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17th April 2015, 12:12 | #166 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
If LG agrees to pay the bill, for running a LG washing machine, most customers would happily sign up for it. But, what if, your Electric DisCom, prevents you from using a Samsung washing machine, irrespective of whether or not, Samsung is paying the bill, then what would you do? Or, if the Electric DisCom, wants to charge you a punitive tariff in case you choose to use a Samsung or any other brand machine. Would that be fair, in your opinion? | |
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17th April 2015, 12:38 | #167 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet A more concerning aspect about this is the privacy, or rather lack of it. Let us assume that this plan is implemented. Does it mean that my telecom provider will track the sites I visit ? Then he will sell this data to the site that I visit frequently for targeted advertisement. Eg, if majority of my internet time is spent on Facebook, the telecom companies could potentially sell my internet history !! They will keep my history for a month claiming that it is needed for billing purposes. Also, what about a small website owner like me ? Upon google search, my site is displayed on the first page when a relevant query is sent. But since I don't have the money to pay to telecom companies, they will restrict the speed to my site. What will my website's users do in that case? Also, can you imagine t-bhp site restricted to 64kbps because it won't pay the telecom companies ? This regulation if implemented will only cause more troubles. This will allow all others to use such practices. Examples : 1.seperate lane for certain car manufacturers, over and above the normal toll 2.entry to a mall only if you wear xyz branded clothes 3.tata sky will work only on samsung TV, and airtelTV will work on sony 4.for VW Beetle owners, faster fuel dispenser (refer the Love Bug) |
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17th April 2015, 12:51 | #168 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: EU - Nordic
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
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Also, even if company X advertises on my newspaper, I have the choice to buy another product who may not advertise in the same newspaper without paying my newspaper any extra money. Last edited by StarrySky : 17th April 2015 at 13:00. | ||||
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17th April 2015, 13:07 | #169 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
Your post mentioned shopping shelf space which any business is free to use as it pleases, the toll road analogy doesn't apply if your car is blocked from going to the other store. To put it another way, on a long weekend, you'll be asked to wait indefinitely at a toll booth because you chose a cheaper hotel and your neighbour is waved through because he is staying at the poshest place which has paid the toll operator to let your neighbour go first. This means that people have to shift to the more expensive place, which shuts down cheaper competition and finally you go faster only to pay more and put up with whatever you are offered because the competition couldn't control access. | |
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17th April 2015, 13:14 | #170 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: LandOfNoWinters
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
2. So what is the issue if Whatsapp again starts charging back? If you do not like the service and do not like paying, you make a switch. 3. But why do you wish to clamp down on prices being paid by the seller? Because you are afraid that more people wil visit his site instead of others? The other sellers are in competitive market, they are not going to sit back and take it lightly. Because you are afraid that small startups won't be able to compete? Hmm, so you think a promising idea will not allow a flurry of investors. And that capital inflow will not allow them to tie up with Airtel or some other vendor? Or that Airtel smelling a good opportunity will not be interested in doing business with this small fry? 4. Agreed you have a choice to ignore the advertisement. And you feel that it is slightly more of an effort to ignore the free access to flipkart. But hey, no is still compelling you to access flipkart and buy. Quote:
So how is it in a monopoly? Quote:
2. You are assuming that the entire human race is devoid of business men who cannot smell an opportunity and will not put up a similar class hotel with similar tie-ups with the toll vendor! What will a higher supply of similar things do? Drive down the price. I see it better for humanity if 5 star facility become affordable, and people abandon staying in roadside pipes. The roadside pipes will always remain cheaper than 5 star facility though. I am frankly at a loss to keep explaining the same concepts about market, competition and entrepreneurship in every post. The world today is because of these reason, not because of Govt regulations about ensuring neutrality in everything. Quote:
2. US ... free market? Only for a limited number of things. Most of US is tightly controlled by Govt just like in India. 3. Funny right? Densely populated area (ergo huge market), and only two providers? How can such a scenario ever occur? Last edited by alpha1 : 17th April 2015 at 13:33. | ||||
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17th April 2015, 13:18 | #171 | |
Team-BHP Support | Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
Unregulated market need not be a free market, StarrySky has explained it very well. | |
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17th April 2015, 13:33 | #172 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
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BTW, lets do this thought experiment: Out of the 1 billion in India, if 100 million supports net neutrality while the rest of the 900 million would do with a restricted internet, why do you want to take that choice away from the 900 million people? On the contrary, if 900 million supports net neutrality, then why this hullabaloo? Restricted internet is already dead. Why do you need a legislation for that? Again, if 900 million supports a restricted internet, and you think that they do it because they are ignorant, why do you think that you can think better than them? Free markets, anyone? | |||
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17th April 2015, 13:38 | #173 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Pune
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
And where these regulations are not followed (the un-organised and backward sectors), it does lead to exploitation to a large extent. Plus, I think when you say this, you are speaking against your own point. We want the internet to be free and not controlled by telecom or the government. Are you for controlling it? by tie ups made between your ISP and the vendor, they are in a way controlling your internet experience. If the vendor was so inclined, he could offer freebie's to user's from a certain telecom provider. Let him do that and try to get customer's to come to his site and buy, rather than saying let people access my site and block/throttle my competitors. There is a difference between wooing and forcing my hand. Variable toll prices (peak time based tolls) according to me is a fair exercise since it applies equally to everyone travelling during the peak time. I feel it is something that will eventually start getting implemented. I am not assuming anything, but it is the future that we are talking about so you are predicting something and I am predicting the opposite. The fact remains that zero rating, subsidised access to selective services is something that is stopped/rejected the world over with the single reason that these have a strong possibility of violating net neutrality and shunting innovation. | |
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17th April 2015, 13:46 | #174 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
Regulations to protect the freedom of the internet and preventing oligopolies is a must. There indeed, is, a fundamental disconnect, as you rightly highlight many posts back. | |
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17th April 2015, 14:20 | #175 | |||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: EU - Nordic
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
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If the AirTel Zero platform allowed "me" and a service provider "of my choice" on the internet to reach an agreement where he will pay AirTel for my access to his own site, then that would be OK from the point of view of net neutrality (although eventually this would also lead to price hikes). It is not for AirTel to decide what I should do. | |||
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17th April 2015, 14:40 | #176 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
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Last edited by blacksport : 17th April 2015 at 14:41. | |||
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17th April 2015, 14:59 | #177 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
Before you experiment. Here's are actual facts and figures. Only 20%of Indians have Internet access. The majority, around 60% have access only on mobile, less than 100 million have any say about net neutrality. The regulating agency is in cahoots with operators. The 900 million in your example will be better served when they can choose what they want with their data, whether it is buying from Amazon or the local store that has a website, instead of the government starting a racket to protect the big boys. Free markets don't apply to every industry, compare rail services in the UK versus France or Germany, the free market has been a disaster. The Internet will be a tool to deliver services that go far beyond crap like Facebook and WhatsApp, I won't trust the licensed monopolies (the telcos you support have chosen to be the rent seeking class, now they want to benefit from work they haven't done) to decide what's best for the country. The TRAI paper mentions national security threats from an open Internet, clear evidence that the right people have been paid off. | |
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17th April 2015, 15:09 | #178 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
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17th April 2015, 15:40 | #179 | |
Team-BHP Support | Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet Quote:
But in the absense of a regulatory framework what is stopping telcos from throttling sites they do not like. This happened in USA where comcast started throttling netflix. If you Allow "ZERO" with a walled garden, you are basically allowing a controlled internet. This goes against freedom. Does having a forced open internet go against "freedom of telcos". Well, it does not matter. Individual freedom should always have greater freedom than freedom of corporations, unless you want to live in a oligarchy. Of course alpha1 may disagree with me, and think that corporate freedom needs higher priority. But then that is his opinion, which makes it a fundamental disconnect between ideologies. Its perfectly valid to have an ideology where corporate freedom is supreme. After all, that is the very basis of "freedom" Fun fact, thanks to lobbying USA is effectively an oligarchy http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 Last edited by tsk1979 : 17th April 2015 at 15:42. | |
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17th April 2015, 15:43 | #180 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet
The supporters of net neutrality are saying that access would be the first casualty of these proposed shakedown norms, the companies are pushing for that and protection fees from those who are in e-commerce. I have an opinion on this, but I can't take away someone's right to self destructive behaviour, you can choose to purchase access to fb alone, I don't want access to news blogs slowed because I chose to ignore status updates from people I barely know, access is the issue not pricing plans. |
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