[InsaneSpeed]

I had the PhD bug in me soon after I completed my masters. However due to some inevitable situations I had to take up a corporate job and start working. Your priorities might also change as per time. Marriage, Family, Kids, EMI's may take the fore front in a few years and then your PhD dream may look just like a dream. Now after 15 yrs I am simply unable to go back to academics. At 25, I see you have time to complete your PhD and then look out for a decent job at a location of your choice. All the best!!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

This is because most Indians don't understand or appreciate academia or innovation. If you look at corporate budgets of the largest companies in India, many times more money is paid to consultants to design strategies which the managers were supposed to design, than to scientists. The consequence is for all of us to see- even a pencil gets imported from China. We revel in fake pride about some guy becoming a CEO of a foreign company and all alumni of that institute bask in his or her glory.

If this anti-intellectual boasting in India continues, we are in for deeper trouble in the next few years.

I completely agree with what you say. Though we Indians love to pat ourselves on the back with some from this country heading some top multinational companies one needs to understand that they were employees who worked themselves up the ranks and into their current positions via merit. They were never risk takers to begin with.

Why is it that a majority of Indians who want to innovate prefer not to do so in India but need to emigrate overseas to study, work and put their ideas to the test? That's because we Indians are mostly followers and R&D in most fields is thought of as an avoidable overhead to be kept at a minimum only for a mention in the annual report.

Our trader and follower mentality will hold us back. Plus we are constrained by what our bosses say (the famous Indian Corp. heirarchy) and I say this from personal experience having headed technology practices in different companies. R&D here is secondary which is why most innovations come from the West. Heck, even the world famous copy masters, the Chinese, do way better than we do!

PS - As I remarked once to my Guide and the Research Institute's Director - "Looks like in India academia doesn't appreciate industry and vice versa!" They agreed..off the record of course. Both seem to live in silos of their own making. I've seen the education field up pretty close and what I have seen is not encouraging. But that's a different topic altogether.

[srini1785]

I don't wish to provide any opinions here but till a few years back, PhD studies in Germany was not open for application from all students. Only a Professor with a PhD could invite a student with adequate potential to apply and a panel needs his/her (Professor's) recommendation.

Further, only a student with a perfect 1.0 grade and that too from a Universitat were allowed. Fachhochshule students or International MS holders could not. It would seem that rules have changed.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by R2D2

I am a PhD student myself and in my early 50s

Well, then you're the best person to answer this generic question...

Is it easier to complete a PhD when young & free or old with responsibilities? Easy is a relatively loose term, so let me refine with one statement - The focus is only on studying when younger versus having to think about children's education or making substantiate secondary income for family or early retirement or even work & study at the same time

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Now, here comes the dilemma. I have been accepted into an European university to do my PhD with a decent stipend. The professors were especially impressed with my proposal and work plan. Now, the topic I submitted for the PhD is something I am especially passionate about and since I did my master's in Belgium, I would really prefer to live in Europe as compared to Dubai (nicer people, better working conditions, better social life etc). Now I have made a pros and cons list to make the case for continuing my job or go back to university to do my PhD.

So, as you can see this is as much about the place (Dubai vs Europe) as it is about PhD vs continue in present job and hence quite complicated.

My heart says PhD but my head is divided. So, I would love to hear the perspective of Team-BHP community. Is there anything I am not considering in all this? What do you think I should do?

At 25 years of age - follow your dreams, follow your passion. There is no substitute for serious academic qualification and the network it could bring for you. And at this age it is likely you are not burdened with kids and paying for 85 year old parents. PhD -- go, go, go.

When I was 20 I wanted to go to an Ivy League college . But our family finances simply wouldn't permit it. So very sadly I dropped the effort even though I had admission {without aid} to one and completed by post-grad in India from a very decent institute. Much much later in life I went back to pursue a qualification from the top Ivy League in that line because by then I could afford it from my own resources. It was one of the more sensible decisions I took in my life with all the attendant risks of studying in middle age. That alumni network, even though most are years younger than me, is the best network I have.

PhD.

My very best wishes to you for your PhD and future success. Your field is a much needed one as the world gears up for looking after the planet. Just make sure your PhD studies and research leave you enough time to keep writing on aircrafts and naval matters

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by aargee

Well, then you're the best person to answer this generic question...

Is it easier to complete a PhD when young & free or old with responsibilities? Easy is a relatively loose term, so let me refine with one statement - The focus is only on studying when younger versus having to think about children's education or making substantiate secondary income for family or early retirement or even work & study at the same time

A PhD is not a full time degree course like a Bachelors or Masters degree are. Of course I do not take distance education in consideration here. In a PhD there's a lot of flexibility with no classes to attend and progress reports required every 6 months.

Let me ask you something - how many jobs require an doctoral degree? Other than research institutes and academia there are very few in the required in corporate world at least in India.

One of my relatives, a PhD and a professor at a college in Pune, told me the "P" in PhD stands for patience. And from my personal experience it is true. Your guide can make or break you. It is very different from the world I came from i.e Corporate where everything is done double quick and things are wanted "yesterday".

A majority of my batch mates are in full time jobs (including in academia) or businesses. But here I speak for myself; I can say with certainity that had I been working full time i.e. in my Corporate job with 12-15 hours a day in office sometimes staying overnight with the team to deliver software modules there was no way I could even think of a doctoral degree. Heck some of my ex collegues even asked me "What the heck do you need this degree for? Aren't you sick of studying?!"

So it all depends on ones personal situation and it should be directly related to some benefit whether tangible or intangible that will accrue from the effort put in. And it's also a decision that one needs to make after considering all angles. The older you get and the more responsibilities you have, you are less likely to have the time and propensity to take this on. So, before someone asks me why I am doing it well, it's a personal thing, an ambition of sorts. I do NOT need this degree, it's only a personal goal. Yeah and I do some part time teaching as well when possible. It's nice to interact with youngsters.

PS - I also believe education is an asset you carry with you all your life. By no means do I discourage anybody from further studies but a PhD is a different course that may or may not benefit you.

[anb]

10 years ago, I wasted the opportunity to convert my masters degree into PhD. Today I regret about that decision. Now I am not able to join for PhD as I have to look after my parents and kids. So in my opinion you should join for PhD at the earliest. It’s difficult to do PhD after crossing 30’s due to family commitments.

[Sridhar C E]

At your age, completing your academics should probably be your 1st choice. I am assuming that you have already explored the kind of opportunities you'll get once you acquire a P.Hd in your chosen field.

If, on the other hand, your current job can act as a springboard for pursuing jobs aligned to your Doctorate studies, then you could consider deferring your PHD.

I would think the former option of pursuing your doctorate is a better one, since it could direct your energies and focus in a subject/area of your choice.
Good luck!

[aargee]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Let me ask you something - how many jobs require an doctoral degree? Other than research institutes and academia there are very few in the required in corporate world at least in India

Thanks for clarifying because I was keeping in mind about taking a PhD from one of top 500, if not 100, Universities in the world & frankly did not consider India, sorry about that.

Originally Posted by R2D2

The older you get and the more responsibilities you have, you are less likely to have the time and propensity to take this on

Yes, this is the point I was stressing all the time that PhD is relatively easier for a younger brain with less responsibility than older brain with more responsibilities

And, wouldn't a PhD grad able start at relatively higher position in corporate (or government) compared to someone who has done masters even with 3-4 years of experience?

And wouldn't a PhD have a greater chance of getting senior position quicker relative to a masters with experience in broader terms (excluding exceptional cases)

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At 25 years of age - follow your dreams, follow your passion. There is no substitute for serious academic qualification and the network it could bring for you. And at this age it is likely you are not burdened with kids and paying for 85 year old parents. PhD -- go, go, go

Sir has worded much better than what I could convey in person; this is exactly the point I was trying to convey all the time, not sure if the message got through.

[ndnesh]

If I may offer my 2 cents, (this coming from someone who regrets not pursuing his own education with more passion and getting by with Distance education), I would always suggest that you go for further education. I am in my Thirties now and pursuing education becomes harder as you go along. There are more things you need to spare your time for.

So my regret for not having a solid college/education/that 4 years of being surrounded by peers etc does color my opinion, but I would always suggest that we are where we are because of education(College /schools or otherwise., formal or informal) and a chance to be better educated is something to not give up on.

Also, do the due diligence that others here have asked you to do, Especially since Ph.D means working closely with that Professor/Faculty /mentor. They can make or break your whole experience and learning journey.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by aargee

Yes, this is the point I was stressing all the time that PhD is relatively easier for a younger brain with less responsibility than older brain with more responsibilities

Yes, but you need to be sure of why you want the doctoral degree and how it will help you in your career. Please understand this is not a run-of-the-mill degree like a grad or post-grad regardless of discipline. It can take far longer to complete the course.

And, wouldn't a PhD grad able start at relatively higher position in corporate (or government) compared to someone who has done masters even with 3-4 years of experience?

Not necessarily, in the companies I worked for very, very few i.e. very tiny percentage of people were PhD holders. Rest were graduates or post graduates. And no they didn't get any benefit from the degree AFAIK.

And wouldn't a PhD have a greater chance of getting senior position quicker relative to a masters with experience in broader terms (excluding exceptional cases)

You may get leg up over other colleagues in some Government departments like Research (in different disciplines), in Education and Statistical ministries, Universities, Colleges, IIM/IITs among others. It all depends on the job that you are in. In fact nowadays it is mandatory for Professors and Assistant professors to have PhDs.

But as I keep stressing - do it only if you require the degree (or because you want one, like I do) because it is not mandatory for Corporate jobs unless of course you apply for specialist R&D vacancies for e.g. in fields like pharma, technology, bio-tech among others.

That said, you don't lose out on anything should you earn this degree but also remember that the time vs. pain vs. gain ratio should be assessed. Evaluate your situation carefully and then take a call.

[CarJunki]

At 25 earnings and investment makes great amount of difference in quality of life @50.

There is a definite age bias in the technology area. At 50 going for PhD would make more sense. Companies with each passing day want to hire people with lower age. Try quick, fail fast and pivot is making the knowledge gained from past failures less valuable. And there is growing body of knowledge accessible openly for anyone. Thus the finer nuances are less relevant.

Academia has no upper age limit and has definite view of age and experience as plus.

As others have suggested, if the PhD makes you achieve life goals better, sure do it. If there is even a hint of doubt then it can wait.

At the same time if you are earning today and 30% or more of your earning is not going towards wealth creation, that will lead you nowhere. It is an indicator of either low earnings or high expenditure or both.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by CarJunki

At 25 earnings and investment makes great amount of difference in quality of life @50.

+1

There is a definite age bias in the technology area. At 50 going for PhD would make more sense. Companies with each passing day want to hire people with lower age. Try quick, fail fast and pivot is making the knowledge gained from past failures less valuable. And there is growing body of knowledge accessible openly for anyone. Thus the finer nuances are less relevant.

As an example, one of the companies I worked for reduced retirement age from 60 to 55 a few years back. Some IT services companies have followed suit. I expect it to get lower in the coming decades as automation, robots and AI make even more jobs redundant. Youngsters today should plan to retire by 50 or max 55 regardless of the sector they work for. Heck, even the Govt has offered VRS to people >50. Isn't that a sign of times to come?

There's already a pretty lengthy thread on how people in their 40s are facing the heat of possible redundancies. Check this thread Plight of IT professionals in their 40s (The plight of IT professionals in their 40s)

Academia has no upper age limit and has definite view of age and experience as plus.

Absolutely!! Your work/career is running against the clock! It is very, very important to evaluate the situation carefully. If the degree is required by all means do it but if there is a doubt speak to someone in your organisation preferably a PhD holder to gauge his/her thoughts. PhD is NOT the Holy Grail of degrees!

[aargee]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Yes, but you need to be sure of why you want the doctoral degree and how it will help you in your career. Please understand this is not a run-of-the-mill degree like a grad or post-grad regardless of discipline. It can take far longer to complete the course.

Agreed beyond a quark of doubt; it's the passion on the subject that drives

Originally Posted by R2D2

But as I keep stressing - do it only if you require the degree (or because you want one, like I do) because it is not mandatory for Corporate jobs unless of course you apply for specialist R&D vacancies for e.g. in fields like pharma, technology, bio-tech among others

Wouldn't completing a PhD (ofcourse pursuing towards) land one in such an aspiring company? Whereas, not earning a PhD & just yearning to work for such organization have a slim chance of landing in such a job or organization?

Originally Posted by R2D2

also remember that the time vs. pain vs. gain ratio should be assessed

Pain is there everywhere isn't it? Pain & gain goes up with age & advancements in studies, job & as life progresses isn't it? So let's discard that for the moment pls.

Originally Posted by CarJunki

At 25 earnings and investment makes great amount of difference in quality of life @50

+1 boss

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by aargee

Wouldn't completing a PhD (ofcourse pursuing towards) land one in such an aspiring company?

If the role requires a PhD yes it will improve your chances.

We are all familiar with job search sites and professional social networks on LinkedIn etc. In the job listings related to your field of work and domain, for both multinational and Indian companies, in India and overseas, check if any requires or at least says preference given to PhD degree holders. You will have your answer right there.