[coolmind]

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Yesterday, I want for an unplanned cholesterol and glucose test. To my surprise, my cholesterol reports have gone crazy. The previous test was done during October and mostly in control, but now it has gone completely way high. Not sure where I have gone wrong, need your opinion.

As a general view, is my intake of 'fat' leading to this?

Iam also surprised at your report taken after IF. Not sure whether reports are to be doubted.
If you don't mind, can you please mention your age sir?
Will be eagerly for a reply from graaja sir.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Will be eagerly for a reply from graaja sir.

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Meantime, I started of with IF to experiment on my cholesterol level. Even with high physical activities before my total cholesterol was either shy of 200 or slightly over it. My food before IF was heavy on rice.
I stared my IF from December 1st, so far I have been able to maintain an average of 17 hours with maximum of 19 and the lowest of 14 hours.

...

Few observations, need your views.

...

Yesterday, I want for an unplanned cholesterol and glucose test. To my surprise, my cholesterol reports have gone crazy. The previous test was done during October and mostly in control, but now it has gone completely way high. Not sure where I have gone wrong, need your opinion.

As a general view, is my intake of 'fat' leading to this?

Your IF + diet + exercise combination is actually perfect. Wish I could get to this perfection

You are one of the few who can be classified as hyper responders who have very good fat metabolism and this can result in cholesterol and LDL levels going up.

Here is a very good video explaining about the exact situation you are in: HDL gone up, Triglycerides gone down, Insulin gone down, but LDL and total cholesterol gone up with IF and low carb dieting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXtd...IJkT_&index=99

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by graaja

Your IF + diet + exercise combination is actually perfect. Wish I could get to this perfection

You are one of the few who can be classified as hyper responders who have very good fat metabolism and this can result in cholesterol and LDL levels going up.

Dear @graaja, Thank you for the quick response.

Having been into sports (running) during my early age helps me to try new combinations now. Through my age I was active, mostly. But your determination and the amazing in-depth knowledge on the subject is simply awesome!

Very interesting video. Not sure if I should take it positively or not, you know why! But the feeler is nice to know higher LDL is good. When I got into IF my aim was to pull down all the parameters to the least possible number, now this is a twist. Not sure if I should cutdown fat though! But, more vegetables means I might have calorie deficit and like Dr.Nadir Ali says I may have to spend lot of time at toilet.

In general, for people that are into LCHF diet, how does the overall graph progress, if you could help please. Also, for general public the usual guide would be the numbers on Glucose, Cholesterol etc that indicate the overall wellbeing, now what should I be monitoring

I guess my one and half month is too early to share my overall feeling about IF. But yes, I should be honest to tell that I get those hunger waves around 9 or 11 am then around 1 pm. I have managed them with water till know. Though I am used to green tea, after starting IF I have completely avoided it. So during fasting there is nothing but water. I have also also observed that during initial days oral odour was an issue, now I don't notice it much and having water regularly helps, what do you suggest. Also, my bowel routine is yet to get adjusted to the new way.

Edit: some of the content in the video was little too much for me to understand!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by coolmind

If you don't mind, can you please mention your age sir?

Sir, for long time I guess I was assuming I am 40 years young. Yesterday when they asked my age while taking the test I had to recalibrate and realized I am nearing 44

[graaja]

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Having been into sports (running) during my early age helps me to try new combinations now.

...

In general, for people that are into LCHF diet, how does the overall graph progress, if you could help please.

In general population, IF and Low carb generally reduces all cholesterol markers.

From your statement that you do a sub 5 18k run which you call it easy, I will classify you as a very good athlete - almost a pro level. I have read articles that indicate athletes can be mostly hyper responders whose cholesterol levels go high on a low carb diet.

There are some reasons why this happens. You have higher energy demands. You have lower body fat % which means low in fuel. Low glycogen stores due to low carb. Because of this combination body will try to mobilise fat utilization to support your energy demands which will naturally inrease your blood cholesterol levels.

I would like to understand a few more details.

1. What is your height?
2. Have you measured your body fat %? How much is this? There are some simple body fat% calculators online that can give a very rough % based on your measurements at waist and neck.
3. Do you do HR based training? If yes, when you run a sub 5 18km, what HR zone do you pre-dominantly run? How intense are your strength training workouts? If you are in Z3 or above for a longer duration, your body will need glycogen to support these intensities. In the absence of glycogen, your body will be breaking down more fat cells and this can cause the spike in cholesterol and also you may feel a little drop in performance.

From your description so far, I think increasing the carbs a little should provide you with enough glycogen to fuel the high intensit parts of your workouts. This will bring cholesterol levels down. I will be able to give you a better assessment once I have an answer to the above questions.

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by graaja

In general population, IF and Low carb generally reduces all cholesterol markers.
..... I have read articles that indicate athletes can be mostly hyper responders whose cholesterol levels go high on a low carb diet.

Dear @graaja, Thanks once again for sharing insightful information.

I am not a pro, but reasonable a good athlete, call it runner. Here are few additional information. During my teens was good at 1500, once participating at state level. At later stages, though active, was not serious on sports. Got back into running again around 7-8 years back, with more focus on 10k and some good try on half and couple of full. My sweet spot for 10k is around 45, best 39 and this years best was 43.

Two years back when planters issue struck me I started looking for alternate sports and come across cycling on teambhp. Again, your related posts were inspiring, and I plunged into it and completed my SR. I would have probably completed half or quarter (if there was one) iron man had I knew swimming

As mentioned earlier your posts are intuitive and of great insight!

Here are my details:
- My height is 171 cm.
- As per my Dr.Trust scale my body fat is 14% and the web tools suggested by you shows around 16.8%.
- I don't do HR based training. Sometimes I do intervals. Most part of my runs would be in zone 4 (150-160).
- My current set of strength trainings are at home not very intense.
- With IF I am able to manage without much push. Even during the running days my fasts are mostly around 18-19 hours. My runs are limited to 1 day a week due to planters issue.

Now that Cholesterol is going high, should I be cutting down on my fat intake, or what is the way ahead.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

As mentioned earlier your posts are intuitive and of great insight!
...
Now that Cholesterol is going high, should I be cutting down on my fat intake, or what is the way ahead.

Thank you for your kind words.

No need to cut out fat. Just add a little carbs (a cup of rice, a couple of chapatis or a couple of medium sized potatoes etc.). I think you should be able to add this small portion of carbs to your existing diet without cutting anything else.

Also, I see that you are having protein shake twice apart from the 3 to 4 egg whites. What is the protein quantity per drink? For your weight and fat % and activity level, 60g to 75g of protein should be good enough. There is no need for any more. One egg white has about 7 grams of protein. So, if you have 4 eggs, that is 28g of protein. Paneer, dal etc. will also add more protein. So, I would adjust the protein shake accordingly.

[graaja]

The power of fat metabolism:

Yesterday, worked at the farm cleaning up all the weeds that had grown during the monsoon. It was hard labor for 4 hours. And I was doing my regular 18 hour fast, which got extended to 21+ hours. I had a couple of black coffees and a green tea during the breaks. Was absolutely energetic throughout the work. Just a proof how body efficiently burns fat during fasting and keeps you energetic.

The thick overgrowth of weeds after the heavy monsoon.


4 hours of work (with a few breaks in between) with this 8 kilo brush cutter hanging from the shoulder.


The result.


Also did a few sets of pull ups during the breaks and finished off with a set


The fast.


The past 1 week of fasts.

[drrajasaravanan]

Hi Graaja,
I saw the discussion regarding raised TGL and LDL during keto diet and did a indexed journal search. In 2018 and 2019 two articles have reported grossly increased LDL and TGL levels in athletes ( ultra endurance) who are on keto based diet regimens. They had no loss of performance or any symptoms.
Further search showed there are two school of thoughts where LDL is further categorized into 3 based on its dimension and one group believes as of 2020 that the small LDL carries the highest risk factor for atherosclerosis related disorders while another group refutes the same. Its interesting to note that one study reported that the athletes with high LDL had very low small LDL levels.
(https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/4/1/e000429) This is one of the articles reported in 2018.
There are several opinions but reliable ones seem to agree that its because of more efficient fat burning process in the individual and not to be worried. Whether this would increase cardiovascular risk is still being debated and there is no evidence i could find.
IMO, if i am on keto diet with elevated lipid profile i would cut down on fats for next 3 to 6months till it resets. If there is any clear evidence to support not to cut down fats i will post in this forum. Hope this helps.
Cheers.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Yesterday when they asked my age while taking the test I had to recalibrate and realized I am nearing 44

Ah, to be so young again...

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

I would have probably completed half or quarter (if there was one) iron man had I knew swimming

You still have plenty of time. I learned swimming at 46.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by drrajasaravanan

... LDL is further categorized into 3 based on its dimension ..

Would you know if it is possible to get such lipid test reports done in India? Most standard blood tests give just LDL and HDL numbers and that too I believe some of these numbers are derived/calculated not actually measured. Thanks.

[drrajasaravanan]

Originally Posted by androdev

Would you know if it is possible to get such lipid test reports done in India? Most standard blood tests give just LDL and HDL numbers and that too I believe some of these numbers are derived/calculated not actually measured. Thanks.

Hi
LDL which is measured routinely doesn't actually reflect the true value but the index would suffice for most of us.
Usually it would be called Extended Lipid profile or NMC Lipid profile. It will not be available in routine panels and need to be specifically ordered usually by cardiologist. It's used for adjusting dose of medications and impact of life style modification in patients with impaired lipid profile. Good luck.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by drrajasaravanan

There are several opinions but reliable ones seem to agree that its because of more efficient fat burning process in the individual and not to be worried. Whether this would increase cardiovascular risk is still being debated and there is no evidence i could find.

IMO, if i am on keto diet with elevated lipid profile i would cut down on fats for next 3 to 6months till it resets. If there is any clear evidence to support not to cut down fats i will post in this forum. Hope this helps.
Cheers.

Hi Dr.,

Thanks a lot for taking time and checking this up.

I remember having read a blog article (couldn't locate that) by an athlete who was doing low carb/IF and observed high LDL levels. And he was joking that no insurance company would give him a policy and if he had to go for a medical check up for an insurance policy, he would switch to regular carb based diet for a week and the LDL levels would be back to normal.

As you said, though it is still under debate if these lipid markers are bad for the heart (I personally don't think so), if someone wants to avoid any risk, adding a little carb to the diet should bring back the cholesterol levels to normal.

[PearlJam]

Nice discussions from everyone!

Originally Posted by graaja

One egg white has about 7 grams of protein. So, if you have 4 eggs, that is 28g of protein.

Just to nitpick, one whole egg gives 6.5-7 grams, but only egg whites give around 3.6-4 grams! 4 egg whites would be around 16g.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Nice discussions from everyone!



Just to nitpick, one whole egg gives 6.5-7 grams, but only egg whites give around 3.6-4 grams! 4 egg whites would be around 16g.

Never eat egg whites alone. The egg yellow contains golden nutrients.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/are-egg-yolks-bad

[drrajasaravanan]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Nice discussions from everyone!
Just to nitpick, one whole egg gives 6.5-7 grams, but only egg whites give around 3.6-4 grams! 4 egg whites would be around 16g.

Hi,
You are right. Most people while following diet tend to go over board on their protein intake. Its preferable to target a protein in the range of 0.5gm to 0.75gm per kg of Ideal body weight. We should not need more than this. Plainly our body does not have the means to efficiently utilise protein after 40y. Cheers.