[Samurai]

This has started a new trend...

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Samurai

While IT folks can work from home, sales people can't. No matter how much IT folks puff themselves up, sales is the real life blood of any business. You can't meet new people and make deals if decision makers sit at home. Yes, even the customers are suffering because they are not meeting vendors/partners face-to-face.

I am one and I agree.

However, facts say otherwise- RFP's haven't reduced during Covid. multi-million Dollar deals are being closed with the same regularity even when being remote. I personally have addressed nearly $ 150 Mn in RFP's in the past 2 years while working remotely. Heck, my Business suits have gone into long term storage. A member of our senior mgmt. had a very good reply to the query ''when we all start traveling again like before''. He said ''the day the Industry starts to say 'I Lost a deal because I was not in front of customer' is the day we will all start hitting the road''. This was a year ago. Cut to today - Slowly but surely we are all getting back on the road- RFP or not. We just need to see customers F2F. Networking gives us an Adrenaline boost.

I am back on travel again. I may never get back to 4 day/wk travel jaunt that I used to be on though. Thanks to this travel I have met a few bhpians too in all sorts of places - met @swe.desi in Gothenburg 2 days ago.

In Summary- WFH is not a long term solution for Sales folk. Period.

[V.Narayan]

Because Team BHP understandably populated by members from (a) the upper classes (b) young and upwardly mobile and (c) from the IT - BPO sector there is a presumption that WFH is more wide spread than it really is. India's workforce is roughly 500 million of which roughly 29 to 30 million are in the organized sector of which 4.5 to 5.0 million are in the IT-BPO sector. These figures are directionally correct. Even in the organized sector for a large part of those outside IT say 24 million or so it is WFO or WFF i.e. Work From Facility (Factory, Hotel, Hospital, Airport or other place of operations). My field in medical care is all 100% WFF. My previous business in aviation is also WFF.

If you are someone who can threaten to quit if pushed to WFO then count yourself as a part of the lucky few. Some on this thread think WFH is about the employee. Everything in a business starts with the customer and ends with the shareholder. WFH happened because a customer needed the service even in the pandemic and was willing to pay for it and compromise with the extra difficulty and IT security risk WFH entailed. If the customers across the globe, theoretically, had said, "sorry I am not game for this", then WFH would have quickly become, for some, NWNW (No Work from No Where).

It has been possible so far, within limitations for companies to continue to operate with WFH only because most of it is running on business relationships established in the past and running smoothly (or not so smoothly) on strength of old trust and bridges. Also clients, financiers, Government accepted virtual meetings as the norm due to the extraordinary global conditions. From where I sit I don't see this status quo of cruising on past foundations continuing indefinitely. While WFH in some form and within some reasonable limits has come to stay most organizations will find it difficult to make it the all encompassing practice.

[raksrules]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Because Team BHP <snip>

While I agree with what you said, as someone working in Indian IT Service company, I have seen that employees tend to spend more time working in this WFH scenario and most don't mind as they can compensate the longer working by doing something else in middle of day.

Say, in my case, sometimes I have a meeting at 10:30 AM and also at 8:30 PM. Now with WFH, I can do this, but with WFO, as I travel in office bus, I have to work as per office bus timing and usually at this time. So basically, the way work is structured at least for me, it will need to change. In fact I have no intention to take a car to office (don't have one anyways right now) as that means I will stay more than required in office and moreover, I have no energy to pay attention of road after a day's work.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by raksrules

While I agree with what you said, as someone working in Indian IT Service company, I have seen that employees tend to spend more time working in this WFH scenario and most don't mind as they can compensate the longer working by doing something else in middle of day.

Say, in my case, sometimes I have a meeting at 10:30 AM and also at 8:30 PM. Now with WFH, I can do this, but with WFO, as I travel in office bus, I have to work as per office bus timing and usually at this time. So basically, the way work is structured at least for me, it will need to change. In fact I have no intention to take a car to office (don't have one anyways right now) as that means I will stay more than required in office and moreover, I have no energy to pay attention of road after a day's work.

There will never be one rule or practice that fits all in any industry or even any sphere of human endeavour. Someone in your position will find an employer who is comfortable with WFH. Employers who are not will find employees who prefer WFO.

[CliffHanger]

The productivity of most of the IT employees working from home has been quite high compared to WFO.

A majority of the millennial engineers are smart and reliable. Even complex projects have been executed with all the employees working from home.

The only problem is attrition - you can attend dozens of interviews everyday sitting at home. But that's a given, companies earned in dollars but formed a cartel and kept salaries at rock bottom for more than a decade.

Going back to full WFO from WFH, will be like going back to Nokia mobile from smartphones. I don't think it is going to happen unless the companies form a cartel again with government's aid.

But one thing for sure, the productivity from WFH cannot be matched from WFO.

If I run an IT company, I will leave the decision to the engineer on where he wants to work. Have strong management process and your work will get done.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

While WFH in some form and within some reasonable limits has come to stay most organizations will find it difficult to make it the all encompassing practice.

It depends which side of the coin one sees. From a 100% WFO pre covid to 100% WFH during Covid, the new normal is 60% WFO for the org I work for. There is a new telecommuter policy being formulated with some renumeration adjustments. So pick the color you want to see.

The other variable is the emergence of new technology set and lean organization setup (primarily start ups) which has created a supply demand issue. Attrition levels are high at the ground level (less than 10 years experience) and recruiters are facing some heat. Hire losses are rampant. So if someone has the necessary skill level, he/she can opt for Work from Anywhere today. There is an increase in the order book for businesses wanting to add the digital vertical. Conclusively speaking, we are in midst of a Sector which is increasing in size and shortage of skilled workforce.

My limited understanding is that we are at an inflection point. The org culture as well as the inherent regional work culture will be the key to see which direction we end up with. There is no reason for us to not have a bigger telecommuter workforce. The template has been set and if driven right with optimization, this arrangement works. Being both manager and reportee, I can say one thing for sure-Things have changed for good.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

India's workforce is roughly 500 million of which roughly 29 to 30 million...My field in medical care is all 100% WFF. My previous business in aviation is also WFF.

I think that is a given sir. In the overall labor context of the country, this thread has a very narrow definition/application, only about IT jobs that can be effectively done remote. I don't think anyone realistically expects medical or aviation professionals to work remote.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If you are someone who can threaten to quit if pushed to WFO then count yourself as a part of the lucky few. Some on this thread think WFH is about the employee.

Not just about the employee, also about competitive advantage. Several smaller firms have realized that this is one point they can advertise to get people away from the bigger, brand-name firms. For my job function I've seen many more remote jobs being advertised on Linkedin these days, mainly by smaller firms. Ultimately it's about firms doing what works for them. Similarly, as employees, I see nothing wrong with doing what works for us, especially if the job can be done as effectively.


But agree with your overall point about WFH not becoming as widespread as many predicted at the beginning of the pandemic. At the same time it's good that the model was at least tested for two years (unfortunate that it took a pandemic for that to happen!) For some companies and employees, it's worked out quite well.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

The productivity of most of the IT employees working from home has been quite high compared to WFO.

Agree - for majority of the people in major metro cities, the lack of infrastructure was leading to unhealthy/unrealistic commute times which was not benefiting anybody. This is one of the key drivers for productivity.

Originally Posted by headbanger

It depends which side of the coin one sees. From a 100% WFO pre covid to 100% WFH during Covid, the new normal is 60% WFO for the org I work for. There is a new telecommuter policy being formulated with some renumeration adjustments. So pick the color you want to see.

In my Org (IT Company) they are not making it pick and choose to begin with. People in specific Critical Customer Accounts would need to return to office mandatorily from Aug 2022 possibly. But for the rest of the population they are tagging based on job function and multiple models are being worked out. So based on a particular plan one gets mapped to the Work from Office maybe alternate days, or 1 day per week and so on.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

There will never be one rule or practice that fits all in any industry or even any sphere of human endeavour.

This is true, even within a single industry based on the role - the needs would vary. For IT, I think some kind of Hybrid model would be the best as a go forward so it does not become 100% Work From Home but rather a balance depending on the specific role...

Trying to get back every single IT worker uniformly across the board back to Work from Office is a huge wastage given what we have learnt in the last 2 years.

[naveen.raju]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

If I run an IT company, I will leave the decision to the engineer on where he wants to work. Have strong management process and your work will get done.

That's exactly what we are doing. Our office is open to all our employees in case they wish to WFO (Work from office). I go 2-3 times a week, then take a break and WFH (Work from home) for 1-2 weeks. But we do gather in office for any special occasions - that's when we get to see some new faces.

We do prefer the technical guys to WFH since their productivity is high, travel time cut down and most guys are available anytime we call.

But most companies here might resume regular office shift in couple of months. Can see the increase in crowd here.

[Latheesh]

Our office reopens from May-2022 onwards. Went to office couple of days back (in India) after the gap of 3 years. Looks like everything will be back to 'normal' within few months. Very excited to participate in ethnic day, office celebrations, team building activities, team outing, pot luck.. What not.

[Vijin]

My company is also voluntarily accepting WFO and intends to go hybrid (2 days per week) beginning next month. Managers and team leaders will face increased pressure to entice young people to return to work city and get them back into the groove.
I started going to the office every now and then between the second and third waves of corona and am looking forward to WFO because it will help me set a clear demarcation as to when I log off. We've been in a situation where the line between work and home has become increasingly blurred in recent years, as has been the case for many others here.
However, I agree that this is a luxury option for a privileged subset of the workforce.

[SR-71]

Companies in Bangalore have proposed a hybrid mode partly driven by compulsions of the tech park regulations they are situated in and the tax breaks that come with it. There is a GO stipulating minimum requirement for people to come into office for the firm to enjoy the tax breaks. It makes sense. The tax exemption drives encourages MNCs to shift work to India and it aids the government because it acts as a secondary job booster (security, maintenance, transportation, cafeteria etc). So there is no incentive for the government to give these tax breaks if the secondary job market is impacted.

[dsr001]

A new angle in WFO is about real estate space. My company had started 1 day WFH per week even before Corona in Jan 2020. In the US office, same was being followed since 2019.

I moved to a new company some time back. Here they have expanded a lot. But there's not enough space for all. Hence WFO is being given as voluntary option, but one would have to book one's space basis availability.

Travel time and constraints do pose a major challenge to people working with foreign teams.

Another point is, there is a lot of time wastage in the open offices of today. At times, I don't have the time to speak with people but might have to interact just to look social. Some people resort to using headphones to signal thatthey're not open for conversation.

[doomketu]

Originally Posted by raksrules

While I agree with what you said, as someone working in Indian IT Service company, I have seen that employees tend to spend more time working in this WFH scenario and most don't mind as they can compensate the longer working by doing something else in middle of day.

Say, in my case, sometimes I have a meeting at 10:30 AM and also at 8:30 PM. Now with WFH, I can do this, but with WFO, as I travel in office bus, I have to work as per office bus timing and usually at this time. So basically, the way work is structured at least for me, it will need to change. In fact I have no intention to take a car to office (don't have one anyways right now) as that means I will stay more than required in office and moreover, I have no energy to pay attention of road after a day's work.

Exactly. During pandemic I moved to a more advisory role. Having meetings spread across the day I learnt to manage my time. I have the confidence to start my day at 4 and end at 2am which is bau and still take an odd escalation call or a meeting regarding hiring at 11am without much of a challenge (as long as boundaries are respected of course)

I know is IT folks are a Priviledge slot , so my pov might come off as a bit snobbish. In the end hybrid with rotation is what can help us all.

For the majority , as detailed in an earlier reply ,WFF is the way to go.