[joybhowmik]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

I would like a suggestion on if its an absolute must to have ABS and AIRBAGS.

Excellent question.
There's no such thing that's an absolute must. It's all a matter of choice and circumstances.

Drivers in the 50s and 60s did not have ABS and Airbags, yet their were less accidents per capita in those times. Put it down to driving sanely - and treating the car as a machine , instead of as an extension to one's pride.

Lady Diana died in a crash - ironically in a car which had both side-curtain airbags and ABS. Put it down to non-use of seat belts and possibly a bad crash angle (hand of God?).


ABS and Airbags won't save you every time. They will be helpful in certain conditions and possibly save you from major injury.

ABS will save people by helping to bring the car to a complete stop in a straight line - under less than ideal braking conditions.

Airbags will save passengers , if they deploy before any protuberances from the crash puncture the passenger's body.

So before you invest...
Do you wish protection for these circumstances ? Do you think these circumstances have a significant probability of happening in your day to day usage?

if the answer to both the questions is yes - then you may want to invest - if the budget is right.

If not, then that's fine too!

[isandy]

As far as possible make both a non-negotiable in your car purchase, if need be, try to go for a cheaper car with these options.

However if you have eye only a particular car, then I would prefer to have ABS as that would to a degree prevent an accident. But trade off would be you have to drive a bit slowly and of course!! wear a seat belt all the time.

[pratyush6]

Do not agree with the proposition at all. Most cars that have Airbags - will have ABS. So choose the car with Airbags.

When I was in the market for my car, I could switch the brand but no way I could compromise on the build and safety.

[devyaaniverma]

A big thanks Saket, Joy, Sandy and Pratyush. It really helps me while you guys provide so many inputs. So i believe Swift ZXI stands first then. Are there any other good options in compact sedans or even hatchbacks with ABS and Airbags ? My budget cannot exceed 6.5 Ex Showroom. How's the Sail UVA? Somehow low the car, but no sure if that's the way to go.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

A big thanks Saket, Joy, Sandy and Pratyush. It really helps me while you guys provide so many inputs. So i believe Swift ZXI stands first then.

For this budget, it is the Swift ZXi. I wouldn't look at anything else.

Do wait for the updated version in case you aren't in a hurry for the car.

Anurag.

[devyaaniverma]

Sorry for 2 terrible typos in my last message. Focus towards Swift ZXI now. Iam just worried about the small boot. That is a turn off in Swift somehow.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

Sorry for 2 terrible typos in my last message. Focus towards Swift ZXI now. Iam just worried about the small boot. That is a turn off in Swift somehow.

If the boot is no problem then you need not look beyond Swift, the reasons are repeated everywhere.
However if boot is a crucial parameter, you need to -
Why don't you go window shopping, take quotes, bargain hard, you see a nice sensible deal, seal it.

That said, go through all the ownership & official reviews for the Sail: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2936175
It is a pretty competent car but dull and uninspiring.

I am sure there are other options too within that price range, another car that immediately comes to my mind is Ritz ZXI, similar to Swift, except for on the edge handling but has a bigger boot.
What about Figo D, will it come in that price. (Sorry I do not know the OTR prices, + top-up discounts.)

Do outline the factors influencing your purchase decision, helps get a clearer picture, like passengers, your daily distance, trips, age groups etc.
And yes, pick one with both Airbags and ABS, you cannot retrofit them in case you decide to a year down.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

Sorry for 2 terrible typos in my last message. Focus towards Swift ZXI now. Iam just worried about the small boot. That is a turn off in Swift somehow.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

If the boot is no problem then you need not look beyond Swift, the reasons are repeated everywhere.

That said, go through all the ownership & official reviews for the Sail: It is a pretty competent car but dull and uninspiring.

Agree with the choice of the Swift ZXI, if you can live with that boot. It is puny

SAIL -UVA : It is a very dull looking car.

Other options:

1. Figo will come in easily - though the non existent rear power windows are a royal pain. The car is average across all parameters, does not too many things great or bad. Ticks most boxes. Though almost outdated.
2. i10 Grand: You should give it a test drive. I am not a big fan of the Hyundais but a lot of people like it.
3. Punto EVO: For me the best of the lot. On the slightly expensive side. But boy, that car is a total package - Make sure you check it out, even if you don't end up buying it. I am in love with the car. It is sturdy, safe and absolute blast to drive.

I do not see any other car worth mentioning.
Disclaimer: I own a Diesel Figo among the three in my stable. And it is still fun to drive.

[commonman]

Prefer to have ABS ,so that the need of Airbags don't come. In case of a frontal crash definitely need Airbags. Thoughts and wishes don't materialize easily. So most preferred ABS then Airbags.

[YaeJay]

That is a tough choice to make. Both are important and serve their purpose. If I have to choose I would go with the airbags. Why? Because not all accidents are caused by the one that is driving. All one has to do is drive at speeds where he or she has control. Wet slippery road, reduce speed drive with caution. ABS has no effect if some nutcase rams on to someone in total control of his set of wheels. There are also situations where the ABS does not have time to react.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

No one expects the car if front of you not to have brake lights and stop all of a sudden without warning in the middle of a two lane road, I wish I was driving a truck as I would have moved him down.

80% of the trucks do not have a working brake light. For decades. So how do you spot a truck that panic brakes because some nitwit that crossed the road? You will see smoke as the tyres lock up. If they hit someone or ran over that nitwit, you will also see two characters sprinting so fast as that you are reminded of Ben Johnson on a starvation diet. It is improving though. Drive at speeds that allow you to stop before you rear end a truck. And never follow a truck. Driving between two and overtaking between two slow moving trucks is asking for trouble.

Mods please merge the posts. If ABS is more important what is the need of seat belts? Airbags work in tandem with seat belts. ABS works. should work without seat belts. If it does atleast then we will see more friends strapping up. All said in a healthy view.

Mod Note: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

[devyaaniverma]

How does driving affect these things. Iam not sure if i speed a lot, even on highways just about 100. Iam just looking into factors that suggest ABS and Airbags are a single point agenda to buy. 80% of driving would be in the city, how does ABS help ? can anyone share some light ?

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

how does ABS help ? can anyone share some light ?

Search the forum you will find tonnes of info.

In short: ABS will help you maneuver the car in case of emergency braking. It does not lock (hence the name - Anti Lock) the wheels. I am not very sure if there is a certain speed that ABS kicks in - it should ideally be any hard breaking condition.

A lot of debate has gone whether or not someone needs ABS & Airbags specially in Indian conditions - Personally, I am not sure what the fuss is all about.
My logic of choosing both are simple - even if I have a 10% chance of surviving a bad crash, I would take it, rather than make it even less. ABS & Airbags definitely increase your chances of walking away in a crash - why wouldn't one opt for it?

Below is an example of the past one week in trying to choose a car with or without ABS & Airbags:

One of my colleague is about to buy a car, and I after spending so much time with him have been able to convince him, the eventual difference in case of an EMI will be in a few thousands - is it too much to pay for the safety and security of you and your loved ones? He was initially interested in a Swift VXI - now managed to get him to change to a ZXI - All for his good.

[joybhowmik]

Originally Posted by devyaaniverma

can anyone share some light ?

devyaaniverma
Scenario 1
You are driving down a main city street at 50 kmph, there's light traffic behind you and in front of you. For argument's sake, let's say you are in the fast lane. It's night time and visibility is poor because the street lights are not working. Say the streets are wet from rain.

Suddenly a beggar urchin boy steps out from the median and on to the pavement - barely 50 meters away. Noticing that you are coming right on, he decides to move ahead and cross the road.
What do you do - Slam the brake and swerve - right?

What happens? the car starts to skid and you loose steering control.
With the car out of control-you find yourself hurtling towards the boy who by the way refuses to budge from his spot because he is petrified.
No prizes for guessing what happens next. It's all over in 5 seconds.

How would ABS have helped? When the wheels started locking, ABS would have let the brakes go for a fraction of a second, so that the wheels could still rotate, thus giving you directional control. And you could have safely swerved out of the way.


Scenario 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woDWyxP6uV0

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by GTO

Mod Note: Public Poll Added





This is grossly misleading . I don't want to take the thread anymore off-topic, but please do NOT recommend that a human pumping the brakes can even come close to the speed & accuracy of an ABS. Modern ABS can engage / disengage the ABS 10 - 15 times a second; it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE to match that....even for Formula 1 drivers.

Today's ABS can also apply / disengage braking pressure to selective wheels. Again, not possible in a non-ABS car.

Lastly, in an absolutely critical situation, you wouldn't have the presence of mind to focus on 'pumping & mimicking the ABS effect'. I for sure wouldn't. If you do have the presence of mind, an ABS would have already done its work before you even start acting on the locked wheel.

If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on this thread. Thanks!

At the outset, let me make it clear that I would always choose the car/ model with all possible safety features. So for me it would be front and side airbags, curtain airbags, ABS with EBD and also VCS/ ESC (stability control) if possible. As technology progresses, I will constantly add new must have safety features to the above list.

Now coming to your point, there is no doubt that no human driver can come close to ABS. However, a good driver can try to pump the brakes and can be perhaps 25% as effective as an ABS system. On the other hand, there is nothing a driver can do to make up for the lack of airbags at all! Hence in this scenario, I would go for airbags as I can try to keep my speeds sensible, I can take slow turns, I can keep a safe distance from vehicles ahead and I can try to slow down whenever in doubt. All this still doesn't prevent accidents of course. However, there is a lot I can do to try and prevent the wheels locking but there is practically nothing I can do to make up for the lack of airbags. I hope you get my point: one can try to emulate the ABS system while braking but one can't do anything to emulate the airbags.

I don't doubt the efficacy of ABS. It is a great safety tool and should be mandatory on all vehicles. Recently I had an unusual experience where ABS showed its usefulness at low speeds. I was driving to a mall for lunch and was on a two lane road full of traffic. As I entered a small bend that had a right hand slope, I saw a small truck parked on the left. It was partially blocking my side of the road. I stopped and waited for the traffic to clear on the opposite side and then pulled around this truck at around 20-30 kmph. As soon as I did this, another vehicle pulled out from behind this stopped truck. This vehicle had stopped on the wrong side of the road for some reason and just pulled out real fast without looking. I slammed on the brakes like never in my life. There was practically no reaction time. I felt ABS and ESP kick in and the brake pedal pulsed like I have never felt in my life. However my car stopped in time and did not slide down the slope towards oncoming traffic. This reinforces the need for ABS in even slow speed scenarios.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

However, a good driver can try to pump the brakes and can be perhaps 25% as effective as an ABS system. On the other hand, there is nothing a driver can do to make up for the lack of airbags at all! Hence in this scenario, I would go for airbags as I can try to keep my speeds sensible, I can take slow turns, I can keep a safe distance from vehicles ahead and I can try to slow down whenever in doubt. All this still doesn't prevent accidents of course. However, there is a lot I can do to try and prevent the wheels locking but there is practically nothing I can do to make up for the lack of airbags. I hope you get my point: one can try to emulate the ABS system while braking but one can't do anything to emulate the airbags.

(My this post is not against airbags, my car has both)

I was driving somebody's Alto. The speed must have been below 80 on a SH. It was a smooth road with almost no traffic. From the headlamps, I can make out another car approaching from front. And in my left, I have a man walking along with his cycle. Now, I will have to slow down for the approaching car to pass. As I start braking, I see that this man is carrying two very long bamboos. Imagine how much of more length it occupied on road.

And this scenario was well camouflaged because of drizzle & darkness. I braked and one of the wheels started skidding on a banana leaf.

Because I was slow and my reaction time was good, I saved myself. But at that situation and other many situations which you will face driving in India (it is just so unpredictable) that it becomes essential to have a car with maximum safety features. ABS as well as Airbags.

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I am equally surprised to see quite a lot of posts by members saying they don't need ABS as they can drive conservatively and or reminiscent an ABS and or won't hard brake and there are many situations where you can't maneuver. I would politely ask them to log in more kilometers and outside your comfort zone to arrive at conclusions like these in varied vehicles.