[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Those in the salaried sector have to pay the price they do on this count - it is the price to pay for wanting job security by working for someone else as just an employee. Get some initiative, start a business, and reap all the consequent benefits for the risks taken. And enjoy hearing the salaried people that cannot do this, moan about their taxes deducted at source.

Job security is only for those in govt. Salaried in the private sector don't get this perk !!.

To me it's ridiculous that the MLA, MPs and Ministers and government servants (an oxymoron) are paid such high salaries and perks. Ideally they should only be paid a multiple of per-capita income in PPP of the population. Say 8 times per-capita income for the top political office (President's job) in the country. Do this and start seeing increase in the per-capita income of the country !!

Apparently the US president's salary is around 6.5 times the per-capital income in PPP terms of the average american. The US army chief's salary is around 3 times the PPP per capita income. In comparison, the largest democracy's president, PM and Army chiefs and IAS honchos make at-least 12 to 15 times.

Why is nobody talking about this !!!?

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

Job security is only for those in govt. Salaried in the private sector don't get this perk !!.

Isn't this relative? Try being a self employed businessman to feel the tension from the lack of a safety net below your act, that even those in the private sector have.

As for MPs, they do have to get re-elected to keep their full salary package, so there is that insecurity.

And as to jobs as bureaucrats - I don't know too many that have good jobs in the private sector complain that they are there only because they could not be a bureaucrat.

I don't grudge the high salaries; lower salaries will attract even more monkeys than today. But the thing is that high salaries should come with high accountability. How to get that is what needs addressing.

[A M]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

As for MPs, they do have to get re-elected to keep their full salary package, so there is that insecurity.

Govt. employee is not allowed to work outside of their employment but MPs/MLAs are not barred from doing business on the sides apart from being a full-time MP/MLA. Also, they get paid lifetime pension even if they serve only one day in office. They have that security net.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Isn't this relative? Try being a self employed businessman to feel the tension from the lack of a safety net below your act, that even those in the private sector have.

Agree that this is relative and entirely circumstantial. Smart ones - private sector employee or the self employed businessman create his own safety net. Most of the self employed guys actually have a better safety net. However on the whole the government sector has job security while the private sector don't. Pensions are part of job security too.

The point I was trying to make is that the system is badly broken and there is no accountability. To have accountability you need to measure the right metrics/KPIs and connect rewards to it. For a government, per capita income in PPP should be an important metric and the top jobs in the government should have their salaries directly tied to this metric.

[Sawyer]

Unfortunately this isn't a simple task of turning around a private sector company; I have done that more than once and I know that it is actually quite a simple thing to do if one knows how. And it is so easy to get a company to march to the beat of one drum, in comparison.

I doubt there is any consensus on the "how" as far as turning India around is concerned. There isn't even a conversation on the subject anywhere.

And maybe these high salaries will get more educated Indians to devote their lives to public service? Faint hopes?

[vinukm]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Allocating Rs. 2000 Cr for healthcare needs of 50 Cr people is not sufficient in anyway. 2000 cr is less than the cost of a new fighter jet. Even insurance premiums for 50 Cr people would cost more than this. Come to think of it, people who just read the headlimes would feel good about being protected till they get to know the fine print. It is a brilliant advertising and PR strategy but may not be an effective one. Healtcare costs have zoomed in the last 5 years. It costs 30 to 40,000 a night in a decent private hospital ICU and most insurance companies do not offer cashless claims. It is no wonder that private hospitals are cheering this move. They might get a few more captive consumers, while state hospitals, which have the best doctors, will remain underfunded.

The last lucrative avenue for wealth creation- equity markets- have also been included in the tax umbrella. A salaried person pays close to 50 percent of his income as tax and receives neither free education, nor healthcare coverage nor a clean bureaucractic support system. Taxing people to give MPs a better salary while research institutes and colleges struggle for funds is not capitalism. It is worse than the socialism that most people blame for lack of economic progress in the last seven decades.

As clarified by Finance Minister it will be implemented only in April next year. For me it looks like a big carrot and indirectly asking people to vote for them. If not voted than they do not have anything to deliver. Idea is big and beneficial, but needs lots of systems in place. We have not ensured that our country is hunger free yet, Public services is pathetic. Had they announced it in last budget and shown some groundwork this year it would have been good. I seriously feel this budget might cost NDA too much.

[Ashwin Morey]

Originally Posted by GTO

I support the increase in custom duties as I'm a firm believer in the "if you want to sell it here, build it here" philosophy. Car manufacturers source from their regional / global part hubs or sister companies, even though there are ample volumes to justify local production. E.g. in a car like the Creta which sells up to a massive 10,000 units / month, what is the need to have even a single imported part?

On the contrary, I believe that if you reduce all such taxes to a bare minimum, that will overnight triple the sales of such vehicles which in turn would be enough motivation for a manufacturer to start manufacturing here. As a manufacturer why would I be motivated to start a factory unless i am not assured of at least a 100,000 cars being sold here per year!

If they reduce or remove all duties I think every Ciaz/Elantra and the likes of it would be replaced by a C-Class/3-Series/A4 OR every City/Verna would be replaced by CLA/A3 OR every Creta/Brezza replaced by GLA/X1/Q3!

Maybe a caveat can be introduced that you can avail zero duties provided within 3( or 5 ) years you start local production. If you fail to meet then a compounded duty would be levied for the previous 3 (or 5) duty free years you have enjoyed.

I completely agree with your point though that if Creta is selling more than 100,000 cars a year then Hyundai has no business to have any imported parts in it.

DISCLAIMER: I am neither an Auto expert nor a financial expert so you all will excuse me if the suggestions look dumb-witted

[PetrolRider]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Those in the salaried sector have to pay the price they do on this count - it is the price to pay for wanting job security by working for someone else as just an employee. Get some initiative, start a business, and reap all the consequent benefits for the risks taken. And enjoy hearing the salaried people that cannot do this, moan about their taxes deducted at source.

With due respect sir, I think this is an unwanted rant targeting a particular breed of people known for their active participation in taxation. I have read all your arguments, it might be true for some, but not for all.


People don’t join private organization for job stability or shun private business for that; they do it, because unfortunately, they have no other option to fend themselves or their family. If they need job security, they would run after a Govt job and given that they have enough capital, they would even start a business happily.


Yes, I know, salaried moan about their pathetic situation, because they were just treated as punching bags by the Govt and the entire community who are not salaried.


My apologies, if I sounded harsh; may be have taken beating of the system quiet many times. All I am saying is, let’s not mock the only breed of people who pays tax to keep the system running. Let’s keep the discussion healthy.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

And maybe these high salaries will get more educated Indians to devote their lives to public service? Faint hopes?

Do you really think it is the salary that restricts educated people away from public services? I had once a colleague who with similar minded people opened an orphanage school to help kids begging on road. Got himself with several kidnapping charges against him by the beggar’s mafia, got arrested for some days and beaten black and blue by both police and the mafias and done with public service for once and all.

[Sawyer]

I have spent many years as a salaryman; I paid my taxes in full, but I don't beat my chest in pride that I did so, because TDS was the only reason for this. I am not any more honest or less honest than the typical Indian businessman. I do not believe for a moment that I was part of a group that was the only one that paid taxes. Let us not forget corporates that pay income taxes and businessmen that also pay indirect taxes like excise, sales tax and VAT with the rest of us.

All of us pay taxes only when there is no way out of it.

Let us also accept that the salaried moan not because they pay more taxes than legally due, but because they haven't the option that others have to not do so.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by A M

Its frustrating that a car owner has to pay road tax while registering the vehicle, road cess while filling it up and then toll tax while using it.

On top of that, hefty repair bills and early failure of components, thanks to our silky smooth roads!

Having the chance to travel, helped me to understand that good roads and infrastructure and the most basic necessity to make our lives easier, other things can follow that. Less chaos is always good.

[sukhoi30]

In my opinion, this budget was a huge let down by the govt for the middle class and the salaried person. The 40k standard deduction is a joke as it is replacing medical and conveyance. Only ppl below 5lac sal stands to gain something and that's just a pittance.
When the PM announced note and GST , I was happy in a way because I realised now all those escaping the tax net are now bound to pay tax.
At least I could say that I stand among equals in terms of paying tax.
We see and read so many articles about how the overall tax earning had increased with introduction of GST. If that was the case then there should have been further relief for the salaried class.
Neither is there a change on the slab, nor any change in the tax saving investment instrument.
It is really ridiculous to say the least.
And to further rub it in, MPs are getting some decent hikes that is totally not related to their performance.
I suddenly have lost interest in this govt. Problem is .. there is no credible alternative.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

I suddenly have lost interest in this govt.

That you now join the millions of educated Indians that have, is our national tragedy. The politicians are quite happy to see this; it creates the space for them to pursue their selfish agendas with one less voice to worry about.

Every budget underlines the merits of the banking transaction tax, that will completely do away with all this nonsense and much of the parasitic weeds that are choking our economy like hyacinth does to rivers that go stagnant. The only downside with that tax is that it can be regressive, but that problem can be fixed in many ways and via workarounds that include crediting direct subsidies into the bank accounts of the poor.

It will render millions of parasitic Indians jobless and also render those that have to deal with these parasites - and that includes CAs and tax lawyers - jobless. But after a short adjustment period it can very easily double the GDP growth and perhaps even treble it. Because in a way that cannot even be fully foreseen, it will release the energy and time of those millions of Indians that do work that adds genuine value to others, by they not having to deal with these parasites and their imposed drag.

But because it will cause this extinction of parasites is exactly why there is and will be massive resistance against it with politicians of all parties and bureaucrats leading the charge. And similar resistance from CAs. Anyone that pushes this one through without muddying and diluting it, or making it just an additional tax and not the complete replacement to ALL taxes it is meant to be, will be a true sevak of Bharat. And a father of the country that can rightfully take his place next to Gandhi. Or even ahead of him I would be willing to say, for having delivered the nation out of the hands of poverty which has ruled us for many more years than what the British did.

All that said, it will never happen. Those that want it are not interested in government, while those in government in the way it is practiced here and in almost every country in the world will not allow it to come about - it will mean that 90% of the activity of governing the country will disappear and this will therefore be an existential crisis to the ruling classes.

But it is worth putting it forth as a solution that exists to many of our ills, starting with corruption. It is for us to decide if there is a collective will to deploy it. And to suffer the consequences that are and will be completely deserved and earned if we do not wish to do so.

PS: Given the powers of States V Centre for imposing taxes as defined in the Constitution, this one will need a major change to the Constitution. This change is one that I have no trouble supporting. Unfortunately, this is also a very useful roadblock in the hands of our politicians to stop this "nonsense".

[2000rpm]

I honestly feel that we should keep political discussions off this forum. If the budget is being discussed, we should discuss the Automotive part only. I have seen unnecessary discussions spoiling the forum harmony (on other forums).

[srishiva]

I am constructing a house and in addition to paying 30% income tax, I am paying 18/28 % GST on raw materials :(

Shouldn't the govt bring a scheme of providing pension (or some form of social security) based on the amount of the tax you have paid in your lifetime ? At least for salaried period ?

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

I honestly feel that we should keep political discussions off this forum. If the budget is being discussed, we should discuss the Automotive part only. I have seen unnecessary discussions spoiling the forum harmony (on other forums).

I invite a moderator comment on this: it would mean that every thread on this forum should be restricted to only automotive aspects of the subject of that thread.

If that is a forum rule, I will quit TBHP because life to me is more than just automobiles.