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Old 13th November 2020, 13:36   #496
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Going through GNCAP, I see a lot of variants of the same car, which get a low rating for variant without airbags and a rating of 2-3 stars higher with the additions of dual airbags.

So, I guess itís safe to assume that the top end variant with 6 airbags will get atleast a 4 star rating. The unstable rating on the body is very disappointing though.

Also is it prudent to assume that the Creta 2020 also will suffer the same fate on the tests, even though they are manufactured in 2 diff plants and potentially different suppliers of body parts?

For people assuming curtain airbags donít make any difference, please watch the GNCAP test video where the heads of the dummies whiplash to after the initial impact. And side airbags protect the ribs
And pelvis.

Iím seeing so much praise for Altroz and Nexon - but both donít offer curtain airbags in any variant. In most of the head on crashes the curtain airbags can potentially save head injury and life.

Iím ever surprised they got such a high rating without those airbags. Is there a subjective element involved in deciding the impact protection on particular part of the body? On the GNCAP Altroz video, The head impact protection was rated good, thought the head did have a whiplash into the B pillar. Didnít look Ďgoodí to me!

I just hope the ratings are ďtruly independentĒ.
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Old 13th November 2020, 13:49   #497
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Let's have a reality check guys.

Everyone in this group is bashing MS, Hyundai, Kia etc. however in real life, 95% of all Teambhpians itself, not just the entire country, gives a damn about safety. It's all talk. Safety is a bonus for most of us. It is inherent in us that nothing will happen to us; it will only happen to others.

Hardly anyone here buys a car just for the sole reason for it being safe. Then the only new cars here would have been Tatas, Mahindras and VAGs. When you go to buy a car you always look at the other stuff available in it, price, the features, convenience and most importantly what your family likes and is comfortable for them. Safety is a bonus you add to it. If it's an unsafe car, you will always find a reason to console yourself and make an excuse why you chose a Swift over a Polo.

Why didn't you convince yourself or your family, that the Polo is much safer, so let's let buy a lower variant Polo at the price of a Swift Zxi, cramp ourselves in there, have fewer features but at least we will be safe. The safer options were there, but you chose not to go down that route. If we had all done that, and the sales figures were the opposite, with Fiats, VAGs, Tatas and Mahindras on top, then MS, Hyundai, Kia would have upped their game. They wouldn't have done the cost-cutting like they do for India made products.

Take a breath, go down to your garage, look at your car/s and ask yourself. Did I give priority to safety for my family and me when I bought this car? If yes, give yourselves a pat in the back. Else promise yourself you will do that the next time and buy a Tata Nexon, Altroz or an XUV300 only. No use venting it out here. No one forced you to buy them. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Last edited by navin : 13th November 2020 at 14:07. Reason: typos
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:24   #498
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

What score did Seltos get in Adult Occupancy Protection? 8.03

What does it mean? The car BARELY scrapped through for 3 stars

What does Autocar say? The car is BODERLINE unstable

Last edited by Sheel : 13th November 2020 at 15:14. Reason: Smilie usage is restricted to 2 per post. Please gi through Forum Rules in Announcement section. Thanks.
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:30   #499
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
t look Ďgoodí to me!

I just hope the ratings are ďtruly independentĒ.
Please delete if irrelevant.
I find it very amusing to see members who think NCAP is biased. Anything that I like is superb and anyone saying something to the contrary is lying. Anything I don't like is a fake certification. Anyone saying something to the contrary is lying. Also, I know more than the PhD engineers from the best universities at NCAP. Everyone who does not like what I like is lying.

Not a personal attack by any means. Just an observation, which I really enjoyed reading. I relate to it a lot at work as well, especially in India. Thanks.

Last edited by Cessna182 : 13th November 2020 at 14:31.
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:37   #500
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Any particular reason for opting for the SPresso over the Tiago? When one is proven to be better than the other in terms of safety?

This question is not meant to be an attack. Just looking for your opinion on this matter.

The price difference between a SPresso VXI and a Tiago XZ is about ~1 lac. Lower if you consider festival discounts. That's a negligible difference in EMI terms.
The only reason is the nimbleness and ease of drive from my wife's point of view. She liked the high seating and narrow body of spresso. Safety related aspects were not even considered or debated.
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:44   #501
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
Going through GNCAP, I see a lot of variants of the same car, which get a low rating for variant without airbags and a rating of 2-3 stars higher with the additions of dual airbags.
You would have seen certain cars that got zero stars with no airbags and then got an updated rating of four stars etc when they were retested with airbags (ex. Volkswagen Polo and TATA Zest).

That is because without a driver side airbag any car gets a default zero rating in the GNCAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
So, I guess itís safe to assume that the top end variant with 6 airbags will get atleast a 4 star rating. The unstable rating on the body is very disappointing though.
No, it's not safe to assume anything as far as crash tests are concerned. Otherwise you would have some old uncle saying praising his Mahindra Scorpio for it's tough and robust build only to be rendered speechless when he sees the roof fold like tinfoil in the crash test video.

Standard crash tests give you an idea of how a car may perform in certain limited scenarios. They are not perfect by any means but they are a damn sight better than anyone "feelings" or "assumptions".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
Also is it prudent to assume that the Creta 2020 also will suffer the same fate on the tests, even though they are manufactured in 2 diff plants and potentially different suppliers of body parts?
As an extension of the previous statement no we can't assume anything.

What we can do is look at a manufacturers track record on safety. The Korean sisters (Hyundai and KIA) have never deemed Indians worthy of anything more than 3 star cars. All the while they have been selling much more safer versions of the same car abroad.

Look at it from that perspective and there is no way that I could hope for anything more than 3 stars for the Creta 2020 unless a standardized crash test shows otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
For people assuming curtain airbags donít make any difference, please watch the GNCAP test video where the heads of the dummies whiplash to after the initial impact. And side airbags protect the ribs
And pelvis.

Iím seeing so much praise for Altroz and Nexon - but both donít offer curtain airbags in any variant. In most of the head on crashes the curtain airbags can potentially save head injury and life.
GNCAP is mostly targeted at developing countries. The tests are involve a frontal overlap crash (there are side impact tests conducted but I am not sure if they influence the score yet).

I am not sure how an airbag is meant to reduce impact to the ribs and pelvis when even the base structure of these cars is unstable. Afterall, the other term for airbags is SRS which stands for 'supplemental restraint system'. With an unstable body structure that airbag is probably not going to do much good.

If in the future GNCAP takes electronic safety aids to calculate the overall score then it's score will be higher than the standard variant.

Also, if we are trying to provide a lifeline to Seltos then please remember than Mahindra sells the XUV3OO for a lost less than KIA Seltos and has got seven airbags with the highest score in GNCAP.

Are we going to say that a conglomerate like KIA can't match them in engineering prowess or that somehow KIA is lining the inside of their door pads with gold which increases it's cost substantially? No KIA has decided to position its car as feature loaded but didn't care about its safety. It's there prerogative.

But potential customers deserve to know about this beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharathan View Post
Iím ever surprised they got such a high rating without those airbags. Is there a subjective element involved in deciding the impact protection on particular part of the body? On the GNCAP Altroz video, The head impact protection was rated good, thought the head did have a whiplash into the B pillar. Didnít look Ďgoodí to me!

I just hope the ratings are ďtruly independentĒ.
If there is a subjective element in a standarized test then please understand any advantage provided would be to all its participants.

GNCAP crash test protocol is public and available for all see and understand.
  1. http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...ocol-Adult.pdf
  2. http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...ocol-Child.pdf

I did expect the marketing teams and Sales people of KIA/Hyundai to attack the legitimacy of Global NCAP once the crash test results were out but can't believe that there are TEAM-Bhp members doing the same.

If KIA doesn't care for our lives (fair enough - they are a business after all) then why are we concerned about their bottom line.
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:54   #502
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly


Any car is safe till it is tested for it.
GNCAP, EURO NCAP or No NCAP doesn't matter, if you don't drive sensibly you may die or get hurt in a crash. People in India don't give two blinks about their safety(what is other people's safety?).

I saw an accident in which a Car (Speeding) crashed flying from the opposite lane and landed on the top of the other car.

"Who can put a safety measure on the top ?" no Nexon, Seltos or XUV300 is built to withstand that.

So with the growing safety standards we need to grow up in our road manners too.

Happy Motoring all of you.
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Old 13th November 2020, 14:54   #503
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Guys, in 500 posts, whatever had to be said on the topic has been said. Things are getting too hot now - closing thread.

If you have any major developments to share on this test, please report the post with the link and we'll share it here. Thanks!
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:58   #504
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Thanks to BHPian bpapache for sharing this!

Quote:
I wanted to share something that wasn't discussed in the Seltos crash test thread.

This link:
https://www.autocarpro.in/news-natio...-seminar-77707

The article makes a lot of sense. I thought it might be useful to share with fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks.
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Old 15th November 2020, 17:35   #505
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Thanks to Harmanpreet Gill for sharing this!

Quote:
Hi,

Found this video of Sid Patnakar discussing the recent crash tests of the Seltos, Grand i10 NIOS and S-Presso with Global NCAP officials.

It touches upon many apprehensions raised in the now closed thread titled 'Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly'.
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Old 16th November 2020, 07:13   #506
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Thanks to BHPian self_driven for sharing this!

Quote:
David Ward responds to Maruti Suzuki's statement.

https://www.carandbike.com/news/maru...sident-2325187
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:51   #507
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Thanks to Arjun Reddy for sharing this article!

GNCAP fears ethics breach

Quote:
Global New Car Assessment Programme (GNCAP),in it's four day ‘Global NCAP World Congress’ in Delhi on Friday expressed fear of 'Ethics breach' in car safety star ratings by some car manufacturers by issuing misleading advertisements with authorized GNCAP ratings .

As per GNCAP ratings Maruti Suzuki's Vitara Brezza and Tata Nexon got Four star rating for adult protection but The Renault's Lodgy which was crash tested without airbags got zero-star rating in adult protection crash test but surprisingly Two stars rating in Child Protection.

David Ward, Secretary General, Global NCAP feels that as per ethics the advertising of star rating should be done accurately so that it represents the true status of vehicles on sale in the region and country.

"With India adopting new safety regulations we hope to see an improvement in the quality of cars produced and sold in India. David Ward says, "All we want is equality in the quality of cars sold in all markets. The cars should be safe for everyone and not just one or two markets and that's all we ask for from the manufacturer," said Ward.
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