[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think we are missing the main point. We, as a nation, are unable to drink responsibly. So in the interest of safety alcohol at or around highways MUST be banned. Our enforcement mechanism is also bent!

Come on, that's just going overboard. We have too little enforcement, urban drunk driving has decreased specifically because of those who do it are heavily penalised.

There are plenty of people who drink responsibly, banning something with no thought to the extent of the damage shows the extent of the disconnect. Its very easy to pontificate when you have no skin in the game.

The main point is that we have excelled in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[djpeesh]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think we are missing the main point. We, as a nation, are unable to drink responsibly. So in the interest of safety alcohol at or around highways MUST be banned. Our enforcement mechanism is also bent!

We as a nation have failed to stop crimes against women. What can we ban for that?

There are absolutely no shortcuts to dealing with the elephant in the room - law enforcement. The sooner we accept that the police forces in most states have failed, the easier it will be to put the country back on track.

[Stratosphere]

Originally Posted by djpeesh

We as a nation have failed to stop crimes against women. What can we ban for that?

There are absolutely no shortcuts to dealing with the elephant in the room - law enforcement. The sooner we accept that the police forces in most states have failed, the easier it will be to put the country back on track.

Truer words have never been spoken. Law enforcement is the single point of failure in our system. I believe everyone wants to follow the law. No one wants unnecessary hassles in their lives. But when they see that the guards of the society are themselves not interested, people can't help but test the boundaries of the law.

We Indians have become masters at taking the easy way out. Be it anywhere.

(Sorry if I sound wrong)

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Its very easy to pontificate when you have no skin in the game.

The main point is that we have excelled in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I agree. And the SC is more guilty than most given its exalted position, so they can now only get respect by threatening contempt of court, as in a farcical play.

Today's shocking news: A bench consisting of the CJI has said yesterday that highways within city limits could be considered as internal or district roads. That the ban was meant to ensure that alcohol was not available to drivers plying on fast moving highways, not those passing through cities. So why did they not say this in their decree?

Hold them accountable to pay for the mess caused by ill considered ivory tower decrees laid down by the SC itself then. But no, they are above all of us and exempt from accountability themselves. More banana republic behaviour, this.

Our problem isn't just enforcement; it also too many silly rules made by idiots, even English ones from before 1947. So that even the good rules can't be enforced because of diffused efforts.

Less rules, and more enforcement is what we need, but who is bothered about effectiveness? The more the rules, the more the opportunity for corruption.

Edit:
Some lawyers here ought to know: if all the hotels and bars now file a joint claim against the specific judges that made this not fully thought out decree, for compensation for loss of business of what must be amounting to over a hundred crores by now, will it be a claim that can be enforced under law?
If not, why not?

[DriverR]

Impact of the ban

Liqour ban along highways: UP suffers Rs 5,000 crore loss

The Uttar Pradesh government has incurred a loss of about Rs 5,000 crore following the Supreme Court order banning all liquor shops along national as well as state highways.
Of the 8,591 highway liquor shops affected by the Supreme Court order, 2,000 are yet to be relocated while 3,000 shop owners have surrendered their liquor licences.

It would be good to see what has been the number of road accidents for the same time period.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

Supreme court today has said that the government can denotify roads inside cities as highways and allow bars to run. This move will benefit many state governments as it had caused lot of grievances to both the state exchequer as well as the owners, workers in the industry.

By the looks of it, the SCI recognizes that this was an unexpected effect of their ruling. More important they are willing to amend it.

[GeneralJazz]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Some lawyers here ought to know: if all the hotels and bars now file a joint claim against the specific judges that made this not fully thought out decree, for compensation for loss of business of what must be amounting to over a hundred crores by now, will it be a claim that can be enforced under law?
If not, why not?

I don't think anything can be done about that. From what I read, the only action that can be taken against higher court judges is impeachment. And that's impractical.

I think this article is provides some info on this:

https://ccs.in/internship_papers/201...sha-tirkey.pdf

[Sawyer]

Interesting, and it says how the judiciary has to be independent of the executive and legislature. And that a FIR cannot be filed against a judge - what if the judge is a murder suspect though?

The article also says this: "The main task of judiciary is to dispense speedy justice and bring relief to the litigant".

But when the judges make decrees that have nothing do with the above, and when their boss essentially says that the decree was not fully thought through, why are these judges exempt from bearing the responsibility for commercial losses suffered by the people of India by their not thinking things through? Setting aside the question that this is none of their business in the first place. But if they choose to make it so, they should also be responsible for commercial losses suffered when they make mistakes. As we do.

If a class action suit or some such is filed here for commercial damages, it would be an excellent thing that would bring this subject to the fore. Not all public interest litigation needs be directed against the Government. Why not against judges?

Of course the SC will then bring a contempt of court charge against those filing such a case.

[Samurai]

Sanity has been finally restored....

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/60195764.cms

When the ban came into affect in July, SC realised that the ban was too broad as it affected 5-star hotels on prominent city roads. That means even the hotels frequented by VVIP/VIPs couldn't serve liquor anymore.

So SC clarified in July that Central government can allow denotifying highways within city limits. Unfortunately, it transferred the power to grant that wish to the hands of central government, and center decided to stick to ideology than reality.

Therefore, SC finally decided to undo the colossal damage caused by their blanket ban. So they have further clarified that their order doesn't cover highways within city limits. There is no need to denotify the highways within the city limits anymore. With that order, the power goes out of center's hands. States can start renewing licenses to bars within the city. Tens of thousands of businesses can reopen again.

Now only bars that are truly on the highway will remain closed and not the ones inside the city. This was the true intent of the order anyway.

[yoscenario2000]

IMO this will create a new headache.

More traffic jams in city areas since highway plying vehicles will enter city just to buy alcohol (if they intend to do so) and end up parking their vehicles roadsides to add their contribution in city traffic.

[ssambyal1980]

Though it was a wise step to curtail road accidents due to drunken driving but sadly in many states the authorities have circumvented the laws to overcome the ban on sale of liquor on highways. The state of Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are two examples wherein the government authorities have devised a novel ways to circumvent the ban. In case of Himachal Pradesh the authorities have down rated the State Highways (SH) to Major District Roads (MDR) so that the liquor vends located on these can continue with the sale as usual. This step will also lead to deterioration of already neglected State Highways as now the authorities will have the excuse of ignoring them on the pertext of these now being declared as Major District Roads.

Whereas in case of Punjab the government has amended its Excise Policy on liquor in March 2016 permitting liquor vends to operate on the highways passing through municipal limits. And the result of such callous move by the authorities is already there for everyone to see in the state of Punjab which has reported increase in road accidents and related fatalities due to drunken driving. According to a report, the number of such deaths increased in Punjab from 91 in 2015 to 197 in 2016—increase of 116.4 per cent. Cases of injuries also went up by 225.8 per cent. Quoting information procured under RTI from the Excise Department, the number of liquor vends in Punjab went up two times in the past decade from 5,632 liquor vends in 2005-06 to 12,000 in 2016-17.

Now this is surely quite a price to pay to maintain the steady revenue inflows through liquor sale.
__________________

[SJM1214]

‘Booze back on 70% of India’s highways’.

In the past year, almost 70% of the national and state highways across the country have been exempted from the Supreme Court’s order banning liquor shops within 500 metres of the stretches. If anything, the shops have returned with a vengeance, according to road safety activist Harman Sidhu, whose PIL led to the highway liquor ban.

“I am even more disappointed that Chandigarh, my home, took the lead in these exemptions,” says Sidhu who started NGO Arrive Safe more than 20 years ago after a road accident in the Morni Hills left him paralysed from the waist down. "It is unfortunate that Chandigarh showed the country how the order can be circumvented and defeated," Sidhu added.

He adds, “Under the present scheme of things, most highways either come under municipal corporations, municipal councils or gram panchayats, which have been given exemption. The result is that liquor vends have mushroomed more than ever before on them. I wonder where the Supreme Court order is actually being implemented today.”

News Source and Full Story :https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/63866766.cms

[SJM1214]

NHAI issues notice to 90 liqour vends on NH-44.

The NHAI has started issuing notices to liquor vends operating on highways without taking prior permission in accordance with the directions of the Punjab and Haryana high court.

The project implementation unit, Ambala, of the NHAI has begun the process to serve the notice after identifying 90 such liquor vends on NH-44 (old NH-1) from Panipat to Jalandhar. The move has come in response to a notice issued by the Punjab and Haryana high court on Saturday, seeking response from the NHAI regarding non-compliance of HC orders

News Source : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/63902920.cms

[Samurai]

Something has happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Originally Posted by Samurai

All this happened because police are not actively doing DUI enforcement. In the coastal area where I stay half the time, nobody is afraid of getting caught by DUI checks. Every night party involves heavy drinking and everybody drives back.

This attempt to reduce DUI via supply route is killing the hospitality industry and now destroying roads too.

I had repeatedly stressed that the much debunked supply side economics won't work here, like everywhere else. Since police were not enforcing the existing laws, it was hard to prove whether the DUIs caused by excess supply or lack of enforcement.

However, thanks to the new 10K fine for DUI violation, the police have perked up and have started strict enforcement. I have relatives in the bar/pub industry in areas where DUI enforcement was very lax until August 2019. Once the 10K DUI fine became effective, the police have really turned up the heat. Suddenly, the daily collection at the bars has gone down by 10-20% depending on the kind of crowd, and availability of auto/cab in the area. Patrons are preferring to drink at home (if then can), than risk getting caught for DUI. Since the official fine is 10K, even the bribe for avoiding the fine are also very high. It is simply not worth it.

Designated drivers are saviors now. Teetotaler friends who can drive are suddenly popular.

[airbus]

While in Guwahati recently, I saw different naming convention of Liquor shops. These shops are along NH-27 (old NH-37) in Jorabat area. I saw "SHOP OPEN" and "OPEN SHOP". I checked with my friend and he told me the secret