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11th October 2012, 19:48 | #31 |
BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Need Help/Advice : Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal ? |
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11th October 2012, 19:57 | #32 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? It is unfortunate what you have to go through. Don't fret. Just don't sign on that backdated letter. If they terminate you, let them do so. You can always say you were offered a much lower salary than what was in your offer letter and when you didn't accept it, they terminated your employment. You can show your bank statement with salary credit and offer letter to substantiate this fact to your new employer. And look out for a new job. Since its only 2 months since you have joined, am sure you have at least one or two offers which you considered before taking up this job. And don't go the legal way. Its not worth it. If you want to put a scare in them, you can send a lawyers notice (Any lawyer will do this for you at a reasonable cost) informing them of unlawful termination and threatening to go to the labour court, press and social media. No organisation wants mud on their faces. |
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11th October 2012, 19:59 | #33 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pune
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
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Send (if you have not done this already and whether you plan to pursue it legally or not) an email to HR (and a copy to your boss and department head) stating that in the original offer letter, the company had promised you a salary of xx lakhs per year and a yearly bonus. However in the appointment letter given to you at the time of joining, the company has put a monthly figure that is less than the originally promised remuneration. Ask them why these are different and why the details of the annual remuneration are missing? Quote:
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If you really are willing to continue (until perhaps you find another job) with this job with a lesser (the latest offer) salary ask the management to provide you with an offer letter that is dated now but they can clearly mention that they had made an error in offering you a higher salary in the original appointment letter and that the new remuneration package has retrospective effect from 1-Aug-2012. You can send this suggestion again to HR & your boss via email. You should not have an issue in signing that letter. You can also check (if possible) what they are paying to people of your qualification and experience and if it is close to what is being offered to you now, they may have genuinely made a mistake. But it looks like they have no idea how to deal with that. In any case they cannot hold you responsible for any financial fraud. Please make sure to keep your personal email ID on cc if you are using the company email ID to send the emails. Also take printouts (save the .pst) files of your communication. About terminating the job - most of the companies have a clause that permits them to fire an employee without assigning any reason whatsoever. (Same as what the employee can do - leaving the job anytime). Both the parties can usually pay the other in lieu of any notice period. And in the worst case, signing the backdated letter will not have any legal issue as long as you agree to that and are willing to receive the lower remuneration. If you are willing to make that temporary compromise, it is still alright, if the job gives you the opportunity to learn/improve your skills. If it does not, start looking for a new job and quit once you find one. This experience itself would be a learning for you and will help you when you take up new jobs in the future. -Biju Last edited by GTO : 12th October 2012 at 08:29. Reason: Editing quoted post which has been edited | ||||
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11th October 2012, 22:04 | #34 | ||||||||||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
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I did not give up on company, company had to lose my services due to its own errors. Quote:
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That is illegal. Recording a manager/DGM voice in the office premises amounts to a legal offense. That is what I know, kindly update me if you have further information on this. Quote:
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2) In detail everything is provided. 3) That is last resort, this mail could lead to instant termination without payment. And the only option would then be legal one. 4) Correct. I would never let my work get affected. 5) I already tried this option, but they are not ready to budge at any cost. I already tried this option, but they are not ready to budge at any cost. Quote:
2) Yes, even a slight error would be made a big issue without any reason. I am aware of this risk. Chances are : even if I sign, they wont let me work for long. 3) This is a pvt. ltd. firm, and I am not having access to balance sheet to know if they are actually making profit. In any case, they wont be paying my any bonus this year which is against what they had earlier claimed. 4) I can claim that less salary was being paid to me. I have proof of that. Moreover, this is also an online thing which will help me in case the firm decides to just speak "This case never existed". 5) 100% true. As I mentioned earlier in my post, the trust factor is missing. Ego, ethics and laws are already broken by the demands made by firm on me. The remaining factor of trust, which cannot be quantified, is just lost. 6) For sure my work wont be affected. If it did, I would one of those who believe in unethical practices. My parents were very clear from day one of this issue and asked me if I worked properly or not. I replied that work is work and I wont break company's trust on work parameters. Thanks a lot guys with your views. With your views and guided understanding, I was able to talk firm with HR. HR lady admitted that this demand from their side was not ethical atleast. Regarding legalities involved, she was quiet. Thanks guys for warning me. And thanks a lot TBHP! Last edited by aaggoswami : 11th October 2012 at 22:10. | ||||||||||||
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11th October 2012, 23:01 | #35 |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? First of all, "on-paper" salary is not necessarily what you will get: companies (even large corporates) have clever ways of calculating "CTC" (cost to company). For example, my company always issues offer letters assuming 100% variable component payout. Since the variable component is considerable, especially for senior roles, you could end up getting less (in current environment) or MORE (in boom time) than what your letter says. But secondly, and more importantly, work environment is very important for peace of mind. I personally find that working around good people keeps me productive and happy and working around bad people is very demotivating and anxiety-inducing. The way your manager reacted (passing the buck to HR) and the HR people are as well, I suggest you lose no sleep over this. Just put in your papers and make sure you communicate the reasons very clearly: your disappointment at the company's lack of transparency and your unwillingness to go along with something that sounds borderline if not outright illegal. There are surely better companies out there to work with! |
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13th October 2012, 07:26 | #36 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
2) True, the will or rather the inner urge to go there is lost. Its now rather a more mechanical thing. Adding to troubles is missing trust factor from either sides. This amounts to mental torture I must say. No trust, no enthusiasm to work, etc. combined with other negative emotions. UPDATE: Yesterday, I was given an apology letter in letter head of my firm. This apology letter was signed by an HR consultant ( who, the firm believes, is instrumental in Solving my case ). REASON : IT WAS A HUMAN TYPO ERROR. I am losing Rs. 2.52 lakh with the new deal company has managed to strike. Certainly I am not happy with this. A simple typo error leads to such a big amount of loss for employee, an employee who had let govt. jobs slip out of his hand for this firm. As you all had mentioned, this was a clear cut case of unethical and even illegal practices followed in the organization. A simple typo error committed by HR leads to a big loss for an employee and yet, the firm is constant that I have to sign a letter. The game here is that the letter given to me as apology does not have any permanent employee's signature who also has to be competent authority. | |
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13th October 2012, 10:47 | #37 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
Option 1. If you are ok with the lesser salary, till such time you get a better job, sign on it and continue. Option 2. Just resign and get out of there ASAP. You can make more productive use of your time at home for looking for a better job with an ethical organisation. I would have gone ahead with Option 2. Its not worth continuing any further. Im sure this is what they want and what will give you some amount of relief as well. No point being associated with an unethical organisation. But hey, that's just me. You need to weigh your options and take a decision which you can live with and dont regret. | |
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13th October 2012, 11:01 | #38 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: N Delhi
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
Secondly they are now trying to shift the blame on someone else to escape their legal liability. Now you need to mull over whether this place is worth your time and how you want to shape your future professional career. Best course is, as everyone is suggesting make an exit. If you do exit these scumbags will most likely ask you to enter into a settlement foregoing your monetary claims and insuring them against any future legal liability, as a quid pro quo for references which do not show you in a bad light. Bargain, make a deal and exit. You will be better off for doing so. | |
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13th October 2012, 11:46 | #39 |
Distinguished - BHPian | They're still yanking your chain. No authority figure has put pen to paper. I'd say time to start popping up on consultants radars, no? |
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13th October 2012, 14:26 | #40 |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Hyderabad
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? This is what my elder brother had to say. He is not a member here but wanted this message to be posted. He has switched quite a number of companies in his career and has dealt with a variety of Bosses and HRs- If the company is big there must be a compliance dept. 1. He should contact his compliance officer. 2. If there is no reportee under him, he is liable to be protected by labor court. The filing of case is very easy and less expensive. 3. The HR is trying to hide his/her mistake from his or her boss. 90% chance is that if the HR head or some body holding a responsibility of total operations in India, is contacted HR and his boss may loose his or her job. My suggestion to every one in private sectors especially working in MNC giants should know their compliance officer for India and APAC/Top Boss of the company in India and his Boss/HR head Global with Phone no. and e-mail I.D. Please keep in mind any MNC can not afford to violate the law of the land. |
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13th October 2012, 19:33 | #41 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Quote:
2) Its just a matter of time ( very short ) before things get on threshold. I am out then. What you have stated is true. Now, things are actually getting dirty and purely political rather than issue oriented. Quote:
I did talk to lawyers and they did say that signing a letter like this might easily amount to fraud and evasion of tax. Quote:
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And to all those whom I talk to in the firm, all are shocked that my boss behaved rudely and wrongly. Believe me, my boss lost credibility that he had earned by working in this organisation for long. That is his long term loss. HR also lost a lot of respect. A big thumbs-up to TBHP and all of YOU, the members who are helping me out. Monday would be deciding day now! | ||||
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13th October 2012, 21:41 | #42 |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? @Aggoswami, the boss & HR wouldnt take it kindly or lightly if they come to know you have spoken about this to other employees. I would suggest you exit & get into another, better ogranization where things are (more) straight-forward. |
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14th October 2012, 11:16 | #43 |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hyderabad
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? It could indeed be a typo. Believing that could ease your anguish thinking it was a mistake and not that someone was fooling you intentionally. IMO, you might as well sign that damned letter and continue working for the company, but look for other opportunities from NOW. About someone coming after you for tax evasion and stuff - that wont happen for the numbers you are talking about. Search for offers and consider leaving at the first opportunity! Last edited by vij : 14th October 2012 at 11:18. |
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14th October 2012, 13:53 | #44 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BOM, PNQ, DXB
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? Once again aaggoswami do not be naive and post plans on a publicly visible forum. - if someone does a search for your last name, and I hope your handle is not your last name. He/she can know what your intentions are. Just my 2 cents. Be careful. Best of luck |
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14th October 2012, 14:00 | #45 |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Home
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| Re: Is signing a BACK-DATED Appointment letter Illegal? What about your colleagues in the same position? Are you aware of what their pay bracket is? I'm just trying to confirm if it indeed was a typo. |
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