[audioholic]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

This fixation on Sensex or Nifty is not right. In bearish markets, these two indices comfortably outperform most mutual funds. In bull markets, most mutual fund portfolios leave the indices in the dust. Basically, if your mutual fund portfolio has been lagging the index for a time period of, say 6 months or 1 year, it means absolutely nothing.

Thanks Smartcat. Of course, thats not a right way of comparison. In the longrun, what I want is the portfolio to improve itself over time and find the break even point wrt sensex. Not in terms of returns percentage of portfolio vs Index, but the actual value of the index vs profit/loss percentage. Currently I am following the same manner you have mentioned, by splitting investments across multiple funds and houses, fund types on so on. To make it easier to track the status across multiple fund houses, I wanted this.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Thanks Smartcat. Of course, thats not a right way of comparison. In the longrun, what I want is the portfolio to improve itself over time and find the break even point wrt sensex. Not in terms of returns percentage of portfolio vs Index, but the actual value of the index vs profit/loss percentage. Currently I am following the same manner you have mentioned, by splitting investments across multiple funds and houses, fund types on so on. To make it easier to track the status across multiple fund houses, I wanted this.

XIRR is not right metric for investments less than 1 Yr old.

Why do you want to compare against the index to check the health of the investments? Rather check if you are happy with the absolute returns that you getting and if those returns are helping you towards your goal of not. If you start comparing %age return of your fund with the index performance it will only give you more anxiety. Rebalance the portfolio once in 12-16 months and weed out under performing funds.

Also, it is more important on how a fund holds its value in a bearish market than how it outperforms the index in the bullish market. The downside protection is what will give you more growth over the long years than the performance during the bull run

[carboy]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Why do you want to compare against the index to check the health of the investments?

Because that is the standard benchmark all over the world. If your investment is performing worse than the index, then why not buy the index itself. Your investment would have really low expense ratios then & also index investment gives lesser anxiety than other investments. 80% of my equity portfolio is in the index & I rarely even think about it.

[AnandB]

Yes my advisor switched to Nifty index citing less charges and less fluctuations. I too think even though some funds can outperform index but its not one fund consistently. They also have a chance to fall more than the index fund.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by carboy

Because that is the standard benchmark all over the world. If your investment is performing worse than the index, then why not buy the index itself. Your investment would have really low expense ratios then & also index investment gives lesser anxiety than other investments. 80% of my equity portfolio is in the index & I rarely even think about it.

Agreed. But my point was towards "whether the returns you are getting are meeting your goals in which case do not worry too much about the fund beating the index"

Also , since you have good exposure to index funds, can you tell me how is the performance of the index funds in the bearish market that we have right now compared to similar non-index funds.

Originally Posted by AnandB

Yes my advisor switched to Nifty index citing less charges and less fluctuations. I too think even though some funds can outperform index but its not one fund consistently. They also have a chance to fall more than the index fund.

How is the downside protection of the index funds?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Also , since you have good exposure to index funds, can you tell me how is the performance of the index funds in the bearish market that we have right now compared to similar non-index funds.

As I said, I don't check or track the performance of my index investments explicitly at all. I know it performs same as the index - and everyone in the market has atleast a vague idea about how the index is performing at any time.
I know that on the average I get around 12% growth per year over the long term & I am more than happy with that.

Over the last year, I have also sold & rebought part of the index funds to take advantage of the 1 lakh capital gains exemption & that worked out very well because other than refreshing my funds for capital gains I was also able to buy roughly at 5% lower than what I sold it for.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

How is the downside protection of the index funds?

It's same as the index.

[prashkul]

Originally Posted by dmplog

I refer to NSDL CAS Statement that I receive every month. Ok, it's not ideal but it shows me for each find what's my gain on an annualized basis.

I second it. I too refer to the monthly CAS statement that shows portfolio performance trend for the last 12 months. However, it only shows total value of portfolio over the last 12 months, along with a simple bar chart. If we need to track how our investment decisions (aka buy, sell, purchase, redemption leading to changes in the total cash invested) are impacting the portfolio month-on-month, then I think it needs to be done manually in a MS Excel. I'm not aware of any tool that gives us this feature. MoneyControl, ICICI etc all show a point-in-time value of the portfolio as of the latest market close. CAS statement does include transaction history for the month, so I guess it can be used to build custom tracker/charts.

[Mr. Nobody]

Guys to start with as a safer option can we buy a Sensex fund ? Also is Paytm money a good tool to use to buy MFs?

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

Guys to start with as a safer option can we buy a Sensex fund ? Also is Paytm money a good tool to use to buy MFs?

The utility used for purchasing is not really a factor, the key thing is to get eKYC done and obtain a Common Account Number(CAN), once you have this, you can switch between any tool/platform based on your preference.

Do checkout https://www.mfuindia.com this is by the MF industry body itself, UI is not great, but does the job. I use http://piggy.co.in and the reason was not because it was the best, but enabled me to get the e-KYC done in a hassle free manner.

Stock market has its risks and these are best averaged out in an index fund. Likewise corporate goveranance is expected to be lower for companies under the Nifty/sensex since scrutiny is higher.
On the valuations though - there are people who say the Sensex/Nifty are overvalued, some say the same indices will scale new highs etc. etc. Check out https://www.bseindia.com/sensex/code/16/ for the variations over time.

[sgiitk]

With our economy reportedly having bottomed, the may be the right time to enter the MFs. With the INR expected to improve vis a vis the $ this will only be the icing on the cake. I am planning to enter the MFs now.

[S_U_N]

I am now in the process of working with FundsIndia to convert my status from Resident Indian to Non-Resident Indian.
One of the statements they made is:
>>In Funds India, we will be able to change the tax status only after moving the existing investments with RI tax status to offline by sending a written request to FundsIndia along with the Change of tax status request. You can redeem the offline folios by giving a physical redemption request to the fund house.


This is quite strange because they expect me to redeem via physical redemption - which is impractical for an NRI.

How are other NRI's handing this?

[hothatchaway]

More pain in the offing for debt mutual funds. With operations of Vodafone-Idea tottering, AMC holding commercial papers of Vodafone India are staring at a markdown

http://www.cogencis.com/newssection/...navs-of-4-mfs/

The write-down of value by the UK's Vodafone Group to its Indian arm Vodafone Idea could alter the valuation of debt securities by mutual funds due to mark-down of assets of schemes holding debt securities issued by the company.



According to data by Morningstar, Franklin Templeton Mutual Fund, UTI Mutual Fund, Aditya Birla Sun Life Mutual Fund, and Nippon India Mutual Fund had exposure to debt securities of Vodafone Idea Ltd to the tune of 38 bln rupees as on Sep 30

[shipnil]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

More pain in the offing for debt mutual funds. With operations of Vodafone-Idea tottering, AMC holding commercial papers of Vodafone India are staring at a markdown

http://www.cogencis.com/newssection/...navs-of-4-mfs/

I have one Franklin fund which has about 3.5% portfolio of Vodafone. How much impact would be there on Yield due to this markdown?

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by shipnil

I have one Franklin fund which has about 3.5% portfolio of Vodafone. How much impact would be there on Yield due to this markdown?

Depends on what kind of debt fund it is (as the maturity tenure of the instruments will come into play) If its ultra short bond and IF there is indeed a markdown, there could be an impact of the extend of exposure (~3%) upto 6 months. So in other words, if the NAV does take a hit it may take 3-6 months to bounce back.

Despite all the corporate defaults that have happened recently (IL&FS, DHFL etc) debt funds of the leading AMCs have shown resilience. If its a popular fund with a healthy AUM, chances are nothing will happen.

[bullrun87]

Originally Posted by shipnil

I have one Franklin fund which has about 3.5% portfolio of Vodafone. How much impact would be there on Yield due to this markdown?

It depends on whether there is a markdown or a default and there is nothing to suggest that a vodafone default or markdown is imminent. Most vodafone papers are expiring in 2020, 2022 or 2023. Franklin AMC has 2020 and 2023 papers and these are already rated as A and A- . The impact on yeilds will depend on the extent of the markdown if any. These papers are mostly illiquid and the AMC will find it hard to sell them. A vodafone default will be catastrophic for the market. Franklin AMC takes lots of credit risk. Most of their funds, even the ultra short term and low duration fund can easily pass as credit risk funds.