[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by am1m

Planning for better communication and process improvements to support remote work (which can mostly be done within each team) is more of an overhead and expense than planning and paying for daily cab routes for 500+ employees, cafeteria contracts with menus that change weekly with always complaining employees, real estate and daily building running and maintenance expenses, fancy conference rooms and bean bags, security, team lunches, antakshari/ethnic day events, office christmas celebrations, etc. etc.?

Just that the former requires planning on a case-to-case (project to project) basis.

And not many people will be willing to change for the sake of this "planning'. In a project I worked on last year, the unavailability of folks when needed became an issue and after we wasted 3 of the 7 months without making progress, I suggested that that scrum teams get into a conf call each throughout the day while doing their work so that if somebody needs a clarification, they can shout into the conf and somebody would reply. It didn't find many takers as even the guys complaining that people are unavailable didn't want to be in front of their computers even during normal work hours. Anyway the project bombed and the client is suing us now.

[chennai-indian]

I recently quit my job of 21 years and moved to another organization with a permanent WFH facility just because I did not want to spend 3 hours daily in my car commuting to the office. No change in salary but savings on fuel and time more than compensates for that. I totally understand that not all kind of work is possible remotely but wherever and whenever possible, WFH/Remote work is better. My productivity is also up compared to working from office

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I'm a wee bit confused. How is mandating people to be in office a saving on real estate, transport, catering? May be I'm missing something.
As a long time resident of Delhi NCR I am struggling to work out which IT work location in Delhi NCR is 75 Kms one way from Gaziabad?

Did you shift residence recently far off from your place of work or did you take up a new job in a location one or two towns away ? If so why would any one short of utter economic desperation do that.

Shall refrain from commenting on the logic of the mandate as my tiny brain cannot fathom one.

1. Moved from a match-box in Ghaziabad to something more spacious in Greater Noida
2. Extremity of Greater Noida to Gurgaon and back
3. Delhi office (my base location) was closed down a couple of months before they mandated the twice a week in Gurgaon office for all. The house move happened much before all this bull-crap unraveled
4. Purchased an EV in Q1 just for this ridiculous commute
5. No economic desperation yet


Oh guys by the way - I found a Pool table at my office today. Another hour down the drain. Hahaha

[RunGaDa]

I started with WFH with a new job change at the start of the pandemic in 2020. It was supposed to be a temporary measure, to be changed to working from office as soon as normalcy would return.
And I am still WFH after three years.
There was little adjustment I had to do because it was a new team. My clients are in Dubai time zone and I am always in “general shift.”

Personally I see lot of benefits of WFH. I am able to give more time to my two kids and able to talk more with my wife. My kid’s 10th class term was completely schooling from home. However, with the split exam schedule given by CBSE, I spent a lot of time working from my kid’s school. Parked under a tree, sitting in the back seat of my car. My Teams calls were in “nature’s lap.”
So much so that one of my clients actually asked me in the call -
“How do you set bird sounds as background on Teams app.?”
I told her -“No Mam, that was a real bird.”

I am also able to progress professionally as a result of WFH. My clients, on-site colleagues and bosses are okay and find me dependable.

I guess this can be selective with other people WFH as I fully know it’s not easy to balance work from home for some type of projects.

There has been a tendency to “stay safe” which made me locked inside home even after the pandemic scare has gone. I was able to counter that with conscious planning of trips for family and outdoor activities for myself.

Every pattern has pros and cons. I do miss the smell of the freshly shampooed carpet in office, the greeting and pleasantries, but I find myself lucky to give lot of time to my kids as a result of WFH.
That trade off is better than anything at this stage in life.

[Theyota]

Personally I see lot of benefits of WFH. I am able to give more time to my two kids and able to talk more with my wife.

If I read through this thread, it seems a lot of folks seem to be focused on how it is beneficial for their selves and barely a few talk about how it is beneficial for employers. Personally I think employers worldwide have agreed to continue WFH for most employees to various degrees of WFH because employees want it and not because employers see significant benefits for the company in it.

I spent a lot of time working from my kid’s school. Parked under a tree, sitting in the back seat of my car. My Teams calls were in “nature’s lap.” So much so that one of my clients actually asked me in the call -
“How do you set bird sounds as background on Teams app.?”
I told her -“No Mam, that was a real bird.”

I don't know what kind of work you do and what kind of work contract you have, so my comment is not directly towards you. But I hope you will let me use your example as lot of folks seem to think this is normal. In my personal opinion, this is abuse of WFH policy if this is during normal working hours and your work requires you to be 100% available during the normal work schedule. I am not against partial WFH for many jobs and 100% WFH for some non tech jobs. But WFH can only work if employees follow basic work discipline and ethics.

[anandmv]

Personally I see lot of benefits of WFH. I am able to give more time to my two kids and able to talk more with my wife. My kid’s 10th class term was completely schooling from home. However, with the split exam schedule given by CBSE, I spent a lot of time working from my kid’s school. Parked under a tree, sitting in the back seat of my car. My Teams calls were in “nature’s lap.”
So much so that one of my clients actually asked me in the call -
“How do you set bird sounds as background on Teams app.?”
I told her -“No Mam, that was a real bird.”

Does this give you any sort of anxiety? Reason I ask is because I have done lot of juggling of personal and work activities like this, and eventually it started wearing me off, making me quite anxious and a bit guilty that I was not doing justice to both, especially if either of the activities are quite involved, a feeling exacerbated by resumption of work from office (hybrid). It has become easier to focus on work while being at office and sort of stay away from work while at home.

[am1m]

A pic (from last year) is worth a 1000 words:


Source :
https://im.rediff.com/news/2022/sep/...pg?w=670&h=900

Pretty sure most companies exercised the work from home option that day. That is the road I used everyday for years. Even on no rain days, I've been stuck in jams at times ranging from 8am to 10pm. Very relieved I don't have to travel there anymore.

Not sure how navigating such a stretch everyday (even without water logging- agreed that the pic represents an extreme and one-off case) just to get into the office improves productivity. But to each their own I guess. I know what works for me. Happy to have this remote work alternative.

[OffRoadFun]

On a serious note, WFH home within limits is good. Also called hybrid model.

My employer allows at least 2 days of WFH without any question asked but I choose to WFO almost every day, unless there is some urgent personal work.

I am of opinion that things get done faster in office with colleagues around and distractions are minimum. And you are in sync with all the water cooler gossip! Extended WFH is not good for career in long term for sure in my opinion. My commute is 20 minutes one way and to be honest, I still love the prospect of driving Audi every morning despite the dreaded BLR traffic.

On a lighter note, I have always believed, perks shown below (available daily) should be compelling enough to show up at office every day even if above ones are not enough :-)

The breakfast


One more :


Typical lunch:




Irresistible despite a cool WFH corner I would say:



OK, I am exaggerating a bit and you know good food is my priority but still :-)

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by nettooran

As a family man, I see a lot of benefits in WFH. I am able to spend more than enough time with my kid. ....I have great flexibility in my work timing.

But that said, WFH has been a disaster for me professionally. I became very complacent with my work. I stopped being competitive.

So, would I change jobs or change location to start working from office? I do not know. Sometimes I feel I should do that ...

I have been working from home since 2014 For one year in 2016, I did join a company where I had to waste time commuting, left that work in order to save my career (different story) but since then, I've decided to not join a company where mandatory office for 5 days is absolutely necessary, unless I run out of options. I've learnt and experienced that one can go to office for five days and still be complacent and less competitive if he is not motivated enough. I can safely say that I am as productive working from home as I would be if working from office.

WFH has its benefits, but there are some real risks as mentioned above. I think I have overcome most of them. I have been following some basic discipline religiously since last 6 years and have worked out well so far. Do note that it took a lot of time to master this, and I did struggle to get it right during the covid years when my kid was a year old and no domestic help was available.

If you are billing your client for 8 hours of work, you HAVE to make yourself available for 8 hours of the day. I don't mix other activities with the 8 hour slots I have for the day. These 8 hours are not fixed, I have to keep them flexible based on my project and how people working from other time-zones are available. For example, Currently, I make myself fully available from 9.30 to 11 AM. Then again from 2.30PM to 9.30PM

So during those 8 work hours:

1. No playing with the kid. Have kept a nanny to look after him now. I've conditioned him to understand that he should not disturb me during office hours and he follows it.
2. No gossip with wife, friends or parents. They get irritated sometimes that I have no time for conversations, but I can't help it. Talking with office colleagues of teams is allowed
3. No parallel whatsapp chatting, the only time I check them is during lunch or dinner or during non working hours. I've deliberately not kept my phone charger in my office room, so for the most part it stays away from my hands, and its always silent. I don't wear smartwatch during work hours so no irritating notifications.
4. No urban-company scheduling of cleaning or fixing anything, everything is kept for weekends.
5. No delivery of non-essential items during office hours. I literally had to fight with my better half on this, as she would order anything and everything online and the door-bell would constantly ring, every 1 or 2 hours, breaking my train of thought or disrupting my work momentum.
6. No going out for chores or to have coffee just because I have light day at work. It turns into a habit, and then becomes a 'normal' behaviour.
7. No eating (this took longest time to adjust, but we simply stopped stashing unhealthy food items at home). Breakfast, snack time , lunch are all excluded from these work hours.
8. Office room door remains closed and no TV or web-series (missed out on lot of live IPL action due to this, but again, can't help )
9. Reading and posting content is limited only to team-bhp.com. Bigger posts like these are kept for after office hours. Reading content does not consume time the way watching videos does. It still can waste a lot of time though, so it boils down to self control.

Apart from these points, I have kept the hybrid model of work active. When I need absolute undivided attention for 8 hours in a stretch, I go to a shared workspace for which my current office happily pays. My previous office used to meet up for one day mandatorily after every 15 days.

A clear and strict self-imposed distinction in work hours and non office hours has made a lot of difference. I have my personal targets automatically set and achieved due do this. For example, If I miss the usual morning run before breakfast and and before 9.30AM, the day is gone for me, I don't use any other slot for my run. So that automatically forces me to wake up and get going. After 9.30PM, I can waste my time guilt-free watching reels on Instagram. Similarly, I have my timings conveyed to all team members (it is mentioned in my team's status bar), people don't ping me during those times nor do I respond immediately to mails or chats during my non work hours.

Lastly, nothing motivates more than strict deadlines and being asked to report about it by another person. I make a point to tell my boss to diligently follow up on my tasks so there is no room for complacency.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

If you are billing your client for 8 hours of work, you HAVE to make yourself available for 8 hours of the day. I don't mix other activities with the 8 hour slots I have for the day. These 8 hours are not fixed, I have to keep them flexible based on my project and how people working from other time-zones are available.

Superb! Thanks for articulating this so well. To be able to be so disciplined, especially when you also have to take care of your child is fantastic.

I think a lot of us (me included- I sometimes still struggle with motivation without a strict deadline, but I'm getting better at it) are not comfortable when the onus is squarely on us for motivation and self-discipline. I guess in most of our lives, we're so used to having someone tell us what to do and supervise us, even as adults (parents, teachers, spouse, relatives, boss, kids), that flexibility and freedom actually make us uncomfortable! And naturally we can't believe that other people are capable of not abusing that flexibility.

But great to hear of such examples and thank you for sharing your techniques.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

I have been working from home since 2014 For one year in 2016, I did join a company where I had to waste time commuting, left that work in order to save my career (different story) but since then, I've .........
Lastly, nothing motivates more than strict deadlines and being asked to report about it by another person. I make a point to tell my boss to diligently follow up on my tasks so there is no room for complacency.

If everyone follows this, we wouldn't be discussing WFH in this thread.

[V.Narayan]

Germany's Intelligence Agency Facing Recruitment Woes As Would-Be Spies Want To Work From Home

https://www.msn.com/en-in/lifestyle/...f3353b41&ei=11

Without taking away from the seriousness of this thread. This news feed drew a smile on my face. WFH is here to stay. Workers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your cubicles!

I am all for evolving times and need to change and certain that some form of hybrid is here to stay. It will be different for each industry & region and within that for nature and level of work. Though the insistence of some that all the benefits of a full time secure employment should be forthcoming to an IT worker who does 100% WFH is not a likely scenario. The prospective employee might want it but so must the prospective employer.

On a personal note WFH has been a boon for me last two months as I am into a long term session of convalescing and both my employees and external agencies I deal with except Govt bodies are comfortable doing a zoom call versus an in person meeting.

Coming back to Germany. This is the problem of too high a standard of living, too many opportunities and too few young people. Despite all the various forms of electronic surveillance spying & intelligence work needs feet on the street. Tongue in cheek maybe they can outsource spying to India.

[Samurai]

Since the pandemic, the Intelligence services are finding it harder to recruit staff as prospects want to work from home and would rather not part with their personal cell phones, BND chief divulged on Monday.

This problem will only grow. Next it is the military that will face the same issue. Future soldiers would want to fight from home too, and keep their smartphones at the same time. Call of Duty will be real...

Even in IT, WFH is not ideal all the time. Having a bunch of people in the same building for few hours a day makes certain things possible, like impromptu ideation/brainstorming sessions, superior triage for production issues, and finally intense focus.

Very few people can train their family members to leave them alone during work hours.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Theyota

If I read through this thread, it seems a lot of folks seem to be focused on how it is beneficial for their selves and barely a few talk about how it is beneficial for employers. Personally I think employers worldwide have agreed to continue WFH for most employees to various degrees of WFH because employees want it and not because employers see significant benefits for the company in it.

In my personal opinion, this is abuse of WFH policy if this is during normal working hours and your work requires you to be 100% available during the normal work schedule. But WFH can only work if employees follow basic work discipline and ethics.

Thank you @Theyota for saying it as it is. A few of us, including me have been the lonely voices on this unionistic thread speaking up for the employer. There are two key sides to WFH - employee and employer. This fundamental point is lost on some employees especially on this thread. As a consequence, they deprive themselves of a fuller understanding of the dynamics of WFH.

Speaking for the 3 Tech companies I'm associated with - including in one case a massive fraud collectively executed at a remote site in a foreign country - WFH has been a tepid experience for these employers. And WFH has brought in a unionistic mind set amongst employees which hitherto was India's IT industry's saviour and gave us our competitiveness and flexibility the customer struggled to find elsewhere. Now with this recalcitrant attitude on top of the problems the employer and paying customer has suffered at the hands of WFH we risk having one less USP in favour of India's IT industry. You may read my real life anecdote here on what ranting about WFH without understanding the need for compromise leads to. ->

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

A very interesting point I learnt yesterday. An old friend, the MD of a large IT services company came home yesterday to meet me as I am convalescing....

I empathize with employees and all citizens who need to commute through dense tiresome traffic. I can really empathize with the clerk in Mumbai working in Fort who has limited job change opportunities and commutes from Borivali. He may not have a choice. But on this thread we are talking of highly qualified IT professionals in the most mobile job changing industry in this country. What stops you from taking up employment closer to your residence in super crowded BLR? The fact that IT professionals attrite at 25% to 35% a year indicates an abundance of jobs and a willingness to shift. When a well paid adult who owns a car, has a degree or two says he insist on taking a job he knows will be a 2-hour commute in a crowded city and then expect the employer to accommodate him with WFH indicates IMHO a separation from reality.

Forgive me for my harsh tone. I only want our young and at times innocent members to know the full picture. Otherwise some posts here remind me of the union screamers {Tiger, Tiger burning bright!!!} I once dealt with in Maharashtra long ago when unions were in fashion. Their motto was no listening - no discussion - no middle ground. Good for them. In the end we simply shut shop and went home and moved the work to an existing location. Good for us. They lost their jobs though we didnt lose any business. That is the reality. Business cannot invest or generate employment if one side adopts rigidity.

[UD17]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Business cannot invest or generate employment if one side adopts rigidity.

This sentence carries all the wisdom.

Our firm is traditional Auto ancillary but recruiting for the BSG (business system group) role. Most candidates want:

- Permanent work from home (some are living around 6-10 Kms away from the work place, which takes 15-20 minutes by car)
- Hike of 50% (on an average. Some are asking 40 and some 70)

Our company was OK to provide above two but asked commitment to remain in the company for minimum 2 year (both ways). No candidate was OK to commit even 2 years. Such is the state of business right now.

Needless to say our company continues with the outsourced service (which has some downsides) but it saves lot of uncertainty and cost.