[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Saw a video yesterday.

- 70% of crop on this planet is grown for animals for human consumption
- 30% of fresh water is used for these animals
- Yet only 30% of calories are provided by animal consumption

Googled to cross-verify and sure enough, it is all true. The animal food industry is one of the largest polluters in the world and contributes significantly to carbon emissions.
In fact, food industry contributes more emissions than transport.
Transport=16.2% | Food industry=18.4% Link

Never felt so guilty on being a non-vegetarian.

This is utter garbage, let them do a breakdown of nutritional value of meat. The most destructive farming is grain, single crop, heavy water usage, dead soil, literally just feed for animals at best, that's what is being used for. The video is the kind made by people who think they have save the planet by eating soy and HFCS, natural selection will sort that out.

I feel no guilt for being a non vegetarian, neither should you, those animals are raised for meat, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Or one Ambani, Adani, Ratan Tata, Sharukh Khan, Akshay Kumar, Jack Ma, anyone from BTS, anyone from the Gulf royal families, those Nigerian princes who email you asking for money

None of the people you mentioned claimed to do anything for climate. Gates and Leo position themselves as climate saviours and each have carbon footprints the size of mid-size cities. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Energy wastages in the Gulf would be eye-watering even by Western standards while Chinese state-owned companies emit as much CO2 as entire countries like Pakistan.

Again, on a per capita level, you are right. However, as a block, the GCC is negligible in terms of primary emissions. One of the previous posts shows that they don't fit in the top 5, and their entire population (expats included) is about BOM + DEL.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

I don't think blaming 'old white men' is really going to help or is even true unless you live in the 1980s - the world is more diverse that that.

Sure thing. 200 years of pumping anything into the atmosphere, obfuscating things like the $100 bn loan to developing nations for climate - these are all Afro-Asian doings.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Never felt so guilty on being a non-vegetarian.

All this is related to western cattle rearing. Most Indians who identify as 'meat-eating' eat chicken a few times a week. All red meat in India - mutton, beef, buffalo - is not farmed using industrial methods, but is done in a similar manner to that hundreds of years ago. Only chicken in India is 'farmed', and the CO2 emissions from poultry farming are quite low. So relax.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

None of the people you mentioned claimed to do anything for climate. Gates and Leo position themselves as climate saviours and each have carbon footprints the size of mid-size cities. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.

Agree. However, my comments were just pointed at the fact that these aren’t just the old white men who are contributing to this crisis right now.

Again, on a per capita level, you are right. However, as a block, the GCC is negligible in terms of primary emissions. One of the previous posts shows that they don't fit in the top 5, and their entire population (expats included) is about BOM + DEL.

Absolutes are absolutes, percentages are percentages. As per this argument, you could argue that India and China as a block contribute a lot to global emissions - effectively playing right into the hands of the Western (mostly American) right who use this argument.

Sure thing. 200 years of pumping anything into the atmosphere, obfuscating things like the $100 bn loan to developing nations for climate - these are all Afro-Asian doings.

The West should do more in terms of climate funding, given their historical role - no two-ways about that.

All this is related to western cattle rearing. Most Indians who identify as 'meat-eating' eat chicken a few times a week. All red meat in India - mutton, beef, buffalo - is not farmed using industrial methods, but is done in a similar manner to that hundreds of years ago. Only chicken in India is 'farmed', and the CO2 emissions from poultry farming are quite low. So relax.

+1

Also, while a lot of the emissions is due to methane from cattle, that will still be the case if you grow them for milk as in India (since Indian vegetarianism includes diary), so it wouldn’t really cut any emissions.

[Hayek]

Frankly don’t think any of us on Team BHP has the right to claim we are not responsible for global warming just because we live in a dirt poor country with 1.3 bn people who are barely surviving. (The other 100 mm are doing ok).

Everyone of us belongs to the Top 5% of the Indian population - we have only 7.5 cars per 100 households in India.

If you want to think about carbon emissions, start by assessing your own carbon footprint. I just did that:



This is my family’s carbon footprint - the 5 of us (my wife, my in laws, my son and I) have a combined footprint of 75 tonnes a year - and that is despite my international flying having dropped dramatically post Covid. (I had just 1 international business trip in the last 12 months vs 10 trips in 2019). Actually I am unfairly benefiting from the small footprint of my in-laws, wife and child - you can argue they take their fair share of our house emissions, but I account for 80% of the flights, 40% of the car and a large share of the secondary emissions due to much higher eating out and stays in hotels.

So even leaving the 45 odd tonnes I emit aside, the rest of the family emits 7.5 tonnes a head, which is more than the average for the EU. The fact that we are vegetarians reduces our emissions by less than 0.5 tonnes per year - less than what we would save if I cancelled a one way business class trip to Delhi.

[v1p3r]

Interesting. I did the same calculation, but clearly I just don't seem to be spending enough money. The bulk of my footprint comes from my international flying, which itself isn't as much anymore.



I can tell you with some degree of confidence that using this to figure out how your actions impact the world is the same as using an online IQ test to hire managers in corporations. These are feel-good online tools to make you believe you're doing something - the whole purpose of this is to divert attention from policy changes and thrust the onus on individuals. Much like other large scale social impact decisions, this is not something individuals can do much about.

Also, don't get me started on the inaccuracies of the data itself, from emissions factors to databases. 50% difference wouldn't be uncommon. I could go into reams about how the data is so bad, it's like fighting tanks with potato guns.

[V.Narayan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...ys/ar-AA1dOvE8

https://m.timesofindia.com/etimes/tr.../101751499.cms



Activists glue their hands to airport runways with concrete and industrial glue. Now they are stuck - literally. The hands may need amputation to free them. As the originator of this thread I am all for climate change action to save our planet for our children and grandchildren. But this is nuttiness to a different level all together. They could have done better by having each activist plant 20 trees. PETA activists have often used bizarre tactics to the amusement of many. Not sure how became vegetarian due to PETA. Even as a vegetarian (or eggetarian to be correct) I find PETA nonsensical.

Climate change action will come mainly through economic pressure, market push of consumer preferences and legislation pressure. With oil baron funded legislators in USA causing it to stay away and with India and China dependent on coal without access to nuclear power in any real mass way things will change only very slowly no matter how many amputated palms are left behind on runways.

And pollution is not just caused by aircraft & airlines. The root cause lies with us the consumer who fly, drive, consume, shop too much on Amazon, throw away food, consume plastic bags etc.

[Sree]

https://twitter.com/rahmstorf/status..._yAUr67gmn114g


A great thread about the Atlantic overturning circulation which has been making waves this week thanks to the article on nature.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/25/c...e=articleShare

The monsoons will definitely get affected. So, it is important to us as well.

[ninjatalli]

The world is seeing a lot of floods and wildfires that have been scaled up due to climate change impact leading to extreme weather. The most recent one in Libya is an horrifying example when the same is added to a list of other factors

- weak and crumbling infrastructure (dams and roads in this case)
- topography that becomes a multiplier for the impact (mountains on one end and the city on the slope)
- political strife (the area is ruled by rebels) that leads to inefficient management and unavailability of support/aid setup

10s of thousands are feared to be dead in the flooding with search efforts still underway. The below article provides a good view of the reasons why this happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...looding-cause/

I see similar topography on both eastern and western coastlines of India and I wonder if this could potentially happen in the near future with similar devastating impact.

[Sree]

An excellent new book .
Climate change threatens the well being of future generations, making it morally imperative for us to take action .

[PGA]

I was just wondering that we have been uncharacteristically quiet about COP28 in general in the national news media and on TBHP, even though its agreement impacts us petrol heads directly, that too not too far in future.

The world as of now, big, small, developed and developing countries have all agreed to transition from fossil fuels completely by 2050. Its not about complete banning but about net zero emissions from fossil fuels and its not about transportation alone but about plastic, fertilizers, polyester and anything to do with crude, natural gas and coal.

If the world intends walking the talk, then scaling back on growth in these commodities is almost certain. That means no new mines, no more scouting for oil fields and gas reserves.

How will the economies do such quick changeover is a little hard to fathom. I was recently chatting with a senior polution control officer of the state and he mentioned that the waste of all kinds is the new gold. He said the companies from across the spectrum are scouring and researching about the utility of various types of waste generated. Huge investment taking place in my area towards bio CNG and bio diesel and ethanol makes some sense now.

[PGA]

https://twitter.com/navdeepdahiya55/...HcxWcyJ_A&s=19

An interesting scenario, while the mountains next door are having amongst the warmest winters this season, plains of Punjab and Haryana witnessing prolonged extreme cold dry spell.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by PGA

How will the economies do such quick changeover is a little hard to fathom. I was recently chatting with a senior polution control officer of the state and he mentioned that the waste of all kinds is the new gold. He said the companies from across the spectrum are scouring and researching about the utility of various types of waste generated. Huge investment taking place in my area towards bio CNG and bio diesel and ethanol makes some sense now.

Yes, that's exactly where we are headed. Already, especially in the field of EVs, there is expected to be a high degree of recycling of rare earth metals - not only due to environmental considerations but also due to the fact that China actually controls a lot of these rare earth metals - so this is part of the de-risking process as well.

We might not realize it but the global supply chain is undergoing a huge transformation to adapt to an increasingly turbulent world.

Originally Posted by PGA

https://twitter.com/navdeepdahiya55/...HcxWcyJ_A&s=19

An interesting scenario, while the mountains next door are having amongst the warmest winters this season, plains of Punjab and Haryana witnessing prolonged extreme cold dry spell.

This winter has been quite mild even in the Gulf. The main reason is because this is an El Niño year - exacerbated by Climate Change.

[whitewing]

Came across an interesting Methane emission data published by a satellite monitoring company Kayrros - The *stan republics, China, USA, India, Russia are the main contributors.
Strangely, Karachi and Dacca seem to be emitting large volumes on a near constant basis.
In India, the NCR region and a patch in Nagaland/Arunachalpradesh seem to be the major emitters.
https://methanewatch.kayrros.com/map


Imporance of controlling Methane in the context global warming

• Methane (CH4), the primary component of natural gas, is responsible for approximately a third of the warming we are experiencing today. (IPCC)
• Methane is a powerful and short-lived greenhouse gas, with a lifetime of about a decade and Global Warming Potential about 80 times greater than that of carbon dioxide (CO2) during the 20 years after it is released into the atmosphere. (IPCC)

https://www.unep.org/explore-topics/...-about-methane

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by whitewing

Came across an interesting Methane emission data published by a satellite monitoring company Kayrros - The *stan republics, China, USA, India, Russia are the main contributors.
Strangely, Karachi and Dacca seem to be emitting large volumes on a near constant basis.
In India, the NCR region and a patch in Nagaland/Arunachalpradesh seem to be the major emitters.

Agriculture & livestock contribute to by far the most methane emissions. Other major contributors include methane gas release when drilling for fossil fuels & natural gas leaks during transmission. Landfills of organic waste are also a big contributor.

Issues like landfills can be solved but agriculture & livestock are no-go areas because they directly affect food security, especially since rice and beef (which contribute the most) are the cheapest & most easily available sources of carbohydrates & protein respectively in many parts of the world.

[V.Narayan]

World's first year-long breach of key 1.5 degree C warming limit

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68110310

For the first time, global warming has exceeded 1.5 degree C across an entire year, according to the EU's climate service. The reference point here is the average global temperature in the pre-industrial era of year1800 and earlier.

At the current rate of emissions, the Paris goal of limiting warming to 1.5C as a long-term average - rather than a single year - could be crossed within the next decade.

This would be a hugely symbolic milestone, but researchers say it wouldn't mark a climate cliff edge. However every tenth of a degree of warming causes more harm than the last one.

Global average air temperatures began exceeding 1.5C of warming on an almost daily basis in the second half of 2023, when El Nino began kicking in, and this has continued into 2024. An end to El Nino conditions is expected in a few months, which could allow global temperatures to temporarily stabilize, and then fall slightly, probably back below the 1.5 degree C threshold.