belief.So for a person like me this is the ideal thing to own.Throw in two bucket seats like the adventure in the rear and i'm good to go.

Frankly I don't care if its got ABCDEFGH.to hell with it.

The places we work are very treacherous by my standards and if they can be done with some skilled driving from my drivers and me then this one will too.


I'm buying one!


Oh yes another thing i wanted to ask.I haven't really followed the Thar's progress.But i remember reading Mr.Behram Dhabhar's post once that the thar was basically a jeep shell on a Scorpio chassis and engine.So what happened to that? this engine is definitely not the scorpio's.So what happened to that project?

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

PS - Khan, Tejas - Any pics of the adventurer? Would be worthy to NOTE how that 9L~ ""LIFESTYLE"" vehicle was presented to you guys. I am sure you have a few pics.[/b]

It wasn't presented to us. We just stopped by on our way back at a showroom to get some specs of the stock thar, enquire about AC (which was quoted to us as Rs.48,000 dealer fitment! ), etc.

The adventure was parked outside so we just took a few snaps.

When the sales lady came out and saw the condition of "our" thar all she asked: "how many thousand kms have you done?" "why would you do this to the car?"

So much for salesperson knowledge. Anyways, can't blame her, most sales guys of nearly every car manufacturer are quite clueless.

Regarding FE:

My classic has done the same runs in one and a one-quarter tank fulls (classic is a 30litre tank approx).

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Frankly there is no other jeep which we can buy straight from the showroom and drive it to higher reaches of the himalayas for example.

ehm one small clarification, hope you are one of the purist who will not call a Gypsy a Jeep. Any new M&M with 4x4 and some even with 4x2 should be able to do the above quoted part. Matter of fact Nano has done it also.

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I have right from version 1 till date. Milecruncher owns one of the current gen, maybe he can comment further.

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

We have a brand new bolero too, and the fit and finish is debatable.

Having driven the prototype vehicle in May, I had more or less made up my mind about buying the THAR when it got launched. But seeing the final launched vehicle fit and finish has me stumped as they are not too different from 521. If the THAR interior fit and finish is taken as a benchmark "1" then my Bolero VLX which Cyrus also has is definitely "5".

And not to forget the steering misalignment issue, I checked and its the same in the Bolero also. Steering about 2 mm left from the Driver Seat centreline. I hadn't noticed it till now and on carefully checking found it prevalent in the Bolero. I have had numerous long drives on the Bolero without fatigue so I think am qualified to say that it won't be a reason for driver discomfort. The wiper stalk in my Bolero is also badly placed but is not fouling as much its in the THAR.

All I now want is the Marketing and R&D team to make the necessary "Engineering Change Notices" based on preliminary customer/TG feedback.

My chequebook is ready but the product is sadly not

Cheers

[navpreet318]

I am no purist-shurist man! I am just a guy who wants to enjoy driving to good places in a decent looking and feeling jeep.The gypsy is great but the problem is the petrol part.and the seat part.I don't find it comfortable.the steering angle is weird.Simple.and the fact that we have a diesel pump at our site and no petrol for quite some distance is another fact.

By the way i also own a Royal Enfield so it also makes me a person with a lot of patience and understanding of the shortcomings of a company.Atleast M&M is better than RE.LOL

Moreover i don't want to do the journey in a nano.i want to do it in a smart jeep man!who will like the pics on Facebook then? :P


A small question for the M&M team: What is the price of the adventure variant and can it be ordered as a factory built unit or do i have to get it done outside.Also from when will the adventure variant be available?

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Cyrus,

Please see the below pic. The distance covered between the two pics is 99.5kms as indicated by the odo. Now check the fuel level indicator.

Waiting for your reply to this. And no, we did not steal your diesel.



On another note: To be fair to the Thar, the off centre steering wheel placement did not bother me. Noticed it immediately when i sat down but forgot about it in the next 2 minutes and was not uncomfortable due to that from there on (the other issues like left foot placement, steering reach, etc did bother me a lot though). This doesn't mean that it's a not a design oversight.

Disclaimer: I'm an ex-classic owner, so the space in the Thar was premium first class luxury for me. Khan what about you, did the steering placement bother you or not?

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Spike,

You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT the Reinforcement Channel is there under 2 Body Mounts under the Tub/Before the Wheel/Rear Shock Absorber.

http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-01.jpg

This is noticed in very original body shells (not repaired)

This Reinforcement Channel usually fill s up with dust and rusts away and when body beds are replaced, taller Body Beds are fitted (Commander Kit).

The Noticeable Difference in the NGCS Body Mounts are Heavier Body Mounts on the Chassis, and Wider Channels under the Body and Heavier Brackets.

Please treat this as a personal apology.

I do not wish to bias an unbiased Review.

Regards,

Arka

Arka, no need for apologies man. We take all comments in good sense. I can understand you comparing a Solid axle and IFS, but when you compare an Apple and Orange, I found it difficult to digest. That is the reason why I stood by my statement "It is not a body lift". It takes courage (read BXXXS) to stand up and speak the truth, I like this attitude of yours. I also know you don't come online during these hours, you logged in just to correct that error of yours.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Stick to the suspension readings, was all that within allowed limits after that so called 15k kms? or dont you guys check it also?

Jaggu bhai, it is finally the feel when it comes to Suspension & Steering (does the vehicle pull, is there any change in steering effort, how is the returnability, is there any feathered wear etc. This is the precise reason a road test is recommended after a wheel alignment job. Careful observation of the tires spells out most of these. For 521, everything is normal.

Spike

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

But seeing the final launched vehicle fit and finish has me stumped as they are not too different from 521. If the THAR interior fit and finish is taken as a benchmark "1" then my Bolero VLX which Cyrus also has is definitely "5".

Thank you for the honest reply.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

I am no purist-shurist man! I am just a guy who wants to enjoy driving to good places in a decent looking and feeling jeep.The gypsy is great but the problem is the petrol part.and the seat part.
=========
Moreover i don't want to do the journey in a nano.i want to do it in a smart jeep man!who will like the pics on Facebook then? :P
==========
A small question for the M&M team: What is the price of the adventure variant and can it be ordered as a factory built unit or do i have to get it done outside.Also from when will the adventure variant be available?

a) Gypsy being petrol is a HUGE disadvantage for your use. Seats are not coz you have not yet sat in Thar. I have (sat and driven both) and the overall position was really bad, i had serious cramps on my right ankle after 15 mts of city drive. Just like what one gets by shifting in an Yezdi, ie if you are not used to it.

b) I know you are an adventurer but up there in sub zero temperature, i would prefer hard topped vehicle, be it Thar, Gypsy or Nano.

c) It can be done. Buy the vehicle from your dealer, ship it to M&M customization, choose the options (one we see in picture is approx 2 lakhs worth if am not mistaken). Pay for mods+transportation up and down and ~ 2 months for them to execute. Adventure is yours. This is what i have understood.

EDIT

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Jaggu bhai, it is finally the feel when it comes to Suspension & Steering (does the vehicle pull, is there any change in steering effort, how is the returnability, is there any feathered wear etc. This is the precise reason a road test is recommended after a wheel alignment job. Careful observation of the tires spells out most of these. For 521, everything is normal.

Spike

Though i agree a drive check is good, its not the final word. Alignment readings are. Or else you will land up with worn tyres which can be quite expensive these days. If the tyre wear was normal then That is a good thing and i will take your word that nothing was attended to.

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

....
Disclaimer: I'm an ex-classic owner, so the space in the Thar was premium first class luxury for me. Khan what about you, did the steering placement bother you or not?

The off-center steering does bother you when you see it for the first time and and sit there. However, when you drive, after some time you get over it. But it's there and people who have always driven regular sedans/hatchbacks will feel uncomfortable seeing it.

Space in front is a + point of the Thar and has been mentioned in the post itself alsong with the wide opening doors & ease of entry/exit

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

...I liked the feeling of spaciousness in the cabin, as well as the commanding view from the driver’s seat. If you pull the seats all the way back, there is acres of space for both, the driver and the co-passenger:

[Xinger]

After all the thousands of posts pre and post launch, I have come to a few conclusions:

To the Offroaders:
This vehicle was NEVER meant for you at all. You are not the market, you are merely the image-builders. This is classic 'lifestyle marketing.' The whole legend of Harley Davidson motorbikes is built around the biker gang/outlaw lifestyle. But I would be surprised if bikers from gangs are even 5% of actual buyers. In fact, if their whole market the world over exclusively consisted of only bike gang members, Harley would have been out of business 50 years ago! But that does not mean Harley will not continue to spend millions of dollars, to actively promote this brand image through advertising, in-film product placement, video games, etc.

The Thar Hates Tar? Really? With that engine and that suspension?! The Thar is actually built for tar!! What I find surprising is that so many senior members of the offroading community actually fell for this whole ploy, and are now feeling offended that 'Oh first they asked for our opinion and when we gave them a list of all that we wanted, they threw all our valuable suggestions into the dustbin!' It was always just an exercise to create hype, guys (it succeeded, too!)

To The Lifestylers:
This vehicle was always pitched towards you. Guys who want to be seen to be tough, macho - the kind who might be involved in activities like offroading, the operative term being 'seen to be.' These people would never actually get their hands (or their tyres) dirty. They just want to drive up in a 'done-up' Jeep, and have all the other guys gathering around in envy; and all the pretty girls oohing and aahing, and wanting to be taken for a ride in it, albeit strictly on tarmac! I mean 140 km/hr top speed is perfect when you want to have a bunch of girls standing at the back, holding on to the rollbar (isn't that what it is for?) hair flying in the wind, screaming in excitement!!

Ah, but what about the quality of interiors, you say? Shouldn't a lifestyle vehicle necessarily at least give the impression of being upmarket? Well, no not really - Mahindra specifically put in the cheapest, flimsiest parts they could find because they always intended that the style-conscious buyer should throw them out as soon as he bought the vehicle. Then he would head straight for the Mahindra Customization department, which would then become the real profit generator. I am sure the future advertising and marketing of the Thar will heavily feature these (mostly cosmetic) customizations, starting with fat tyres, flashy alloys, and soft leather seats.

I mean, at about 9-10 lakhs (onroad price + customization) you get double the pose value of a 23 lakh Fortuner! What more could the average college boy or the 30+ guy with mid life crisis issues want?

The Thar Is Targeted At The Buyer Who Wants To Project This Image:


So He Can Actually Get To Do This:

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Thank you for the honest reply.



a) Gypsy being petrol is a HUGE disadvantage for your use. Seats are not coz you have not yet sat in Thar. I have (sat and driven both) and the overall position was really bad, i had serious cramps on my right ankle after 15 mts of city drive. Just like what one gets by shifting in an Yezdi, ie if you are not used to it.

b) I know you are an adventurer but up there in sub zero temperature, i would prefer hard topped vehicle, be it Thar, Gypsy or Nano.

c) It can be done. Buy the vehicle from your dealer, ship it to M&M customization, choose the options (one we see in picture is approx 2 lakhs worth if am not mistaken). Pay for mods+transportation up and down and ~ 2 months for them to execute. Adventure is yours. This is what i have understood.

............

Thanks for the clarification on the Adventure part.

Absolutely the hard top is an essential item.If you read my first post i have mentioned that AC and a removable Hard Top are the two things i need the most and if i get it done outside then M&M should not create any issues.

Well about the seating.I hope its something like the bolero or the armada grand atleast.Those are two cars i have driven a lot.

The only problem with the gypsy is that its steering is too close to the seat.It kind of creates a problem for us XXL size punjabis.hehe.

Moreover about the ride quality.I gather from this review that the ride quality is pretty good.Afcourse the ride from a leaf spring will only be as good as the leaf spring ever was but because of the light weight of the gypsy i have once had a very bad experience in the gypsy.The way it jumps only god can keep the food inside the stomach.LOL.

I just hope that with the extra weight the Thar is better on those roads.

We have a different approach to any bad or very bad patches on roads.We just power through them.I know its not good and its bad for the vehicle and its dangerous too.But thats where the fun lies.Just power through!



About the post above:Well you summed it up to an extent.Its a vehicle for those who want a jeep but don't have the time or a garage to build one.
And yes its about the feeling yes.Just like one buys a royal enfield, a tata safari, similarly a jeep.
I am a working guy.I only get a sunday to relieve myself off the stress.This will be my stress buster just like my bullet has been in the past one year.

But one thing i am sure of while buying this jeep is that whichever road i take it will get me through.be it to the shop at the corner of be it Leh.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Xinger

After all the thousands of posts pre and post launch, I have come to a few conclusions:
==========

The Thar Is Targeted At The Buyer Who Wants To Project This Image:
Attachment 478541

So He Can Actually Get To Do This:
Attachment 478542

As much as i hated reading your post. I 101% agree to it in the back of my mind

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Well about the seating.I hope its something like the bolero or the armada grand atleast.Those are two cars i have driven a lot.

I dont know much about the latest Bolero's.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

The only problem with the gypsy is that its steering is too close to the seat.It kind of creates a problem for us XXL size punjabis.hehe.

Am not a punjabi but with my 5 foot 10 inch slightly over weight frame i get a perfect seating position in a gypsy.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Moreover about the ride quality.I gather from this review that the ride quality is pretty good.Afcourse the ride from a leaf spring will only be as good as the leaf spring ever was but because of the light weight of the gypsy i have once had a very bad experience in the gypsy.The way it jumps only god can keep the food inside the stomach.LOL.

Thar ride is SUPERB compared to Gypsy in the front, am comparing stock vehicles.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

I just hope that with the extra weight the Thar is better on those roads.

As i said front there is a huge advantage, rear is just slightly better compared to a 550

Originally Posted by navpreet318

We have a different approach to any bad or very bad patches on roads.We just power through them.I know its not good and its bad for the vehicle and its dangerous too.But thats where the fun lies.Just power through!

Then you should love the Gypsy

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

As much as i hated reading your post. I 101% agree to it in the back of my mind

+1. Well said. Just one look at the Thar fanpage on facebook says it all: 60,000+ people like it. 99% of them call it the desi Hummer and the greatest off roader ever and what not. Makes for amusing reading sometimes.