[althaaf]

Hi everybody,
We urgently need a diesel sedan for a slightly long term use. We have an offer for a used cruze 16k on oddo but 2009 model at 10.75. Right now we are totally confused if we should go for a used cruze or fresh verna diesel. What do you guys suggest? i found space problem for both the vehicles. what to do? Please help immediately.
Thank you all.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by althaaf

Hi everybody,
We urgently need a diesel sedan for a slightly long term use. We have an offer for a used cruze 16k on oddo but 2009 model at 10.75. Right now we are totally confused if we should go for a used cruze or fresh verna diesel. What do you guys suggest? i found space problem for both the vehicles. what to do? Please help immediately.
Thank you all.

Expect that you would have done your checks about odometer tampering and the Cruze being accident free. 16k in two years for a diesel car seems a bit less. Does the tyre wear match the 16k?

IMO, BOTH the Cruze and Verna have issues with the cabin. Had recently test driven the Verna. In case you missed the reports, they are
here
and a more detailed one here

As many on this thread may feel, do seriously consider the Optra Diesel- a car with many many pluses and sheer VFM at the going prices and discounts. Though not modern looking, it would give you a much much better cabin which you would probably appreciate every day. In case you have not test driven it, please do so. You may be pleasantly surprised, as long as you go without expecting a very modern looking dash. It is high quality though. Spend some time on this thread and you will come across some Magnum fans and converts.

But coming back to the comparison between the Cruze and Verna:

Cruze - Immense surge of power, which can be totally addictive; modern aggressive looks; modern cabin design though with moderate quality; The turbolag which will take getting used to and may cause inconvenience if driven in bumper to bumper traffic regularly. Slightly oddly tilted seats. Immense driving pleasure on the highway. Far better handler than the Verna.

Verna - Wow looking from the rear; very easy to drive - almost petrol like; Good if you mainly use the front seats and don't drive at high speeds. NO Steering feedback and very iffy handling and ride at higher speeds. Driving pleasure comes from the ease of driving and petrol like feeling than anything else. Rear bench very claustrophobic.

If you want ease of driving in the city - Verna
If you want a huge fun to drive car on the highway - Cruze
If you want cabin comfort with fairly easy city driving and fun on the highway - Optra

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Verna - Wow looking from the rear; very easy to drive - almost petrol like; Good if you mainly use the front seats and don't drive at high speeds. NO Steering feedback and very iffy handling and ride at higher speeds. Driving pleasure comes from the ease of driving and petrol like feeling than anything else. Rear bench very claustrophobic.

If you want ease of driving in the city - Verna

Took a test drive of Verna diesel 1.6L today. Loved the cabin. The driver's seat was highly comfortable and the car looks like an 11L car from inside. Loaded with gizmos. Very plush and up-market feeling vehicle.

The things went downhill from there. I specifically wanted to test the turbo lag and it was exactly as described in the reviews. I crossed about 7-8 speed-breakers in second gear and the torque was non-existent. I literally floored the pedal but no response till the car reached 20km/h or so. It was quite good after that though.

Wouldn't it be great if someone could plonk Vento's engine in Verna and sell it for 11L

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by bansal98

Wouldn't it be great if someone could plonk Vento's engine in Verna and sell it for 11L

Don't we all want that elusive perfect car at our price point! I sure do.

I too didn't like the Verna much. Seemed to have the surface frills without a 'strong core set of values'. However it may satisfy what a lot of people value. The bookings are screaming of that.

About the turbo-lag issue , Bansal, from what I have been able to gather, given the type of humps you have in Bangalore, one may have to deal with a lot of them in the first gear. Most cars will have taller gears than what you are used to. Add to that now you are trying out diesels with turbo. It may be a good idea to try out both in your subsequent test drives - on the first and on the second. One would expect to use gears at a higher speed in such cars.

Strongly feel you are veering towards the Vento, which may be the right choice for you. What do you have against the Vento?

----------
In other news:
We have a new Optra owner on the forum, for those who missed it. He was going to buy a Safari, took the TD of the Cruze and eventually bought the Optra! Love the excitement felt in his ownership thread.
Link here

Our now regular writer Vb-San also started a thread about launches coming up from Skoda which would also be relevant to readers of this thread.
Link here
---------

Note: Guys, I think it would be useful if we could share links relevant to our discussion (whether from within the forum or otherwise) here on this thread.

PS: @Oxyzen and Radiokidb : Wanted to share some more thoughts on in gear acceleration figures, and was waiting for the Civic-Optra dust to settle down. Will be back soon to share my thoughts and get your views on it. Sorry for the delay.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by bansal98

I literally floored the pedal but no response till the car reached 20km/h or so. It was quite good after that though.

Till it reached 20km/h? Wrong gear. Try a tall gearing petrol car, like esteem?

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by Poitive

About the turbo-lag issue , Bansal, from what I have been able to gather, given the type of humps you have in Bangalore, one may have to deal with a lot of them in the first gear. Most cars will have taller gears than what you are used to. Add to that now you are trying out diesels with turbo. It may be a good idea to try out both in your subsequent test drives - on the first and on the second. One would expect to use gears at a higher speed in such cars.

Strongly feel you are veering towards the Vento, which may be the right choice for you. What do you have against the Vento?

Originally Posted by SLK

Till it reached 20km/h? Wrong gear. Try a tall gearing petrol car, like esteem?

I tried first gear too but it was too cumbersome to come to first from third time and again. I also checked with the sales guy (for Optra also) and they both suggested second gear itself. Anyway, I was just curious to see Verna's performance. I have no intention of buying it. But I might try it again and try to tackle all speed-breakers in first gear itself.

Regarding Vento, I have nothing against it. I absolutely love that car. In fact, as soon as I decide to sell Alto and buy a new car, that's what I am going to buy. No second thoughts whatsoever.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by bansal98

And as we know, digicams have several limitations in terms of noise, shutter lag, lens choice etc. So I decided to upgrade to a DSLR and ended up buying a D80.
.....................
Then a funny thing happened. As my skills improved, I wanted to push the camera further but it could only go so far. It had hit its limit. So I ended up selling it and bought a D7000. I have never felt constrained in any way since then.
...............................
But what happens when I become experienced and want to push the car to perform at a higher level. That's what matters to me 'cause it's a decision which cannot be easily reversed. I want my car to grow with me. And these are the things which a TD cannot tell you. A TD might impress you for now but it's not a guarantee of future satisfaction.

Just a thought Bansal-

Could it be that if you got the D7000 right away, after your digicam, you would have found it too cumbersome to handle, and might have preferred a D80, as it was closer to what you were used to?

You may want to consider the possibility that something similar may be happening with your car decision? Only you would be able to judge that mate.

Eventually, feel comfortable with what you decide.

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Just a thought Bansal-

Could it be that if you got the D7000 right away, after your digicam, you would have found it too cumbersome to handle, and might have preferred a D80, as it was closer to what you were used to?

You may want to consider the possibility that something similar may be happening with your car decision? Only you would be able to judge that mate.

Eventually, feel comfortable with what you decide.

It's an interesting thought but I don't think that would have happened had I got the D7000 first. There are lots of settings in a complex camera like D7000 but the good thing is that if I want, I don't have to deal with most of them. I can just ignore them and they don't get in the way either. The important thing is that D7000 is a pleasure to shoot with. It's super-responsive and has that silky-smooth mirror slap which makes it an extension of your mind. It does your bidding without seemingly any effort on your part. Of course, as I grow, I can start experimenting with all those complex settings like AF-L/AE-L etc.

It's this kind of responsiveness and pleasure that I seek from a car. In other words, it should behave as I expect it to, without me fighting with it. It's true that we get used to whatever we have, be it cameras or cars or computers but I want the tools to adapt to my will, not the other way around.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by Poitive

If you want a huge fun to drive car on the highway - Cruze

Although I agree with you on what you said regarding Cruze, I dont think is the most fun to drive car on a Highway. That place is reserved for one and only Laura.
Cruze is no big time handler but I agree it is way better than Verna.
Again with regards to handling Laura is as good as it gets.

What is the point of power without Handling. That too on a Highway.

However neither Cruze nor Laura falls in the 12 L bracket. We can have a separate thread for it.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by bansal98

It's an interesting thought but
.................
It's true that we get used to whatever we have, be it cameras or cars or computers but I want the tools to adapt to my will, not the other way around.

Get your point mate .

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Although I agree with you on what you said regarding Cruze, I dont think is the most fun to drive car on a Highway. That place is reserved for one and only Laura.

Aah yes! Without handling, power is messy. But those lines were in the context of the question asked - Cruze vs Fluidic Verna (Verna? Handling?? ) I just pushed in the Optra (as usual!!!)

Between the three, sitting on the drivers seat, I think I'd go for the Cruze for a highway trip.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by bansal98

I literally floored the pedal but no response till the car reached 20km/h or so. It was quite good after that though.

Till 20! That is not so bad. Woy sure you got that right. Even Vento gets the turbo kick at 25kmph from 2nd gear.
14 kmph- Idle speed. (900 rpm)
25 kmph - The turbo has spooled up (1800 rpm)
But the fun is, it does not take eternity to reach 25 from 15.
Did not check speed with the digital speedo though. So the values are approx.

Originally Posted by bansal98

Wouldn't it be great if someone could plonk Vento's engine in Verna and sell it for 11L

Nah, you left out the handling part. Also the uncomfortable, under thigh support-less, high window lined rear seat.

Originally Posted by Poitive

I just pushed in the Optra (as usual!!!)

Looks like you are completely bent on Optra. I have nothing against the car, except it is a generation old. If you really wanna buy it, may be a pre-owned one will make more sense.

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Till 20! That is not so bad. Woy sure you got that right. Even Vento gets the turbo kick at 25kmph from 2nd gear.
14 kmph- Idle speed. (900 rpm)
25 kmph - The turbo has spooled up (1800 rpm)
But the fun is, it does not take eternity to reach 25 from 15.
Did not check speed with the digital speedo though. So the values are approx.

The turbo may be coming at 25km/h in Vento but it still had enough power at lower rpm to pull the car cleanly. The Verna was totally lifeless at that stage.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Looks like you are completely bent on Optra. I have nothing against the car, except it is a generation old. If you really wanna buy it, may be a pre-owned one will make more sense.

With my little research and reading about other's experiences, not many examples with low milage available. And the resale doesn't seem to be as low for the diesel as people perceive (perception was probably based on the petrol model). Anyway prefer not to go the used route.

Purchase has been delayed :(

What I do love is the space (especially for a large framed person), ergonomics, the engine, besides other things, at this price.

[mdsaab]

Just wanted to drop a few lines of kudos to Daewoo.
They had always delivered desirable cars which in design terms would last.
Look at how long the Cielo ran and was hugely desirable.
Then came along the Matiz, which IMHO still looks great on the road today.
and then the Optra too, which was actually slated to be a Daewoo if the company survived. All in all they had some well designed cars up their sleeve, and in fact the indian operations were doing well, if not for the parent company, the Optra just might have been a Daewoo.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Just wanted to drop a few lines of kudos to Daewoo.

Had never thought of it that way, mdsaab. You are so right!

Cielo was aspirational for the first few years of it's launch. Maybe even after that. For it's exteriors' design, it would still hold out well against most of the current cars. Only that it would be a bit lesser aerodynamic. Just loved how it looked from the front. We had almost got one.

Still love the Matiz for it's space management and simple looking design. And now have grown to like how the Optra looks from the outside. Inside is wonderfully comfortable (I hope those views remain, if and when one gets this car!).

Timeless appeal. Especially the Cielo. Thanks for bringing this up, mdsaab.

PS: With the Cruze, GM seems to have taken the design one step back on some counts - the interiors' comfort.