[girlieonwheels]

Originally Posted by noopster

That's a bit of a stretch. Our country is far from falling apart, in fact I would say we are economically, politically and socially much better off than we were a generation ago. Of course there are problems but there is also a willingness to attack these through public debate and accountability of the administration and elected represnetatives that was severly lacking in the so-called golden days.

Well, you're right.
"It's not falling apart."

And I might be worrying too much.

But its nice to talk and discuss things, makes me see things from a different view. And it does make sense as well.

I am going off topic, but let me say - when I listen to songs of Gulam Ali and others of his era, I feel I am just at the right place.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by girlieonwheels

Well, you're right.
"It's not falling apart."
And I might be worrying too much.

Yep, its the 'sky's falling on my head syndrome'. I have it too and it gets progressively worse with more hits and dents everyday. In fact your usage of smilies (will be noticed by the mods!) reminds me of what friends and family tell me is a major change.

I dont smile any more.

I guess that says a lot about the state of mind that has risen from being forced into a defensive corner all the time. Hopefully I can take that symptom and try to either correct the illness or move myself away from the cause!

[girlieonwheels]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I dont smile any more.

Hmm...I understand that change.

At my end, I am trying not to let the world touch my inner calm. But I do fail as well. But I still keep trying again and again.

And when I drive back home after work and find the left lane clogged because all the people who wanted to go straight have come in the left lane in an attempt to cross the Red Traffic light faster than the others, I laugh at them in my mind and wonder what's the hurry behind their urgency.

I sit in the car and try to imagine the urgency behind the person driving the rikshaw, or the bike, or safari, or honda, or the bus wala. These are all kinds of vehicles, and all kinds of people who want to cross the light as soon as they can, to reach somewhere, but where....where!!!

Well, we should not lose our sense of humour.

And I wonder who is listening to my ipod right now!!!
Or did he gift it to his girlfriend when he found out its just music. Or may be to his mistress.
Hmm...or did sell it, and if he did, for how much...Rs 200, 400, oh please!...it was more than that!

[Samurai]

girlieonwheels/selfdrive,

I am curious, how many years did you live abroad before returning to India? I feel you both did not mentally prepared for the return or the reverse culture shock.

[girlieonwheels]

Originally Posted by Samurai

girlieonwheels/selfdrive,

I am curious, how many years did you live abroad before returning to India? I feel you both did not mentally prepared for the return or the reverse culture shock.

Well, that's not the point actually.
I was prepared for my return and I do know everything about India.

But I used to question certain things before also.
And I am doing the same now.

Don't get picky, we are just talking in a light manner.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Samurai

girlieonwheels/selfdrive,

I am curious, how many years did you live abroad before returning to India? I feel you both did not mentally prepared for the return or the reverse culture shock.

Mentally prepared - big tick
underprepared - perhaps
underestimated - definitely

It is not as if I did not maintain ties while I was away. I had regular visits to India all the time and while I knew what to expect I guess I am overwhelmed with the magnitude of it all. especially at two of the places I spend my time the most. At the workplace and driving on the roads.

As for the thread itself, it is interesting to know and discuss these issue with others who have dealt with this before/ dealing now. Hope to learn a bit from how they deal(t) with these issues other than ignoring them.

[Skyline GT-R]

I lived out of India for around 6 years and came back to find that the number of vehicle users have increased & number of sensible users has come down.

Every day I come across morons (in bikes/autos/buses/cars) who breaks the rule intimidating & irritating me & as a result I end up driving aggressively (either to swear or to show the finger)

The fact that not even a single rupee paid as road tax goes into maintaining the roads doesn't help either.

[Thunderbird77]

Guess a considerable population among our Team-BHP community comprises of software pro.s who either live or lived abroad. Thought of starting a thread to share thoughts about whether it is really worth living abroad considering the present global scenario.

I myself lived in Canada, UK and US and stayed for couple of months in France, China etc. From my experience, I found I am more comfortable in India than abroad eventhough our country lacks the discipline, infrastructure, integrity etc.

Give your reason depending on your current position as mentioned below;

1. I/we live abroad and have no intention of coming back for good:

2. I/we live abroad but will come back to India for good:

3. I/we lived abroad and came back to India for good:

[Thunderbird77]

Originally Posted by girlieonwheels

Hmm...I understand that change.

I have been following you guys' (you and Selfdrive's) posts and they make interesting reading. I fully understand your feelings as I am also on the same boat.
Indian society lacks self-descipline. This is the mother of all reasons for the miserable condition we witness. But ours is a young country. It is just 64 years old. US and Europe have evolved over hundreds of years. We have to go atleast 50 yrs more to reach somewhere near a developed country's status.
The lack of self descipline is a chateracteristic which has been being inherited over generations. Children learn from their parents first and then from others. Most of the parents want their children to be 'smart' and not be a dope. Here 'Smartness' means cutting corners, being cunning, ruthless etc.
But I can see the signs of positive changes. Corrupted people are behind the bars. Anna Hazare's movement is gaining support from various quarters. Hope atleast our children could live in a better India.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by Shubz

90 times out of 100 it is not affordability but squeezing corners to be seen driving a civic and/or other fancy cars. At worst, if they can't pay, cos starbucks fires them, the worst they expect is the car to be taken way. when McDonalds hire, I'd go for a second hand Mustang

may be my definition of "affordability" is misinterpreted.

Originally Posted by Shubz

I disagree with this statement. A person working in starbucks cannot afford a civic. Just that the system is such that anybody with a credit card and a job to show can simply pick a car of his/her choice by paying a very minimal down payment. You must ask them if they can really really afford that civic?

I am sorry to say this, but i disagree with your statement.

The point is, civic is the most affordable car in States. If you mean an acura or bmw, i may agree to an extent. But i have seen people working in restaurants owning a TSX or 3 series. The reason being, its their part time job. Most do two jobs, one full time and a part time or two part time jobs. That way they can easily afford such cars.

An example - We went to chinese restaurant two days back. We were outside after our dinner, restaurant closed and the girl who served us food left in a brand new Acura TSX. We all were left wondering how a girl working in a restaurant can afford a $30000 car.

Another example - Though not related to cars, its about affordability. Every TDH has iphone 4 here. We went to a pizza place, the guy who was cleaning dishes had an iphone 4. Mind you, it costs $250 plus two year contract($75/mo) to get one. Compared to other phones which are mostly free.

Regarding the system, before 2008, it was very easy to get financing for cars just like you said, but now a days, loan approval and financing is not easy as you make it out to be. A job and a credit card still doesn't guarantee financing at lower APRs. The banks now a days have got very strict about approvals. If they do approve, they put in a counter offer which is usually more APR and/or more down payment.

I know this because i am in market for a car and all this is faced by me too. Not every bank is willing to finance at our desired price. If they agree, its mostly a bit higher APR or more DP. These with a good credit history and job in hand. Just imagine what a bankrupt guy or one without job must be facing.

[Shubz]

Originally Posted by chevelle

I am sorry to say this, but i disagree with your statement.

The point is, civic is the most affordable car in States. If you mean an acura or bmw, i may agree to an extent. But i have seen people working in restaurants owning a TSX or 3 series. The reason being, its their part time job. Most do two jobs, one full time and a part time or two part time jobs. That way they can easily afford such cars.

An example - We went to chinese restaurant two days back. We were outside after our dinner, restaurant closed and the girl who served us food left in a brand new Acura TSX. We all were left wondering how a girl working in a restaurant can afford a $30000 car.

Another example - Though not related to cars, its about affordability. Every TDH has iphone 4 here. We went to a pizza place, the guy who was cleaning dishes had an iphone 4. Mind you, it costs $250 plus two year contract($75/mo) to get one. Compared to other phones which are mostly free.

Regarding the system, before 2008, it was very easy to get financing for cars just like you said, but now a days, loan approval and financing is not easy as you make it out to be. A job and a credit card still doesn't guarantee financing at lower APRs. The banks now a days have got very strict about approvals. If they do approve, they put in a counter offer which is usually more APR and/or more down payment.

I know this because i am in market for a car and all this is faced by me too. Not every bank is willing to finance at our desired price. If they agree, its mostly a bit higher APR or more DP. These with a good credit history and job in hand. Just imagine what a bankrupt guy or one without job must be facing.

Civic was mentioned as in manner of speaking. Civic here in India is a premium vehicle, may not be in the US. And yes you are right about approvals, things in the US may be tough now. I was talking about the times when I was in the US (years ago - a few years before 2008). and please do not take me literally. I was trying to refer to the "affordability" factor in comparison.

Overall - I was against the idea of whining after coming back from US.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by Shubz

Civic was mentioned as in manner of speaking. Civic here in India is a premium vehicle, may not be in the US. And yes you are right about approvals, things in the US may be tough now. I was talking about the times when I was in the US (years ago - a few years before 2008). and please do not take me literally. I was trying to refer to the "affordability" factor in comparison.

Overall - I was against the idea of whining after coming back from US.

And i mentioned the same thing, about things being 'affordable'. In USA, most of my American friends believe in living life in present. They don't think much about future. OTOH, we like to think about future too. They enjoy every weekend to the fullest and work hard 5 days a week. That is how the culture was, is and will be. These scenario is slowly changing with people getting more concerned about what will happen in future, but the situation is pretty much the same with youngsters.

Even i am against whining. But for a regular citizen, is it too much to ask for a little sanity?

[Shubz]

Originally Posted by chevelle

And i mentioned the same thing, about things being 'affordable'. In USA, most of my American friends believe in living life in present. They don't think much about future. OTOH, we like to think about future too. They enjoy every weekend to the fullest and work hard 5 days a week. That is how the culture was, is and will be. These scenario is slowly changing with people getting more concerned about what will happen in future, but the situation is pretty much the same with youngsters.

Even i am against whining. But for a regular citizen, is it too much to ask for a little sanity?

At least out here I guess it is too much to ask for sanity. Nobody would want to own up for anything. And this is a mindset/mental state nobody can cure. It is within each one to act sane. You may act sane, I may act sane, a few others on this forum may. But who would bell the cat? who would drive sanity into everybody.

Example: I was backing my car from my house on to the road. A biker comes close to the front of my car. I back up as far as I could (its a narrow lane) and then I began moving front so i can park, get off, close the gate etc. But our esteemed biker wanted to go in front of me - probably ride in and out of the ditch - but he didn't like the idea of me making him wait. He gives me a dirty look, shows me a hand and rides away. Could I have driven sanity into him? No!

A fruit vendor on a push cart who was passing by waiting too, he witnessed this all and he had the sanity to say - He could've waited for a minute and then easily passed sir. don't know why he was showing you the hand. So this is India for you and I love every bit of it.

Whiners could whine away! Am loving it!

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by noopster

The fact that you have something that someone does not is enough "provocation" for some people.

Completely agree with this. Even though i haven't relocated from another country, i stayed in Chennai for a year and came back to bangalore recently and experienced something, which i hope not to again.

Was driving our old Maruti 800 and waiting to enter into a main road. At a distance i see two morons on a bike. I had my window down they notice me as well.
These guys were atleast 50-60ft away, yet they were so loud i could hear the rider tell his pillion "Maga, chikhudugarella car odisthare" (Kids drive cars these days). As there was sufficient distance between me and him i try to enter the road but the next second this guy is honking and flashing his lights like mad.
So i wait for him to pass and then enter the road. He was lazily going on the left side of the road, so i overtook him. At the next signal, dunno what struck him, he appears from nowhere near the drivers side, uses the choicest of filthy words any human being can use to abuse another, and drives away narrowly missing hitting another car.
I was dumbstruck and didn't react ! I just drove off thinking i'm not worth his pea-sized brain if at all he has any.

Its unbelievable how provoked people can get on the road seeing a 22yr old guy in a car!

[Shubz]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

i could hear the rider tell his pillion "Maga, chikhudugarella car odisthare" (Kids drive cars these days). As there was sufficient distance between me and him i try to enter the road but the next second this guy is honking and flashing his lights like mad.

so i overtook him.

Your mistake was you overtook him! (or probably honked while overtaking). Poor guy would've taken offense to these actions of yours.

On a serious note - This is the highlight of India! Every time its the other guys fault! Very VERY rarely you'd find someone acknowledging their fault and wave out apologetically - We TBhpians (with exceptions of course) would I suppose among a few more folks... And we probably need someone 10 times the size of Anna to knock this attitude out of people's mind.

Exception example: I once saw a TBhp stickered Manza at one of the roadside chai stalls - asked the owner - you on Tbhp?

Answer: Yeah, so?