[niranjanrvce]

Vb-san, looking at your requirements, back seat comfort looks to be top priority and I can't think of a better car than the City in this range. Acres of space the back - push the copassenger seat all the way front and a 6 footer can stretch his legs all he wants. The back seat is ergonomically well contoured and can seat 3 in comfort. The soft suspension amounts to a very pliant ride in city (or congested) roads where you say you will spend 70% of your time. And it's no slow couch on the open road either.

We own both the Fiesta (now classic) and City petrols- the City can't match the Fiesta's FTD factor one bit and we do fight over who gets to drive the Ford. But, when it is about sitting in the back, City is the king.

Having said all this, your 1.8Tsi interest tells me you want to have fun for 2 months a year, 10 month back seat be damned! In that case, the only 'proper' upgrade to your 1.6 nxt would be the 1.8 TSi. Nothing else that you list.

Happy hunting!

[vb-saan]

Got some more responses from the dealerships today:

• No year end offers on Honda City and Rapid TDI Elegance
• 1 lakh discount on Laura 1.8 TSI.
• City V-MT SR and Rapid TDI elegance have almost similar pricing - close to 10.5 Lakhs OTR
• Rs.88K difference between City V-MT and V-MT SR variants
• Fiat has not given the OTR yet, but they mentioned that they'll give free insurance + 75K discount + additional dealer offers on the T-Jet.
• No response from Ford and VW yet.

At the moment, the top contenders are City V-MT / V-MT SR and Rapid Elegance TDI, followed by the T-Jet.

Those who have evaluated City and the other cars mentioned – does the Japanese feel safe and solid in comparison with the Euro competition like the VW, Skoda or a Fiat?

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Those who have evaluated City and the other cars mentioned – does the Japanese feel safe and solid in comparison with the Euro competition like the VW, Skoda or a Fiat?

Having driven the Corsa and City, I'll answer that for you.

NO! The Corsa (European build) just feels amazingly solid; inside the cabin, you feel protected. The car is very stable at 100 km/hr; I don't take it beyond hence I can't comment but here's what I'll tell you : It's firmly planted on the road.

The City doesn't infuse much confidence on account of 2 aspects : the metal sheet ain't thick enough as the one on European cars and the tyres aren't thick enough.

You can upgrade the tyres but you can't do anything about the delicate metal!

Funny thing : my mum actually preferred the Corsa over the City for our trip to Valley of flowers.

But here's something against the Europeans; check up the spares prices. I just spent 12k on the clutch assembly and 9k on the gear-cable for my Corsa.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Having driven the Corsa and City, I'll answer that for you.

NO! The Corsa (European build) just feels amazingly solid; inside the cabin, you feel protected. The car is very stable at 100 km/hr; I don't take it beyond hence I can't comment but here's what I'll tell you : It's firmly planted on the road.

The City doesn't infuse much confidence on account of 2 aspects : the metal sheet ain't thick enough as the one on European cars and the tyres aren't thick enough.

You can upgrade the tyres but you can't do anything about the delicate metal!

Thanks Nishad for the detailed feedback. This was one doubt I always had, but couldn’t really compare and comment myself. That said, I have noticed that quite a few publications here in SG have rated Honda’s safety superior to the other east asian competitors.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Funny thing : my mum actually preferred the Corsa over the City for our trip to Valley of flowers.

Well, moms do know a bit about cars I guess – my mom always say that she always feel safe in our Ikon, compared to my brother-in-law’s Accent/Swift

[amrisharm]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Thanks Nishad for the detailed feedback. This was one doubt I always had, but couldn’t really compare and comment myself. That said, I have noticed that quite a few publications here in SG have rated Honda’s safety superior to the other east asian competitors.


Well, moms do know a bit about cars I guess – my mom always say that she always feel safe in our Ikon, compared to my brother-in-law’s Accent/Swift

I did not get the test figures for the city directly, but looking at honda products in Europe, the new jazz and civic gets 5 out of 5 stars for road safety. This is via the World famous European NCAP road safety test. So i think it would be fair to say that in general Honda products are safe including the Asian City.

Honda Jazz | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

Honda Civic | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

I know the models tested are Europe specific, but I am just giving the above like as a base comparison.

IMHO i think it would NOT be accurate to judge safety of a car by looking at how thick the sheet metal of the car is or how heavy the car is and so fourth. Both models mentioned by you (corsa and ikon) are atleast a generation old if not older, so i guess though they may feel safe, the reality could be different.

Looking at the Old generation European Corsa, in europe it got a rating of 3 stars out of 5 for passenger safety:

Opel/Vauxhall Corsa | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

Today in 2011 even a european spec Maruti A-Star has the same rating of 3 stars

Suzuki Alto | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

For the record, the Old swift has 4 stars, and the Accent has 3 Stars in the NCAP tests. I could not get ratings for the IKON but the european version of Ford escorts that were sold in india were only given 2 stars back in 1998 by NCAP.

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/ford_escort_1999/33.aspx

So chose your new car wisely

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by amrisharm

I did not get the test figures for the city directly, but looking at Honda products in Europe, the new jazz and civic gets 5 out of 5 stars for road safety. This is via the World famous European NCAP road safety test. So I think it would be fair to say that in general Honda products are safe including the Asian City.

Thanks Amrisharm for the details. Very helpful research indeed. My intention is not to conclude that Honda cars lack in safety, compared to the competition.

Problem is, most of the small cars in India cannot be gauged by the Euro-NCAP or other international safety parameters. The versions they test have much more safety features than what we have. AFIAK, we get similar standards only from luxury C+ segment onwards (e.g.; Jetta, Fluence etc.)

I checked the ANCAP ratings of the City as well. And the rating is quite positive. Just that the AU versions have 6 airbags (which I guess is now mandatory for a 5-star ANCAP rating).

Originally Posted by amrisharm

IMHO I think it would NOT be accurate to judge safety of a car by looking at how thick the sheet metal of the car is or how heavy the car is and so forth. Both models mentioned by you (corsa and ikon) are atleast a generation old if not older, so I guess though they may feel safe, the reality could be different.

I will not discount the importance of the sheet metal and structural rigidness of an automobile. Our Ikon got hit by a bus once (in 2004), and the way it absorbed the side impact was quite impressive. Personally, I will trust a European Vento Highline’s or a Fiat T-Jet’s safety more than some of the Japanese/Korean counterparts (even if it has more airbags).

I have used my friend’s Jazz (1st generation) quite extensively here, and is quite impressed with the overall solid feel. And that’s one more reason to include the City in my list. But my first hand experience with the City is quite limited, and hence posted the question

-----------

Between Rapid Elegance TDI and Vento Highline TDI, I am a bit tilting towards the Rapid. Can anyone suggest with reasons (exclude snob value), which you feel is a better option out of the two? The VW dealer confirmed to me that they have Vento TDI Highline readily available in my preferred choice of colour (Silver). And the Skoda dealer assures that they can do delivery within 7 days of booking.

[Jakku]

Originally Posted by vb-san

[*]Dealership/AS&S: A dealer with good attitude – this is an important parameter, and the Ford guys in my town get a 5-star rating in this aspect. They might have gone wrong a couple of times in past 7 years, but it was really a breeze dealing with them.

Originally Posted by lloydofcochin

vb-san,

My recommendation would be the T-Jet. It ticks all the boxes except the 4th criteria which is dependent on the dealership in the City.

Going from an Ikon 1.6 the T-Jet steering is even better. I can safely say that since I too owned an Ikon 1.6. And FIATs are renowned for their ride quality & high speed stability. FIATs have that tank like build quality and with ABS, Airbags & all round disk brakes the safety aspct is also taken care of. Ah and that bring us to the engine & handling which is probably unmatched in the same class

I would not touch Skoda since I hate companies who goes legal against unsuspecting customers.

If you are looking at an all round car without the fear of A.S.S maybe you should opt for a Honda

Cheers
Lloyd

vn-san,
If I were you, I would have selected a T-Jet+ as that is the one which ticks almost all the criteria laid out for the new buy (barring Laura). I don't have any issue with the product, but a lot with the dealer at Thrissur.

I own a Tata Indica Xeta, and my experience with the current dealer's service division is not that great. But again, what I have heard about the Tata dealers in Bangalore (I live there currently) is that any Tata Service center have separate dedicated service bays, engineers & SAs for Fiat. For me, A.S.S is more important. I request you not to go with my opinion & experience alone, but would urge you to check with any one known to you about their experience with this dealer's service dept. before finalising on T-Jet. However, it is a wonderful product and Linea MJD is going to be my next car (somewhere after mid-2012).

Regarding a Skoda, I would go with Lloyd's opinion. Even if I don't have any first hand experience, the news & "stories" what we come across is not that encouraging. But, lately there seems to be some changes in their approach (according to some opinions posted here and elsewhere).

I love the Honda, knowing Thrissur & Honda City, I fear it's GC will be an issue. Also, when I drove it, I was not that comfortable with it. Might be that I drove it straight after driving a Linea.

[viny2k8]

Hello vb-san
Another choice to consider would be the New Hyundai Fluidic Verna Diesel.
A far more improved vehicle than its predecessor in terms of features and styling, the top end version of this vehicle would fit most of the conditions you would want including, Ownership Experience, A$$, Ride Quality (Hyundai suspensions in India are usually set on the softer side) and that premium feel. The car is one of the most powerful in its segment too!
From my understanding based on Quote:
"This is one big dilemma I am having. One advantage I can see with diesel is that my parents may use the car more. And I was told that even though there is a huge difference in the initial investment, the same difference will show up if you sell the car in, say 3 years.

Are modern diesels high on maintenance compared to Petrol motors, or it is a thing of the past?

Note: My knowledge on diesels is only from online resources, and information from this forum. Never owned a diesel car before, and I am living in a almost petrol only country",

is that you could have spend a good part of your life in the Gulf, where Diesel fuel is not subsidized as compared to petrol for economic reasons. Further, the opinion of Hyundai brand may not be a premium in these countries with considerations of high maintenance, low brand recall and low resale value.

However, save for the slightly pronounced NVH levels modern diesels sold in India are thoroughly reliable, refined and much more complex than their petrol counterparts. It always makes sense, as the trend in India would suggest that while Petrol as a fuel would not be regulated, diesel would have more protection atleast for now.

Moreover, driving on the 70% of the roads mentioned by you, it is preferable to drive a car that would have a healthier torque band, as possible in diesels!
Take care, drive safe & keep us posted with the developments!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Jakku

vn-san,
If I were you, I would have selected a T-Jet+ as that is the one which ticks almost all the criteria laid out for the new buy (barring Laura). I don't have any issue with the product, but a lot with the dealer at Thrissur.

Thanks Jakku! You mean to say that your experience with Hyson was far from satisfactory? I am not really impressed with them from my initial email interactions. But will firm up that opinion only after I make a visit there.

Originally Posted by Jakku

I love the Honda, knowing Thrissur & Honda City, I fear it's GC will be an issue. Also, when I drove it, I was not that comfortable with it. Might be that I drove it straight after driving a Linea.

Can you elaborate – what where the specific discomfort factors? I guess the GC should be satisfactory with the recent update.

Originally Posted by viny2k8

Another choice to consider would be the New Hyundai Fluidic Verna Diesel.
A far more improved vehicle than its predecessor in terms of features and styling, the top end version of this vehicle would fit most of the conditions you would want including, Ownership Experience, A$$, Ride Quality (Hyundai suspensions in India are usually set on the softer side) and that premium feel. The car is one of the most powerful in its segment too!
However, save for the slightly pronounced NVH levels modern diesels sold in India are thoroughly reliable, refined and much more complex than their petrol counterparts. It always makes sense, as the trend in India would suggest that while Petrol as a fuel would not be regulated, diesel would have more protection atleast for now.

Verna maybe an excellent car, but personally the styling is a bit loud to my taste, and the dealership and ASC is one of the most crowded place in my place.

Originally Posted by viny2k8

Is that you could have spend a good part of your life in the Gulf, where Diesel fuel is not subsidized as compared to petrol for economic reasons. Further, the opinion of Hyundai brand may not be a premium in these countries with considerations of high maintenance, low brand recall and low resale value.

I am not sure of middle-east, but the comments were of Singapore. Here diesel cars are normally taxis (private ownership is expensive due to high roadtax). Cheers!

[Jakku]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Thanks Jakku! You mean to say that your experience with Hyson was far from satisfactory? I am not really impressed with them from my initial email interactions. But will firm up that opinion only after I make a visit there.

Yes. My recent experience was about a month back when I went there just to check the sound coming from steering. I don't have any buying experience from them as they are new and I bought my car from RF Motors (who then had a sub-dealership at Thrissur).

Originally Posted by vb-san

Can you elaborate – what where the specific discomfort factors? I guess the GC should be satisfactory with the recent update.

I have not driven the new version which is just launched. I have driven 2011 Jan model which was bought as a second hand by a friend of mine. The factors which I was not comfortable were

• Steering - this was too light and I was not feeling as if connected with road. My experience was driving it in Bangalore city and this could also be a factor to my discomfort.

• The GC was bad - I mean really bad. But again, Bangalore is very notorious for its speed breakers.

• The driving seat comfort - I tried a lot and I was not able to get to a comfortable driving position (I am 5'11"+ with good body (over)weight)

[vb-saan]

Update: Honda dealer is now sending me emails back to back, saying that they will try their best to deliver the car in 15 days (first email said 1 month, and then reduced to 15 days). Meanwhile, the folks from Ford called me here, and asked not to consider any other brand. They say that we can work out a good deal once I am there, and delivery can be arranged without any delay.

I am dropping T-Jet+ from the mix. The dealership is not giving any confidence.
Now the list stands at Rapid/Vento TDI, followed by City V-MT and Fiesta Titanium.

[dkaile]

Go for a Toyota for this upgrade and become a convert for life. Your driving requirement should shortlist it to a Toyota Corolla Petrol. Do give it a thought. For my long term ownership report, kindly refer here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...t-55000km.html

Once you experience the niggle free experience from Toyota, I doubt you will go back to any (lower) brand.

[Sathya_sc]

Originally Posted by amrisharm

1) Fiat Linea T-Jet+ with ABS and Airbags, OTR Delhi 10.14 lakhs(with 20-30,000 discount from dealer)

This is a great car, Not the best acceleration or performance (as compared to the honda City) but more than adequate. you will not be disappointed. For the price, you get a car with space and size comparable to a corolla or civic.

Acceleration and performance of T-Jet not comparable to City!!!! I am stunned to hear this statement. If you are saying this purely based on paper figures (118ps vs 114ps or 0-100 figures) I am not sure whether it is right. I have driven both extensively and I own the T-Jet now and I can confidently say that your statement is incorrect (no offence meant buddy pls.).

The turbo kick in T-Jet gives an awesome feel and having done numerous sprints within the city traffic (from the lights mainly) and numerous long highway drives where I have had some serious fun with the ANHCs.. I can vouch City doesn't come close to T-Jet when it comes to a drag from a traffic light or simply even in a long stretch of highway without traffic. In paper and test drive reports it seems as powerful as the Jet but when it comes to a real highway drive or a drag - I always see the City disappear must faster than expected in my OVRM and if the road includes a corner.. I never see it again at all (had to actually pull over and wait for it to arrive, just to beat in again)!!

I know I will be killed for this paragraph, but cannot refrain from stating what I usually experience. European cars and FORD in the other hand give me a totally different story. I mean they are worthy competitors to the T-Jet when it comes to performance.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I am dropping T-Jet+ from the mix. The dealership is not giving any confidence.
Now the list stands at Rapid/Vento TDI, followed by City V-MT and Fiesta Titanium.

Sad VB San to see you drop the Jet from your list.. I am sure you will make a wise choice end of the day and ALL THE BEST.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Sathya_sc

European cars and FORD in the other hand give me a totally different story. I mean they are worthy competitors to the T-Jet when it comes to performance.

Sad VB San to see you drop the Jet from your list.. I am sure you will make a wise choice end of the day and ALL THE BEST.

Thanks Satya for stepping in. GTO’s review + your ownership thread (and Karthik’s) was one of the main reasons for having the T-Jet in my list. I have not had any firsthand experience with the Linea (experienced the T-Jet as a passenger in the Bravo).

The T-Jet would have occupied the top spot if I am staying at my hometown to drive the car regularly. In the current scenario, a lot depends on the efficiency of the dealer/ASC. Well, I will still pay and visit to the dealership and see how the experience is in person. Plus, the discounts at this moment are huge

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Thanks Satya for stepping in. GTO’s review + your ownership thread (and Karthik’s) was one of the main reasons for having the T-Jet in my list. I have not had any firsthand experience with the Linea (experienced the T-Jet as a passenger in the Bravo).

The T-Jet would have occupied the top spot if I am staying at my hometown to drive the car regularly. In the current scenario, a lot depends on the efficiency of the dealer/ASC. Well, I will still pay and visit to the dealership and see how the experience is in person. Plus, the discounts at this moment are huge

You are right. Discount is huge at the moment. I don't know whether I posted this earlier. I got a quote for Rs. 9 L (SA told me 8.8 may also be possible) OTR in Chennai for the T-Jet+.

Rapid/Vento is also good. But, definitely not a match for the Jet. I don't want to dis-honour the Jet by comparing it with some Japanese/Korean cars .