[VVN]

I completely disagree with the notion that WFH is a privilege. Sorry but a huge NO. It should become a right. Why should individuals spend 40 hours a week in cubicles and another 15 hours a week traveling? Family time is of utmost importance. The cubicle culture is stuck in the 90s and needs to evolve. Mental health should be given priority over random F2F meetings that serve no purpose. I am all for a hybrid work environment (currently in one) which allows you to travel to office 2-3 days a week. Even this shouldn't be mandated and employees should be able to choose when to work from office. At the end of the day, productivity is all that matters and Covid taught us that WFH is possible in each and every department. I am saying this as a someone who has seen how the motivation levels among my subordinates and peer group increased when the 5 day work week was shunned by my org. Its high time that employees realise the power they have and demand a lot more personal time as a part of their CTC or ask to be compensated for the nonsensical travel times over and above the 40 hours that they spend in cubicles. As far as I have seen and read and experienced, mid managers are the ones who are pushing for RTO as it makes their role redundant.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by VVN

I completely disagree with the notion that WFH is a privilege.

While I'm a big proponent of remote work, I think considering it a 'right' will not really work out well. Nor will my having that attitude work out very well for me in the workplace.

I think it's more realistic to look for an opportunity that gives me that option, rather than expect my organization to change their policies. In a populous country like ours, there's always someone who will take the job I leave. The bigger companies seem to be persisting with their in-office model, so obviously it works for them and they've accounted for the few employees who might want to leave. And of course it's something smaller companies can use as a competitive advantage to pull people away from bigger, less-flexible companies.

[Kurrant]

Originally Posted by whencut86

Here they are making us waste resources and cause pollution simply to register a swipe in office and track this

I am not from the IT industry, so just curious that they only track the swipe when you work from office and not the time you enter and leave, or probably the total time spent at work?
If its just tracking the swipe, like marking a 'yes' in the attendance register, I believe the return to office mandate has less to do with business logic or maintain discipline, but more like unleashing the whip because you have the power to do so.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by VVN

I completely disagree with the notion that WFH is a privilege. Sorry but a huge NO. It should become a right.

Something becomes a right when law mandates it. I know it because I deal with various government compliance requirements as part of job.

What you are demanding, if it ever becomes a law, it will come under the category of labour law. Like the EPF or ESI laws, which come into effect when the company size exceeds a certain number of employees.

Let's say WFH becomes a right under the law. Then everyone who holds a job can demand it. Not just IT workers. WFH is something only a small fraction of the work force can avail. You really can't make it a right.

[Revvatron]

Originally Posted by Gansan

There is also a push factor from the governments which may be gently twisting the arms of those companies to call off WFH.

I agree with this. In my company's case, they were ok with complete wfh. But since it is based in SEZ, due to sez rules they need to show some occupancy. I am not sure about the rules here but this is what I heard from our senior managers. They can't go complete WFO due lack of space. So it is just two days per week that too not mandatory. Personally I like to go office all 5 days, so it is frustrating to sit in one place for 2 days and then for rest of 3 days have to search for space.

[maximus_fiat]

WFO triggers a micro economy in itself. Right from the autos / bus to the small eatery stalls, chai tapris, office canteens, PG accommodations, rental income to employing local populace for housekeeping activities. There will always be a push to kick start WFO considering the economic activities it triggers.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Similarly, owning a car is a privilege for the majority of the country. Yet, do we add that disclaimer on each car review thread on the forum?

Not a correct comparison! The people under discussion all have cars (jobs). But wfh is like allowing only a particular brand or two to take a special lane!

[girimajiananth]

Originally Posted by Kurrant

I am not from the IT industry, so just curious that they only track the swipe when you work from office and not the time you enter and leave, or probably the total time spent at work?
If its just tracking the swipe, like marking a 'yes' in the attendance register, I believe the return to office mandate has less to do with business logic or maintain discipline, but more like unleashing the whip because you have the power to do so.

Well some companies go a step further. They have tools installed on your laptops, computers that track all your activities right from the time you login to log out. Time spent on each application,your idle time ( sitting in front of computer and doing nothing), how many times you lock and unlock your system, what websites you visit and how much time you spend on them can be easily tracked and based on this your "productivity" is tracked .

This data can also be compared to your floor swipe in and out data to even calculate how much time you spent in cafeteria , restroom or playing table tennis at the office basement

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Kurrant

I am not from the IT industry, so just curious that they only track the swipe when you work from office and not the time you enter and leave, or probably the total time spent at work?
If its just tracking the swipe, like marking a 'yes' in the attendance register, I believe the return to office mandate has less to do with business logic or maintain discipline, but more like unleashing the whip because you have the power to do so.

In the current day and age, everything is tracked. How long you were logged in your machine, idle time, most used app, meeting duration, call activity, etc., which help anyone viewing such reports to understand productivity.

[Jaguar]

Pre-covid, we never had a formal WFH policy and as long as the work was getting done and the manager was alright, nobody bothered. Many employees, especially in the foreign offices used to WFH regularly. But now, with the hybrid work policy, everyone is forced to WFO for at least 3 days a week. Getting an exception is an elaborate process requiring approvals from HR and top management. So effectively, this RTO hybrid model has reduced the flexibility that we used to enjoy

Originally Posted by Gansan

Huge IT parks and office spaces have been created by the all powerful real estate people/lobby. Really,really powerful people including politicians have invested huge money in those properties. They won't sit and watch those investments go up in smoke.

And at least in Bangalore, more and more tech parks are coming up even now. So, either they know something we don't or they have confidence in their power to force the people back to offices.

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

In the current day and age, everything is tracked. How long you were logged in your machine, idle time, most used app, meeting duration, call activity, etc., which help anyone viewing such reports to understand productivity.

Anything and everything can be tracked but nobody in the right mind would bother about breaks or idle time in a software development environment. Productivity cannot be measured by the number of lines of code.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Anything and everything can be tracked but nobody in the right mind would bother about breaks or idle time in a software development environment. Productivity cannot be measured by the number of lines of code.

Idle time = sitting in front of workstation, but watching reels/shorts on phone, reading a book, etc.

Physically present but mentally absent. Sounds like non-productive time to me, good to be tracked, but not to be scrutinized absolutely in isolation.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

In the current day and age, everything is tracked. How long you were logged in your machine, idle time, most used app, meeting duration, call activity, etc., which help anyone viewing such reports to understand productivity.

Such reports can be entirely misused in the hands of those who don't understand creative process involved in software development.

I do my best thinking when I am away from the PC, when there is no distraction. Some of my best ideas came while I was driving. How does one measure that time?

I recall an incident that happened 32 years ago when I was a junior programmer. I had taken on a challenging assignment and had run a major design quagmire. Staring at the monochrome text screen (this was before MS-Windows became standard), didn't help. So I went to the park opposite the office building and sat there thinking, dry running all the scenarios in my head. The office boy who saw me sitting there thought I was slacking off, and he came over and made a sly remark. I chased him off with a harsh word. He went and complained to my boss, who was the CEO. Little later the boss came over and asked what's happening. I told him about the design problem I was thinking about. He nodded his head in sympathy and left me alone. Since he was a hardcore programmer himself, he instantly understood I was not slacking off despite gazing at the trees and flowers. Such incidences happened many times over years, but nothing as dramatic. No one ever asked why I was staring at walls or rains away from the PC. {edit: Wife always asks}

Can a HR person or any non-programmer looking at the productivity reports understand this? I doubt it.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Can a HR person or any non-programmer looking at the productivity reports understand this? I doubt it.

Possibly not, and can totally relate with rest of your post.

[Kapany]

Reading all these posts, it seems like a generational thing. Older folks oppose WFH, younger people support it. I guess times are changing.

[girimajiananth]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Anything and everything can be tracked but nobody in the right mind would bother about breaks or idle time in a software development environment. Productivity cannot be measured by the number of lines of code.

You are right, productivity can't be measured truly by a piece of code. I worked for 2 such companies that sold these products. Their idea was entirely different, but at the end of the day these tools end up in the hands of a wrong person who micromanages the entire team.

This hybrid mode is becoming more painful for a few of us when we are traveling to office during the actual shift time.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Such reports can be entirely misused in the hands of those who don't understand creative process involved in software development.

I do my best thinking when I am away from the PC, when there is no distraction. Some of my best ideas came while I was driving. How does one measure that time?


Can a HR person or any non-programmer looking at the productivity reports understand this? I doubt it.

You are 100 percent right. HR, your clients or sometimes your own management cannot understand this.

It is OK if you spend time away from desk, as long as you give 8 or 9 hours of time on your pc. This matters in service industries when you are billing clients on hourly basis.

Out of 9 hours work, 1 hour is removed for breaks (short breaks ,lunch break etc) out of remaining 8 hours 1 hour is set aside of meetings and huddles. So your ON-PC productive time is expected to be 7 hours.

I am sure a lot of us are clocking more than 7 hours easily with wfh. So I would say, wfh is more productive than working from office.

Pre covid times ,I have seen data from various IT, ITes , BPO industries on wfh and wfo data. Back then too, wfh was more productive.

Sorry for back to back posts, please merge if possible.