[RavSam]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The AMT is something that people can live with in the cities. But the steering can be dangerous and I have asked many people who were very interested in booking the Ignis, to firmly stay away from it, only on account of the poorly calibrated steering.

Agreed but like I said they have fixed it (or at-least that is what I feel since it does return back) in the facelift.

Also, one must not stay away (or advise someone to) from a car unless they test-drive and check it for themselves, unless the entire car itself or its service is bad.

Some issues do get fixed in the facelifts. This is like staying away from Hyundai Verna even today since when it had the "boat like" steering - which many actual users never felt the same OR staying away from Suzuki Swift because the last gen non-ABS one braked crappily.

[Reinhard]

To be honest - I feel it might not be a "defect" as such. Some times in the Alto in fact I have found this to be a useful thing (just like regular cars having a high understeer by design).

My Nexon has a very good & active steering return function. Its very very good & addictive also. But when I think of twisty mountain roads with hairpins + a new driver - I feel it might not be the best thing. Active steerings start returning quite aggressively and even slightly loose grip on the wheel midway through a turn can let the wheel turn back. So if the driver is not seasoned & aware of this behaviour - it might be very unnerving also.

Perhaps for the average driver, MSIL thinks that the passive steering is a safer bet in our conditions? Just my 2 cents. I'm just speculating. I don't know much about whether it really is an issue or not at all. I have experienced this since my AltoK10 has this behaviour where the steering just doesn't return at all without driver input. I don't find it much of a problem as such.

[arungoks]

I have never faced this issue in my first generation Celerio AMT. I have to take tight turns inside my apartment parking lot and it always returns back to center. I have particularly noted this as I have read in TBHP that S-Presso steering doesn't. Inside the parking lot, I have seen it returning back to center at very slow speeds (creep function in AMT).

So is this a new "feature" in newer cars, what about second generation Celerio?

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by RavSam

Agreed but like I said they have fixed it (or at-least that is what I feel since it does return back) in the facelift.

Also, one must not stay away (or advise someone to) from a car unless they test-drive and check it for themselves, unless the entire car itself or its service is bad.

The question is not about whether a car is bad or not. It is difficult for any company to make a bad car in 2021. The point that I was trying to highlight is whether the steering can be dangerous or not. And we are on the same page on this point.

My issue with the Ignis is that everytime I drive it after driving my Jazz or my Dad's Figo, I just cannot come to terms with it's steering feel unless I drive it slowly. As GTO mentioned, one shouldnt have to relearn anything when you drive another car. Getting a steering to work properly is not rocket science.

Also, since you brought it up, Nexa's service is not that premium or great here in Cochin. It is at par with the services provided by other companies. Ive posted my experiences with Nexa on the Ignis thread. They did not even have the facilities to remove a nail and fix a puncture in our car when it went for service. It was only after I wrote to Maruti that the dealership invested in the necessary equipment to be able to handle basic punctures.

Originally Posted by RavSam

Some issues do get fixed in the facelifts. This is like staying away from Hyundai Verna even today since when it had the "boat like" steering - which many actual users never felt the same OR staying away from Suzuki Swift because the last gen non-ABS one braked crappily.

Maybe. Maybe not. As we can see from this thread, we have owner feedback that points at the reverse. saisree mentions that his 2009 Wagon R didnt have these issues. But techn0l0gist and abhi9044 say that their 2016 and 2015 Wagon Rs do have this issue. So that is a case of a Maruti face lift making a proven car worse. If other members who own the face lifted Ignis can chip in with their feedback, we can learn more.

Mods - if we can ask Ashis Mishra to confirm whether his Ignis is the newer facelifted one, that could help this thread.

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by YD14

That's not fair! This is the worst looking petrol pump in Pauri. There are better ones in the town.

But yes, we have nothing other then Maruti. No manufacturer other than Maruti has any presence here and even the authorized service center of Maruti is good for nothing other than parts sourcing. Those who own other brands either make the 300 km round trip to Dehradun for every service or go with the independent shops and see their car's condition deteriorate.

Good to see another member from around here. I did not intend to say that things here are bad/worst. Rather I had posted this pic as a representation of how things are done in difficult terrains (I have previously seen such small, roadside pumps only in some western videos etc.).

Having lived in bigger cities of Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan, I find the experiences here very unique and different (most of them in a good way).

Was just pointing out the fact that life outside metros and tier 1 cities are not easy "for non Maruti car owners" where the infrastructure (including a good mechanic/garage/fuel pump) available is limited.

Sorry for going off topic.

[maheshm619]

Originally Posted by RavSam

The current Ignis (The one with Jeep Compass like grille) does self center.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

But the steering can be dangerous and I have asked many people who were very interested in booking the Ignis, to firmly stay away from it, only on account of the poorly calibrated steering.

I had driven the face-lifted Ignis extensively around Munnar on hilly/curvy roads.The issue seems resolved and steering doesn't disappoint.

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

To be honest - I feel it might not be a "defect" as such. Some times in the Alto in fact I have found this to be a useful thing (just like regular cars having a high understeer by design).

My Nexon has a very good & active steering return function. Its very very good & addictive also. But when I think of twisty mountain roads with hairpins + a new driver - I feel it might not be the best thing. Active steerings start returning quite aggressively and even slightly loose grip on the wheel midway through a turn can let the wheel turn back. So if the driver is not seasoned & aware of this behaviour - it might be very unnerving also.

Perhaps for the average driver, MSIL thinks that the passive steering is a safer bet in our conditions? Just my 2 cents. I'm just speculating. I don't know much about whether it really is an issue or not at all. I have experienced this since my AltoK10 has this behaviour where the steering just doesn't return at all without driver input. I don't find it much of a problem as such.

I know what you mean, but it "is" a problem.
- The steering that returns helps you maintaining a line of the car. Unlike, Maruti where you constantly keep correcting. That's super dangerous. Not in speeds below 40. But anything more than that, it's not good. But - my wife doesn't complain for example. She's a first time driver for last 2 years and never complained. But she agrees that the steering in first gen i10 (in which she learned driving) was super convenient!
- Some steerings have aggressive return action (Duster) and as you said, that's also dangerous.
- As for Maruti, I think it's just poor engineering. Can they get away with it? They already did! But left a very bad taste for many customers. And now Maruti's entire Heartect platform is corrupt.

Worse part? In Maruti, the steering, lock to lock is 4 freakin turns!

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by srini1785

Interesting. Would the castor angle offset torque of the wheels be sufficient to counter a servo?.

It should be. Plus, MS cars (as almost all cars do) have EPS. Consider this, non-power assisted steering also come to center automatically when wheels spin ahead with traction; and it requires quite a bit of effort to hold on to a turned steering at medium speeds.

Does anyone know what is the company recommended castor angle in Maruti cars and is it significantly different from other cars (Like a Ford or Fiat or Tata perhaps)?

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by GTO

Guys, the fact is that drivers should not have to relearn anything when they drive a particular car. Self centering steering wheels are pretty much the standard behavior in all Indian cars. That's why it is dangerous. Because it does not behave as you would expect it to or are habituated to.

I also call it dangerous because of its behavior where it is vague at some speeds and too sensitive at some speeds.

In fact, I will go a step further and state that there is nothing about the steering wheel which I liked after my S-Presso drive.

There will always be companies who will take their customers for granted. And they're ready to be disrupted. Someone should atleast.

I've learned 1 thing in car purchase in last few years.

Your checklist of important car features MUST be verified. Verify everything properly. Not PDI. Verify.

Examples:
- Has a touchscreen? cool so it will have android auto and carplay. Guess what? No android Auto!
- Has over 400L of boot space? Great, but can it load airport luggage. Sorry the shape of boot doesn't allow.
- Automatic parking. Wait, only steering is automatic.
- Has a steering! Wait, it doesn't straighten out itself.
- This looks like a top end variant (has + in variant name) with Automatic. I'll book this. What? No alloy wheels?

As a customer how the hell am I supposed to carry a 500 points verification checklist when the expectation is that things should work the way they should. A steering is as old as the car itself. And Maruti can't get a simple steering right!

[knaveen]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

When Tata was working on bringing the power steering on Nano, initial prototypes lacked self centering. It was simply a cheaper system. But they worked on their PS motor and fixed it. The Nano Twist had a proper ‘normal’ power steering.

Nano twist has a very different behaviour. When you start the car, the self centring will not work, once you cross 40kms/hr the self centering will start working and continue to work until you switch off the car or keep the car standstill (without moving the steering) for 20 mins or more, it starts working again past the 40km/hr speed.

But it works alright. I had one for 4yrs/60k kms.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by srini1785

Interesting. Would the castor angle offset torque of the wheels be sufficient to counter a servo?.

Great observation. The servo or the PW pump is designed to assist the manual effort. Torque induced by it at any point of time will have to be lesser than the counter torque from caster angle offset. Otherwise the steering will veer away to the extreme, every time you turn.

The degree of assist can be varying for different model of cars.

I drive an Ikon 1.6, Honda City ZX (Dolphin shape) and Octavia 1.8 T petrol.
For any set degree of turn of the wheels -

Ikon is perfect. Its steering wheel needs lesser degree of turn. Effort required is balanced.
Octavia steering need a little more effort and more degree of turn.
City does not require any effort and is completely disconnected. You have to look out to confirm whether the car has actually turned or not.

All three self centres on leaving the wheel after the turn. In order of how quickly it returns back: Ikon - Octavia - City.

[Kpzonwheels]

Facelifted Ignis doesn't seem to have this problem. I have driven uncle's Ignis 2020 delta amt extensively in both highway and city. May be they corrected this in the facelifted Ignis.

[ashwinprakas]

Are we overreacting?

Don't get me wrong, a faulty steering is a cause for concern, not cause it's dangerous (there is a safety mechanism present) but because it's inconvenient and you've paid big bucks for the added comfort.

The function of the steering centering is mechanical to my knowledge and depends on the cars castor angle, I know this cause I also own a car with manual steering and it self centers.

The only difference with respect to a car with EPS is that there is a motor assisting steering controlled by the ECU which computes motor output by accounting speed and driver input.

So simply put if the EPS fails the car would behave like a car with Manual Steering and would still self center based on castor angle which is a mechanical function.

This actually brings me back to my schooldays, a friend of mine learning to drive asked me whether I count the number of turns I turn the steering so as to turn it back to the center position.

My answer was simple "Accelerate Harder Man! The steering would self center!"

Cheers,
A.P.

[ash22]

My 2007 Alto has Self centering feature.
My friend bought Ignis base model as a replacement for this Alto and immediate difference was the Self centering steering miss.

[bhansali_hardik]

Well, I have a brezza from the first batch of 2016 and have clocked over 80,000 kms and yes there are a ton of twisties that I have done with this one! I never felt the non-centering issue mentioned here. Also, there is a weird squeak when the steering is moved to the right most extreme (Right U-turns) but then this squeak towards the end never got rectified nor did pose any issue. During the services it was lubed and what not but it would always come back after a few kms.

I have always enjoyed my Brezza through the terrains and there are many cases when there was a bit of understeer in the curves but then I guess that was expected behavior with the FWD cars and Apollos that they came with!