Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend

mayankjha1806 · 7th February 2012, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daewood

My question was not about my Ph.No or user-Id being sold,
it was about the contents of my phone calls or email/msgs being sold.

Thats a wrong statement. No one google or FB never let any other external app or advertiser know about your intrest areas. They only crawl that data to show you advt. At this point the advertiser does have no context as to who the impression was shown. Only when u click on the advt you are directed to the advertisers page. On FB apps like tripadviser when you enable them on your profile it asks specifically of you agree to share your personal info with that app. If you do not agree you have a choice of not installing that app.

On crawling you email contents, if you are very touchy about it you have a choice of turning it off, as i had shown in my previous post with an image.

PS: Forgot to add, just want to make sure we are not talking about tech possibilities, as they are endless. Technically anything can be done, but its not done as google takes privacy concerns very seriously as it can be potentially sued for this.

cranky · 7th February 2012, 20:15

Let me add another note.

No advertiser is interested in you. What they are interested in is demographic data, and behaviour patterns in media.

Which basically means they want to target groups of people, either as large as possible or as tightly focussed to their business area as possible.

The way a website collates data does not interest an advertiser. What matters is the number and kind of people that can be reached using a specific kind of medium, and then tailor my presentation, style and content to that specific medium if it makes economical sense to me.

For example, for a new car launch I would like to talk to the widest possible number of people. At the same time I would want to engage with a small but highly focused community like T-BHP, but it would be a poor show if I did exactly the same kind of activity in both places.

So a car review sponsored by a manufacturer is in fact, a form of advertising. The lovely thing is that the manufacturer has little control over sites like this one so the opinions tend to be free and frank (because the owners owe it to the community). It may result in a poor review of the product, but that is the risk that a manufacturer runs. In any case, most marketing money is a risk anyway but one can't do without it in the capitalist economy.

On an email site, the filtering process is fully automated. If there are keywords in your email that match keywords in advertising that is to be served to people in your demographic, the server will present that ad to *people like you*. It is easy to guess demographic - if I am able to scan through a few hundred of your emails I can paint a reasonably accurate picture of who you are, where you live, what your main interest areas are, who your top friends are (ironically, email programs are still better at this than Facebook) etc.

However it is important to note that none of this is done at the level of a single individual. It is simply too data-intensive. Instead, we tend to form clusters of people with certain interests and serve them ads based on keywords. So for example if I am negotiating a deal on 'new car India - a typical search term) with Google, it will not share with me your individual details (or even large demographic details). It simply tells me how many people in that particular demographic searched for the keywords I bid for, and the more popular the keyword the more it costs to buy.

The only people to whom Google releases details individually is law enforcement agencies, after proper authorisation is provided.

So you can relax a bit. There is more data in the world than available storage. At least till now.

jkdas · 7th February 2012, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Like somebody said, mobile companies can track your movement if required. FB, Google & other web companies collect a lot of information about its users. A person like Richard Stallman might object to this, but a lot, in fact almost all don't care about this.

Did you read google's latest privacy policy?
Privacy Policy ? Policies & Principles

Log information – When you access Google services via a browser, application or other client our servers automatically record certain information. These server logs may include information such as your web request, your interaction with a service, Internet Protocol address, browser type, browser language, the date and time of your request and one or more cookies that may uniquely identify your browser or your account.

User communications – When you send email or other communications to Google, we may retain those communications in order to process your inquiries, respond to your requests and improve our services. When you send and receive SMS messages to or from one of our services that provides SMS functionality, we may collect and maintain information associated with those messages, such as the phone number, the wireless carrier associated with the phone number, the content of the message, and the date and time of the transaction. We may use your email address to communicate with you about our services.

Read the rest too.

Bluengel180 · 7th February 2012, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Did you read google's latest privacy policy?
Privacy Policy ? Policies & Principles

Log information – When you access Google services via a browser, application or other client our servers automatically record certain information. These server logs may include information such as your web request, your interaction with a service, Internet Protocol address, browser type, browser language, the date and time of your request and one or more cookies that may uniquely identify your browser or your account.

User communications – When you send email or other communications to Google, we may retain those communications in order to process your inquiries, respond to your requests and improve our services. When you send and receive SMS messages to or from one of our services that provides SMS functionality, we may collect and maintain information associated with those messages, such as the phone number, the wireless carrier associated with the phone number, the content of the message, and the date and time of the transaction. We may use your email address to communicate with you about our services.

Read the rest too.

Exactly, its all listed. And if you're not fine with this you can choose to delete your account.And its not just google, almost every site uses the stuff listed. even team Bhp stores cookies identifying your machine and your browser etc etc so that you dont have to log in each time and you can continue where you left off

And for people who think that their "privacy" is just being violated by facebook or google. check this out

Leaked Memo Says Apple Provides Backdoor To Governments - Slashdot
Indian firms in Wikileaks surveillance leak - World News - IBNLive
http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle2678603.ece

Google ONLY uses your data to enhance its service and deliver personal ads to you (their revenue backbone) If they dared to share any of that data there are plenty of governments and privacy groups keeping watch who will sue their asses out of the internet.

Privacy concerns are legimate. just make sure you direct it at the right people

msdivy · 7th February 2012, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Did you read google's latest privacy policy?
Privacy Policy ? Policies & Principles

Yes, that reiterates the point that websites can collect & do collect information about users and store their data. By now most would have accepted the recent privacy policy by Google. And even if they learn the actual terms, how many would cancel their Google & FB accounts?

Sam Kapasi · 8th February 2012, 12:36

Privacy is overrated.

It is all a matter of choices. If one feels so strongly about his/her privacy and would like to maintain a low profile, this needs to be respected. By the person himself/herself.

Quote:

At the end of the day you may choose, as Stallman has done, to simply not use the service/s, and advocate for change. Each user has that choice and should make that choice.

In the words of Obelix, zigackly!

Nobody is obliged to use google or facebook. Nobody.

Sam Kapasi · 8th February 2012, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Yes, that reiterates the point that websites can collect & do collect information about users and store their data. By now most would have accepted the recent privacy policy by Google. And even if they learn the actual terms, how many would cancel their Google & FB accounts?

Oh yes and on that note, how many here quickly scroll to the "I accept" button as fast as they can, no matter what they are installing - without reading a single word?

I know I do.

jkdas · 8th February 2012, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluengel180

Exactly, its all listed. And if you're not fine with this you can choose to delete your account.And its not just google, almost every site uses the stuff listed. even team Bhp stores cookies identifying your machine and your browser etc etc so that you dont have to log in each time and you can continue where you left off

And for people who think that their "privacy" is just being violated by facebook or google. check this out

Leaked Memo Says Apple Provides Backdoor To Governments - Slashdot
Indian firms in Wikileaks surveillance leak - World News - IBNLive
The Hindu : News / International : Big Brother is everywhere now

Google ONLY uses your data to enhance its service and deliver personal ads to you (their revenue backbone) If they dared to share any of that data there are plenty of governments and privacy groups keeping watch who will sue their asses out of the internet.

Privacy concerns are legimate. just make sure you direct it at the right people

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Yes, that reiterates the point that websites can collect & do collect information about users and store their data. By now most would have accepted the recent privacy policy by Google. And even if they learn the actual terms, how many would cancel their Google & FB accounts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Oh yes and on that note, how many here quickly scroll to the "I accept" button as fast as they can, no matter what they are installing - without reading a single word?

I know I do.

+ 1

I just posted the new rules google came out with since I know most wont read it and one fine day will start abusing google etc.

sgiitk · 8th February 2012, 16:09

Has anybody asked the reason for the popularity of Facebook. Many folks think that it satisfies the voyeuristic leanings of the members in anonymity. I will add exhibitionist to this.

Durango Dude · 9th February 2012, 22:09

Basically all these sites (like TBHP) encourages sharing and camaraderie to a certain extent. If one is so fiercely private he/she better not enroll. In this age there is no way you are going to make life easy for yourself by being overly paranoid. Even booking tickets/tours online and buying anything online isn't possible if you don't wish to share your name/address/phone number. Suppose you want the a/c repaired you'll have to give the above mentioned details to some stranger in a call center. If one is soo fiercely paranoid of ones privacy he/she would be better of living in the stone age.

vivekiny2k · 9th February 2012, 22:16

which is why i have moved to bing for all searches. email and calendar etc on google, searches on bing. and never logon to bing/facebook.

gives me some level of personal segregation. specially considering the kind of searches i do

Bluengel180 · 9th February 2012, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

which is why i have moved to bing for all searches. email and calendar etc on google, searches on bing. and never logon to bing/facebook.

gives me some level of personal segregation. specially considering the kind of searches i do

Remember that every search/web page you visit is saved on the ISP server for a minimum of 90 days.

Anyway, i do understand that some people are really concerned about privacy and think google isnt safe when it comes to that.

Here is a great new search engine that caters to your needs. don't go by the name, it is very popular

https://duckduckgo.com/

vivekiny2k · 9th February 2012, 23:23

I know it can link the page to my IP, but not to the rest of my online life. And hopefully it needs a court order to access that information.

cranky · 10th February 2012, 00:24

Or use two browsers, which is what I do. Let alone searching, some websites (specially news and blogs) automatically link themselves to your FB profile if you as much as read them and happen to click (even mistakenly) on the social networking button.

Better still, use social on the mobile (where it is anyway more convenient and actually helpful as it syncs all contacts) and use the web to only browse content.

Samurai · 8th June 2018, 12:50

The Facebook business model is beautifully explained by Trevor Noah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxVFssljoLY

7th February 2012, 20:15	#32
cranky BHPian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Delhi Posts: 235 Thanked: 133 Times	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend Let me add another note. No advertiser is interested in you. What they are interested in is demographic data, and behaviour patterns in media. Which basically means they want to target groups of people, either as large as possible or as tightly focussed to their business area as possible. The way a website collates data does not interest an advertiser. What matters is the number and kind of people that can be reached using a specific kind of medium, and then tailor my presentation, style and content to that specific medium if it makes economical sense to me. For example, for a new car launch I would like to talk to the widest possible number of people. At the same time I would want to engage with a small but highly focused community like T-BHP, but it would be a poor show if I did exactly the same kind of activity in both places. So a car review sponsored by a manufacturer is in fact, a form of advertising. The lovely thing is that the manufacturer has little control over sites like this one so the opinions tend to be free and frank (because the owners owe it to the community). It may result in a poor review of the product, but that is the risk that a manufacturer runs. In any case, most marketing money is a risk anyway but one can't do without it in the capitalist economy. On an email site, the filtering process is fully automated. If there are keywords in your email that match keywords in advertising that is to be served to people in your demographic, the server will present that ad to people like you. It is easy to guess demographic - if I am able to scan through a few hundred of your emails I can paint a reasonably accurate picture of who you are, where you live, what your main interest areas are, who your top friends are (ironically, email programs are still better at this than Facebook) etc. However it is important to note that none of this is done at the level of a single individual. It is simply too data-intensive. Instead, we tend to form clusters of people with certain interests and serve them ads based on keywords. So for example if I am negotiating a deal on 'new car India - a typical search term) with Google, it will not share with me your individual details (or even large demographic details). It simply tells me how many people in that particular demographic searched for the keywords I bid for, and the more popular the keyword the more it costs to buy. The only people to whom Google releases details individually is law enforcement agencies, after proper authorisation is provided. So you can relax a bit. There is more data in the world than available storage. At least till now.
	(1) Thanks

8th February 2012, 16:09	#39
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend Has anybody asked the reason for the popularity of Facebook. Many folks think that it satisfies the voyeuristic leanings of the members in anonymity. I will add exhibitionist to this.
	(2) Thanks

9th February 2012, 22:09	#40
Durango Dude Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,948 Thanked: 5,120 Times View My Garage	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend Basically all these sites (like TBHP) encourages sharing and camaraderie to a certain extent. If one is so fiercely private he/she better not enroll. In this age there is no way you are going to make life easy for yourself by being overly paranoid. Even booking tickets/tours online and buying anything online isn't possible if you don't wish to share your name/address/phone number. Suppose you want the a/c repaired you'll have to give the above mentioned details to some stranger in a call center. If one is soo fiercely paranoid of ones privacy he/she would be better of living in the stone age.
	() Thanks

9th February 2012, 22:16	#41
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend which is why i have moved to bing for all searches. email and calendar etc on google, searches on bing. and never logon to bing/facebook. gives me some level of personal segregation. specially considering the kind of searches i do
	() Thanks

9th February 2012, 23:23	#43
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend I know it can link the page to my IP, but not to the rest of my online life. And hopefully it needs a court order to access that information.
	() Thanks

10th February 2012, 00:24	#44
cranky BHPian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Delhi Posts: 235 Thanked: 133 Times	Re: Facebook is a surveillance engine not a friend Or use two browsers, which is what I do. Let alone searching, some websites (specially news and blogs) automatically link themselves to your FB profile if you as much as read them and happen to click (even mistakenly) on the social networking button. Better still, use social on the mobile (where it is anyway more convenient and actually helpful as it syncs all contacts) and use the web to only browse content. Last edited by cranky : 10th February 2012 at 00:27.
	() Thanks