[Red Liner]

Hiked up this spot in a fasted state (last meal at about 3 pm the previous day). I have completely got off black coffee and only had green tea that morning (as like every morning).

This was about 5 kms both ways at about 520 meters ascent straight up. Did not snack anywhere on the trek anywhere even though we carried nuts and dry fruits. Our breakfast therefore was only at about 13.00 well after we got down.

[coolmind]

Whenever I tell to my friends about IF, they argue that it will result into Ulcer because of long fasting. How can I answer them sir?

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Whenever I tell to my friends about IF, they argue that it will result into Ulcer because of long fasting. How can I answer them sir?

The proof is in the pudding. If possible, you can show them the results by adopting IF. As with anything, there will be skeptics. However, IF isn't for everyone. If your friends have tried IF and suffered a stomach ulcer, they should seek the advice of a medical professional.

If a person is hesitant, here are some tips:
1. Start by cutting carbs (at night if possible). Skip the rice, dosa, or chapati.
2. Start with 13-hour fasts - by eating dinner at 7 pm and the next day's breakfast at 8 am. Slowly extend that window to 14 hours after 2 weeks. And so on.
3. ONLY if a doctor suggests, they can try minor doses of antacid. (however the person shouldn't be dependent on the antacid for the sake of IF)

[graaja]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Whenever I tell to my friends about IF, they argue that it will result into Ulcer because of long fasting. How can I answer them sir?

I guess your friends mean you will get acidity if you do not eat and due to this you may get ulcer.

Our body is an intelligent machine. The digestive system secretes acid and enzymes for digestion only when you feed food to the body. There is also a hormone called ghrelin which is sort of a long term memory for the body. So, if you are having your breakfast everyday at 8AM, ghrelin spikes at that time which gives you a hunger signal and at the same time prepares the digestive system for the food that is going to arrive. If you do not eat at 8AM for a few days, ghrelin spiking will go away after a few days when the body remembers it is not going to get any food at 8AM. So, it also does not prepare the digestive system and does not secrete acid and the digestive enzymes. So no ulcers.

So, if someone says you will get ulcers if you do fasting, that is a misconception. Personally, I know 30+ friends who are doing IF and none of them have complained of acidity or ulcers. In fact, many have told me that their acidity or bloating problem has gone away with IF.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Hiked up this spot in a fasted state (last meal at about 3 pm the previous day). I have completely got off black coffee and only had green tea that morning (as like every morning).

This was about 5 kms both ways at about 520 meters ascent straight up. Did not snack anywhere on the trek anywhere even though we carried nuts and dry fruits. Our breakfast therefore was only at about 13.00 well after we got down.

This is awesome! Proof how our body can tap into the fat reserve and keep us energetic in fasted state!

[ampere]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Whenever I tell to my friends about IF, they argue that it will result into Ulcer because of long fasting. How can I answer them sir?

I am not a medical person to answer this question. But I think this is more a transient response of the body till your steady state takes overs. Your body is so accustomed to have food at a pre-designated timespot, it pre-fetches digestion mechanisms to wait for intake. Thats one reason (I guess) as to why we feel acidic/get ulcers etc.

The way to approach this is to:

1. Align schedule which has best overlap will sleep-cycle and max of non-eating time window during your normal days. This usually will translate to early dinner + breakfast skip. And start with 12-14 hrs fasting before you hit 16 and above.
   
2. Get your body slowly accustomed to what it needs as compared to what your tongue desires! This will play a large part in improving your fasting capability. You will be surprised at your body's capability to adapt and actually let you know what you actual intake can be!

[srvm]

Dear graaja & others who have given valuable inputs about IF,
Many thanks to you all.
Myself & wife have started IF since last Saturday with a fasting window of 14 hours to begin with. Planning to slowly ramp it to 16 hours over the course of next few weeks. We hope to find the mental strength to keep this up without giving up.

I'm 40 years old and about 67kgs (always been around this weight since I was 23). My wife is 35 years old and about 68kgs - she gained some weight/fat after childbirth which has stayed since then. Looking to shed some of it now. I showed this thread to her sometime back. She was piqued and read about IF and seems to have been convinced enough to give it a try. Once again, thanks to you.

I'll post updates whenever I can about our progress.

[Samurai]

I had similar conversation with a much younger cousin recently. She is 33 and doctor has advised her to eat at exact times. Breakfast at 8am sharp, lunch at 1pm sharp and dinner at 8pm sharp, etc. If she doesn't, she gets acidity.

I explained her how insulin works and how we can train it. But she trusts her doctor more than me. So no IF in her future.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by srvm

Myself & wife have started IF since last Saturday with a fasting window of 14 hours to begin with. Planning to slowly ramp it to 16 hours over the course of next few weeks. We hope to find the mental strength to keep this up without giving up.

Very glad to know that you and your wife are starting the IF lifestyle. Once you get used to IF, it is very easy to stay the path for life. Looking forward to your updates regularly.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I had similar conversation with a much younger cousin recently. She is 33 and doctor has advised her to eat at exact times. Breakfast at 8am sharp, lunch at 1pm sharp and dinner at 8pm sharp, etc. If she doesn't, she gets acidity.

I explained her how insulin works and how we can train it. But she trusts her doctor more than me. So no IF in her future.

This is a very unfortunate truth. Conventional medical system almost always overlooks the fact that body is a wonderful feedback mechanism that can take care of itself under most circumstances if we let it be.

But I am seeing many Doctors (our friend Dr. Louis is one such) who are now questioning conventional system and who guide their patients to achieve overall health with IF, low carb etc.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I had similar conversation with a much younger cousin recently. She is 33 and doctor has advised her to eat at exact times. Breakfast at 8am sharp, lunch at 1pm sharp and dinner at 8pm sharp, etc. If she doesn't, she gets acidity....

Originally Posted by graaja

This is a very unfortunate truth. Conventional medical system almost always overlooks the fact that body is a wonderful feedback mechanism that can take care of itself under most circumstances if we let it be.

No disrespect meant, but many doctors give wrong advise to scare people and get them 'hooked' on to drugs. It is not just a few rotten apples, but a systemic problem due to a misguided incentive system. As BM Hegde & Caldwell Esselstyn put it: "Modern medicine is focused on treating the symptoms of disease and not the cause"

Also, people generally suffer from what are 'diseases of prosperity.' Most of the common disorders can be avoided by maintaining a balanced diet and a healthy lifestyle.

[drrajasaravanan]

Hi,
Pertaining to the discussion regarding acidity and IF i called up one of my colleague who is a senior gastroenterologist and had a small chat. What i could conclude after inputs from him are

1. Many people confuse GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disorder) and APD (Acid peptic disease). I am avoiding intentionally further complex categories and information to keep it simple.
2.GERD improves and lot and offers relief in majority with IF and balanced diet (no data between keto or LCHF)
3. People with APD need to identify and treat the underlying cause and in majority of them its due to H.pylori infection which is treatable in 90% of symptomatic individuals with 7 days of antibiotic and another 5% may need further course and in some it can be optimized and not be cured. Other factors as NSAID, smoking, alcohol, stress contributes more for APD than fasting.
4. APD does not mean you cant start IF with LCHF or Keto. Each person responds in a different way and taking 3 large meals or 6 small meals is not the answer to treat APD in significant proportion of the subgroup
5. IF with keto of LCHF with staggered reduction in eating window will be able to identify the response in an individual. Initial period hunger pangs and acid secretion will increase but its possible it will get reset as your body responds to the new change which is a likely norm in more than 50%.
6. Symptomatic APD which worsens on IF should not self medicate with antacids and continue as there is a possibility to land up with complications. Study article of subset of patients who are known severe APD during Ramadan who choose to stay on H2 antagonists of PPI, significant number of them developed complications during Ramadan and small proportion of them it was life threatening.
Just wanted to add my colleague, a doctor, known GERD is presently asymptomatic and is on her 3rd week of IF. If anyone wants to read or refer further data i can forward them. If there are other doctors in this forum who can contribute or add concerns i guess it would help a lot.

IMHO, nearing 2 months of IF and LCHF i feel this is the easiest way to stay healthy. Cheers.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by graaja

This is a very unfortunate truth. Conventional medical system almost always overlooks the fact that body is a wonderful feedback mechanism that can take care of itself under most circumstances if we let it be.

But I am seeing many Doctors (our friend Dr. Louis is one such) who are now questioning conventional system and who guide their patients to achieve overall health with IF, low carb etc.

The primary focus of modern medicine is to make sick people normal. This is what is taught in medical schools and that is what doctors practice.

Making normal people healthy doesn't come under the purview. It depends on doctors' research, experiments and practice. 3 good meals a day is what our ancestors handed over to us and any doctor proposing OMAD will be sued or lose his/her practice .

(I mean people visit doctors, only when they are sick and that is what doctors are trained for).

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

As BM Hegde & Caldwell Esselstyn put it: "Modern medicine is focused on treating the symptoms of disease and not the cause"

Which medicine system treats the cause? If only symptoms are treated, won't the disease recur? Is that happening?

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Which medicine system treats the cause?

Ayurveda does. There maybe quite a few others too. But modern western medicine certainly doesn't.

If only symptoms are treated, won't the disease recur? Is that happening?

Happening every day - diabetes medication has become normal in our life. I've two uncles (both around 55) who approached diabetes in drastically different manners.

One of them has been eating the same diet in lower quantities and has been dependent on medicines for over 2 decades.

The other changed his diet drastically and went to consuming zero medicine after 5 years of diabetes.

No prizes for guessing who is more healthy.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by drrajasaravanan

Hi,
Pertaining to the discussion regarding acidity and IF i called up one of my colleague who is a senior gastroenterologist and had a small chat. What i could conclude after inputs from him are

This is very useful information. Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss with an expert and sharing the details here. When this information comes from Doctors, it has much more credibility and can help many

I am going to request the moderators and add a link to this post in the table of index in the first page.

Originally Posted by msdivy

If only symptoms are treated, won't the disease recur? Is that happening?

I don't know about other diseases, at least for diabetes, I am sure the conventional system only treats the symptom which is elevated blood sugar. The system just adds the required dose of insulin or other medicines that will help bring down the sugar level, even though the dosage keeps increasing over time. Over time, diabetes also is the root cause of other problems with kidneys, heart, eyes etc. The right approach would be to check why the insulin resistance went high (diet, lifestyle etc.), and treat the insulin resistance, which will restore overall health.

Having said that, I don't want the discussion to go in the direction of finding fault in conventional medicine. Let us keep the discussion focused on IF, LCHF, Keto, advantages of physical activities etc.

[pariwar]

Originally Posted by graaja

In fact, many have told me that their acidity or bloating problem has gone away with IF.

+1 to that. Fully endorse! Was a problem with me for years & years. 20 days into 16:8 IF, acidity in super control, bloating now quite rare.

Hereto, my wedding ring had to be squeezed out of the base of the finger and coerced across the knuckles, for the monthly cleaning ritual. Now, it is much easier to remove and I am concerned (not really!) that as I progress through IF it might just completely slip off After 28 married years, will the wife be happy or should I be?

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by graaja

Long distance atheletes can develop fatty liver usually because of the high amounts of sugary gels they consume during races and the highly carb loaded diet they follow. But you have already mentioned you do not consume gels during your runs. What is your diet like? Is it mostly carbs (rice and rotis)? How are your test results for metabolic markers - fasting insulin, fasting sugar, insulin resistance and hba1c? Your diet will have to be designed based on these factors. If you have high insulin resistance, then you will have to first reverse the insulin resistance by following a low carb diet. Diet will play the key role to reverse these conditions, whereas long distance running will not help here.


During long distance running, your muscles will sustain micro tears. If you do not take enough protein in your diet body will not be able to repair these tears which may also result in muscle loss in the long term. Strength training is the best way to deal with this. You need to incorporate at least 3 sessions of strength training in a week to build lean muscle mass. You have mentioned that you are doing this. Continue doing this and you should be able to slowly build muscle mass and also prevent any muscle loss.


Hope this helps.

Dear @graaja, Thanks for your kind inputs it helps.

For past couple of months I am recouping from a sever planters issue that appeared last year. Got fixed, and again came back two months back. So my running has drastically comedown. To avoid injuries I am venturing out only once a week for around 15-20 kms. However my physical activities with strength and flexibility are done for over an hour everyday.

Meantime, I started of with IF to experiment on my cholesterol level. Even with high physical activities before my total cholesterol was either shy of 200 or slightly over it. My food before IF was heavy on rice.
I stared my IF from December 1st, so far I have been able to maintain an average of 17 hours with maximum of 19 and the lowest of 14 hours.

Few observations, need your views.
- Actually my target was not to reduce weight. I was already at 60. So moving below will make me more thin. However with IF now I have moved to 57, I am still ok, I mostly lost fat. Now I will have to focus on more strength training to gain lean mass.
- I generally break my fast between 1 to 3 pm with good abdomen workout for half hour just before that.
- My regular strength workouts are during morning hours. Currently only on Saturdays I go for my long runs. My longest so far with IF is 18 kms with ease with pace below 5 with HR around 150-160 and may be couple of km at peak to finish.
- My food intake is restricted to 2/3 pm to 7 pm mostly.
- This is how my typical diet most of the days are;
- Break the fast with few almonds
- Have a protein shake after 5-10 minutes
- Have my meal after 5- 10 minutes comprising 3-4 eggs mostly without yolk, stir fried mixed vegetables with a slice of fish or chicken. So far I have not taken rice except for 2 occasions in very small quantity. No chapatis either. All vegies or egg cooked with butter, ghee or olive oil. Everyday have added panner to my vegetables. Once or twice a week greens and dal.
- Have one fruit, orange or apple around 5 pm followed by a protein shake at 6 pm and mostly close by 7 pm with the same vegetable that was cooked for noon.

Yesterday, I want for an unplanned cholesterol and glucose test. To my surprise, my cholesterol reports have gone crazy. The previous test was done during October and mostly in control, but now it has gone completely way high. Not sure where I have gone wrong, need your opinion.

As a general view, is my intake of 'fat' leading to this?