[Voodooblaster]

Originally Posted by RT13

Quick question, is the 4th gen really still available?? BS6 compliant? Why did I not know this?!

Yes. Got one recently

Originally Posted by reluctantEnthu

Never test drove any of the car yet. All this homework is purely from Internet opinions.

Apart from Nexon, no other compact SUVs apparently have wide backseat for 3 people.

Been there done that

Was in the same situation a few months back and finally decide on 4th gen Honda City.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...mt-review.html (The Grey Stallion | BS6 4th-Gen Honda City SV-MT Review)

Now finally for the golden rule:

Test drive, test drive, test drive

No amount of reading will get you the exact feel.

Since you mention long trips, take your family on the test rides. Their comfort can make or break a trip.

The XUV300 has the widest seat and almost the smallest boot in your budget range.

As other members have pointed out , the Ertiga/XL 6 deserve a test drive since long trips always welcome additional seats (that can be folded for humongous cargo space)

One final suggestion:

If your new purchase is not a sub 4m car, try to keep your getz for local bangalore travel (easier parking and for nimbly zipping through traffic). Just find a good FNG. Heard from many BHPians that Bangalore has many such places which will rejunuvate the Getz without emptying the wallet.

[jacob.thomas]

Dear All,

I have been an avid Team-BHP reader since the past 12-13 years. For some reason I never applied for membership all these years. However, in 2021, I got approved on my first try.

Over an above a couple of one liner replies, this is my first serious post.

I will be in the market for a car in the next 8-12 months. I am posting this early so that I can get enough voices from the lovely Team-BHP community to make an informed choice.

A little background about myself. I am in my early thirties and married. No kids at the moment. Ideally, I was supposed to pickup a car (mostly a hatchback) immediately after my marriage (late 2019) but delayed the purchase due to one reason or the other. In hindsight this decision was a blessing in disguise as I would have taken a huge hit on depreciation for an asset that I would have hardly used (thanks to the pandemic). Additionally, my wife and I were able to divert the funds to make the down payment for a second home that fell within our budget.

At present I am using a Petrol Automatic Ciaz (belonging to my in-laws) as they are mostly not in town, even when they are their use is minimal. Eventually, I will have to return the vehicle to them for their personal use.
When I started my car hunt in 2019, I was planning to go in for a Suzuki Swift Zxi AMT. Slowly as the months rolled on, I began to slowly stretch my budget to accommodate my evolving needs. I was eagerly looking forward to the i20. Even though it is pricey I was willing to stretch it for the Petrol DCT Asta (O).
My i20 dreams came crashing down a few days back when I saw back to back threads on the Hyundai Creta DCT Issues. The final death knell was GTOs comment “there is no such thing as a trouble-free dual-clutch AT and my recommendation for the Hyundai-Kia cars will be the Diesel AT only”

So here I am again, re-assessing my needs and budget. My revised budget is INR 13-17 Lakhs. I know it is a big jump for someone contemplating the Swift just 18 months ago! But do read till the end and let me know if I make sense.

In case it was not obvious from the above writeup till now, this will be my first self owned car.

Below are my requirements.

Must Haves:
Safety Rating (4 Stars or more): I am willing to trade for lower rating (at least 3 Star) if the car has ESC, traction control and at least 6 airbags (I know it is not an apples-to-apples comparison, but still). The car will carry babies, kids and elders at some point, so knowing that the manufacturer has not played with the life of your family for a quick buck will be reassuring.
• At least 4 airbags
• Hassle free ownership: I want to keep the car for a minimum of 10 years. 12, if the Automotive Gods are on my side. So, something that is cheap to maintain and won’t give up on me.
• ISOFIX Child seat mounts. I hate the fact that Hyundai has this only for the top variant of the i20. It is a relatively inexpensive but essential feature.
• Petrol Automatic: TC or CVT. No DSG or DCT. I do not have the mental fortitude nor the deep pockets to handle a gearbox replacement after the factory warranty is over. My predicted usage will be 8000 KM (5000 KM in the city and 3000KM on trips >250 KMs) per year. This is pure speculation as I don’t own a car yet and don’t have a usage history per se. Plus, in the projected 10-12 years of ownership the above estimate can go haywire. Suggestions on diesel automatics are also welcome if you feed my usage warrants a diesel.
• Reasonable space and good comfort in the front and rear seats: Right now, there are only two of us. But anything can happen in the future: Kids, parent staying with us etc.
• Good air conditioning
• Reasonably powerful engine: My driving style is best described as sedate. I rarely cross 60kmph in the city and 110kmph on the highways. Even within those speeds I like the smooth and steady style of driving as opposed to fast and jerky. 95% of the time I am lazing around between 1200- 2500 rpm. Still, I don’t want something like the anaemic, underpowered 1.2 L NA petrol engine on the i20, i10 Nios etc.
• Looks are important. I don’t want an ugly duckling.
• Should be a reasonably successful model in the Indian market. I don’t want to be stuck with a market dud.
• Excellent Fuel Economy: The obvious reason being running costs. Also, I like to challenge myself to get the best possible economy from the car I’m driving. Some people like bursts of power and pedal to the metal kind of driving. For some weird reason fuel economy is my poison.


Nice to have:
• I must confess I have to jump on panoramic sunroof bandwagon here. It is the only “fancy” feature that I would like to have. Again, not a deal breaker.
• A nice music system: I’m no audiophile, nor do I crank the speakers to full volume, but a nice neutral sounding system that does not leave me wanting would be nice.
• A large boot will be a definite plus.


Undecided
• Forced Induction or Naturally Aspirated: I have not driven a turbo petrol yet. But again, not sure if the engine will last me 12 years plus of ownership without a turbo replacement.
• iMT: It takes away the pain point of driving a manual while retaining the fun of it.


Options eliminated (This is my personal opinion, no offence to any owners here)
• All Marutis: I just don’t like the overall feel of the brand. Maybe I’ve had one too many Maruti’s in my life up until now. Don’t want to live with one more for the next 10 years.
• All Nissans, Fords, Skodas, VWs. All these manufacturers have 1-2 percent market share. I hear too many Skoda service horror stories. Prefer to stay away. Same with VW, expensive spares keep me away. I’m not the one who willing to spend hours haggling with service executives or writing long emails to customer care reps arguing on service estimates, failures etc.
• Mahindra XUV300: I find the car to be ungainly. I know the engine is brilliant, but risky after sales service and a non-existent boot space made it quite easy to put it out of contention. Also Mahindra does not inspire confidence.
• Hyundai Venue/ Kia Sonet: While I don’t mind a Compact SUV, the DCT uncertainties kind of want me to stay away. Additionally, shaky crash test ratings are not exactly confidence inspiring.
• Hyundai Creta/ Kia Seltos: Too pricey for a reasonably equipped version. Long waiting periods. Additionally, to put it delicately, I am yet to come to terms with the Creta’s mug or behind.


Options under consideration
• Hyundai i20 DCT Asta (O): This was my first choice up until I started reading about multiple Hyundai DCT failures on Team-BHP. I can’t live with the uncertainty surrounding the DCT. iMT is not offered on the top variant (lose out on 4 airbags, ESC, ISOFIX etc.). Had they offered the iMT in the top variant it would have been a strong contender.
• Tata Nexon: All respect to Tata for rediscovering themselves in the past 5 odd years. I'm not a big fan of how it looks. It is a solid car, but Tata service is something I’m not willing to tango with. Still its good enough to not outright reject.
• Fourth Generation Honda City: A solid car and a terrific value proposition. The only reason I’m second guessing here is because it co-exists with its newer brother.
• 2020 Fifth Generation Honda City Petrol CVT ZX: The main reason for this post. Over the last few months, I’ve been appreciating this car more and more. The skinny tyres (can be easily upgraded) and the uninspiring central screen are the only negatives. I can live with both. This car is the main reason I bumped up my budget from INR 13 Lakhs to INR 17 Lakhs. It is a comfortable, fun, no nonsense car with sorted fundamentals.


A few more things that might help the Team-BHP brethren to advise me better:
• My wife will drive this car too. I’m guessing a NA (non DCT) powertrain is more conducive to multiple drivers and multiple driving styles (Don’t need to worry to much about turbo idling, DCT being in D in standing traffic etc.)
• GTO’s brilliant post (https://www.team-bhp.com/advice/how-...rk-out-cheaper) on “How a more expensive car can be cheaper” has been ringing in my head since the last few days. I have already delayed my initial purchase decision by two years. If I buy a i20 Turbo DCT and it lasts me 7 years v/s a City lasting me 12 years, surely the initial premium paid will pay off?
• Looking at the way things are going, its not too much of a stretch to assume that my second car after a few years will be an EV. So, I want my first and last fossil fuel car to give me a simple, fuss free ownership experience.
• I prefer the top and latest version of the car. Since I want to keep my car for long, I don’t want any buyer’s remorse later for not spending that extra 80 K to 1 lakh on the highest variant.
• Last but not the least, by splurging today, I am future proofing myself for the next decade. Our family may outgrow a hatchback, but a full-sized sedan should keep us happy for years. And the only car that I see having this kind of life while still being roomy, relevant is the Honda City.


Where I am looking for inputs:
• Reassurance that I’m on the right track. Team-BHP opinion matters a lot!
• Please suggest any options that fit my above criteria that I may have missed
• Honda’s future plans in India. A 3-4 percent market share is not the most comforting statistic you want to hear about the second biggest investment a typical middle-class Indian makes in his life. Even if they, God forbid, exit India, I am assuming that spares and service should be available in plenty due to large number of cars on the road and due to the City’s popularity in south east Asia. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
• Is it the right decision going for a 17 Lakh (On road Pune) full sized sedan as one’s first car? I hope for 12+ years and 1.5 Lakh Kms (whichever comes later) of niggle free ownership.
• Is there any facelift of the fifth generation City coming out that I should wait for? I can delay my purchase by a further 3-6 months if that is the case.
• Any new launches coming out in the next 12 months that are worth checking out.


I know this post became more of Honda hero worship and a Hyundai bashing but trust me, I had my checkbook out for the i20 DCT Asta (O) before the DCT issues put me off. Also, GTO’s post buying a more expensive car swayed me further.
Mods please add a poll if you feel it’ll add the quality of the thread.

[2000rpm]

You are the bulls-eye target segment for the Honda City! The car is so versatile, that its difficult to beat in this segment.

I would have also looked at a Creta! But the safety worries for Hyundai stay in my mind! Thats the only car which would check all the boxes, including the panoramic sunroof!

[AZT]

Skoda Kushaq is launching soon. Safety rating is not known but introductory pricing may make this a tempting offer. I'd say check this out as well.

Since you mentioned no Marutis you can go for the Toyota branded Urban Cruiser. The Brezza is a good car and you get to own a Toyota.

[IshaanIan]

First of all please don't expect good fuel economy from a petrol automatic. Efficiency of internal combustion engines has remained largely unchanged over the years with variable valve timing being the last major advancement in performance and efficiency. ARAI figures that have been steadily creeping up over the years are only achieved by reducing weight/downsizing engines and adding turbos etc. Real world mileage will not be that impressive since an automatic removes the ability of you reducing engine loads with a combination of throttle input and correct gear usage. Since the gearbox decides which gear to be in, your throttle input will serve only to adjust the acceleration desired.

That said, the car I would recommend would be the Hyundai Verna 1.6 petrol automatic. The torque converter is very slick in this car and the feature-set (ventilated seats) are a boon. The fact that is developed on the Elantra's platform also adds a certain maturity to its ride quality and handling characteristics that other Hyundai's like the Creta, cannot match.

The Honda City ought to tick all your boxes as well.

[TrackDay]

From your post it is very clear what car you are looking at. Exactly one year back I was in your shoes, looking for a new car and with a certain set of requirements and went in for the 5th generation V (CVT) City. You can read more about it here (Athena | My 5th-Gen Honda City Review). Like you, I too didn't want to do anything with an AMT, IMT, DCT/DSGs etc. and wanted a proper four cylinder engine car with a proven combination gearbox.

The reason I didn't go with certain cars were that their offerings were more expensive if I opted to go for their TC gearboxes with essential safety features and conveniences. Here your budget is a bit more higher at 17 lakhs & if it is okay do check out the Torque Convertor Options from Hyundai/Kia/VW and even Maruti. The reason I went with the city is because the car is mechanically a proven one, with a gem of an engine and gearbox which returns good efficiency. I intend on retaining the car for at least 10 years. Yes, the touchscreen could have been better and that is something that can always be replaced without much hassle.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by jacob.thomas

• Honda’s future plans in India.

• 12+ years and 1.5 Lakh Kms (whichever comes later) of niggle free ownership.

• Is there any facelift of the fifth generation City coming out that I should wait for? I can delay my purchase by a further 3-6 months if that is the case.

• Any new launches coming out in the next 12 months that are worth checking out.

- I want my first and last fossil fuel car to give me a simple, fuss free ownership experience.

Your requirements are pretty clear and your views on the car to suit your usage are spot on.
My take on your questions :

- I share your concerns about Honda's future but even if they stop the city tomorrow it can easily run for 10 more years. I have never owned a Honda but have driven a friend's who is all set to renew the registration of his 15 year old city, no surprise costs till date and that's my favourite part of a Honda after the brilliant 1.5 NA.

- Your intended usage will suit the City well.

- I don't think any new facelift is coming for at least a year.

- All new launches I have heard of are in your excluded list.

- Lastly if its the first and last fossil fuel car you're going to own, you should experience the brilliant 1.5 iVTEC.

5th Gen City owners can help you with real world ownership but IMO you're on the right track unless your requirements change or you need something smaller.

Good Luck

[Nav-i-gator]

I am a sedate driver, but what if someday I really want to push the car for fun? - Check.

Safety: Airbags, ABS, BA, ESC, Traction control, HLA - Check

We are a small family but would need good interior space in near future - check

Fuss free ownership experience - check

Large boot space - check

Gizmos: Sunroof et al - Check

Honda City, as another member aptly posted, is targeted to such people like us!

I am driving the 5th Gen City CVT. I upgraded from a hatchback, and it is quite a substantial upgrade for me.

What do I miss? Wireless Android Auto and cooled front seats, that's it. Fuel efficiency is not a big concern for me as my daily driving is not too much & I don't mind FE while going for long distance vacations. It gives a good 11-12 KMPL in city (as per MID, which, for a car being driven only 1000 KM, is a pretty good figure). It gives >18 KMPL on highway runs as well, so I have no complaints.

We are a small family too and so far have not scraped the underbelly anywhere, but I would always be more mindful of that while going over big speed breakers or pot holes. More so, if the car is fully loaded. But a Pseudo-SUV only for such "once in a while" use cases is too much of a compromise for me.

[Sahilrai166]

Going by your requirements the New Honda City ZX CVT is the car for you it’s fuel efficient on the highway, is reliable going by the past records, has a great engine coupled with a CVT gearbox and has space in abundance and comes will good safety features too and all this at a price point of ~18lac on road. If you want something with a higher ground clearance then sadly there are very less good petrol automatic cars in the market and seltos cvt is not available with 6 airbags and Creta cvt with 6 airbags costs upwards of 20lacs on road. Do take a look on the Kushaq/Taigun as well the 1.0 with the Torque converter should be launched under 18lacs.

[Turbohead]

All you wanted was a validation for the car you had in mind. The Honda City is a no brainer.

I believe there are still some niggles here and there but it's THE car for wafting around. Make sure you test drive one for 20-30 kms in various conditions before you sign your cheque- ensure you are comfortable with the body roll induced by the soft suspension.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by jacob.thomas

• 2020 Fifth Generation Honda City Petrol CVT ZX: The main reason for this post. Over the last few months, I’ve been appreciating this car more and more. The skinny tyres (can be easily upgraded) and the uninspiring central screen are the only negatives. I can live with both. This car is the main reason I bumped up my budget from INR 13 Lakhs to INR 17 Lakhs. It is a comfortable, fun, no nonsense car with sorted fundamentals.

City fits your bill perfectly. Nothing comes close to your requirements. Even I would be in the lookout for a second car in next 1-1.5 years, and of the current options I feel the City CVT ZX would perfectly compliment our Ecosport S TDCI.

Originally Posted by jacob.thomas

• Tata Nexon: All respect to Tata for rediscovering themselves in the past 5 odd years. I'm not a big fan of how it looks. It is a solid car, but Tata service is something I’m not willing to tango with. Still its good enough to not outright reject.

If you are considering a C-SUV, I will advice you to go for the Ecosport only. IMO none other C-SUV fits most of your requirements. Ford too has a question mark over their future, but considering the recent developments, I believe they are here to stay. However, would I recommend this over the city, considering your requirements? Definitely No.


Only Other alternative that fit/may fit your requirements-
MG ZS Petrol

[vikred]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

That said, the car I would recommend would be the Hyundai Verna 1.6 petrol automatic. The torque converter is very slick in this car and ...

Does Hyundai still sell the Verna with a 1.6 petrol engine? And that too with a torque converter auto? I believe the manufacturer migrated to the 1.5 liter engines in 2020. And the 1.5 can only be optioned with a CVT auto now.

[TrackDay]

Originally Posted by vikred

Does Hyundai still sell the Verna with a 1.6 petrol engine? And that too with a torque converter auto? I believe the manufacturer migrated to the 1.5 liter engines in 2020. And the 1.5 can only be optioned with a CVT auto now.

You are right. The petrol option comes with the 1.5 l MPI as well as 1.0 l Kappa Turbo GDi while the diesel is the 1.5 l U2 CRDi. But Hyundai being Hyundai comes with 4 gearboxes ! Obviously one is the manual 6 speed found in their 1.5 l diesel and petrol engine. The other three are auto options which are :

1. 1.5 l U2 CRDi Diesel with 6-Speed Automatic TC
2. 1.5 l MPI Petrol with the IVT (Infinitely Variable transmissions), a subset of CVT.
3. 1.0 l Kappa Turbo GDi Petrol with DCT (7 Speed)

[TheWall]

I was in the same boat as others here, Creta vs Seltos vs Sub4M SUVs vs City, but the amount of value City provides is amazing when compared to the rest.
Ground clearance could be the only problem but after multiple test drives I am confident that it can be managed if not avoided.
At 13L OTR for 5th gen City V MT, or 15L OTR for V CVT it is amazing value for money. Nothing beats it at this price. Creta and Seltos IVT feel terribly overpriced in comparison.
The space, the features, the safety and the "City" brand are best in the segment.

[jacob.thomas]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

First of all please don't expect good fuel economy from a petrol automatic. Efficiency of internal combustion engines has remained largely unchanged over the years with variable valve timing being the last major advancement in performance and efficiency. ARAI figures that have been steadily creeping up over the years are only achieved by reducing weight/downsizing engines and adding turbos etc. Real world mileage will not be that impressive since an automatic removes the ability of you reducing engine loads with a combination of throttle input and correct gear usage. Since the gearbox decides which gear to be in, your throttle input will serve only to adjust the acceleration desired.

The Honda City ought to tick all your boxes as well.

Thanks @IshaanIan for the inputs. From whatever online content I could gather about real world mileage it seemed that the City is quite competent with in city mileage around 12-14 kmpl and highway mileage of close to 20kmpl.