[Raghuwire]

I see that the overwhelming responses here are in favour of going for PhD. I will try to provide my views on the difficulties of doing the PhD now. A little bit of background, I just completed my MBA from ISB and my wife is wrapping up her PhD and my son just turned 20 months old. My wife took the plunge into PhD in 2015. Few things which we need to consider IMHO: (some of them may seem like very very stereotypical, please bear)

1. On personal front by the time you are halfway through your PhD, Most Indians are married, and finding an arranged match at that time is tough,due to your position. Secondly, even if you have a GF, it tends to get super tough. My friend is looking for an arranged marriage, and Me and wifey faced the love marriage troubles).
2. PhD makes you a very specialized person in a small niche. So finding work, suitable for that high knowledge in a specific field becomes tough. I have friends who have started working in tech startups in completely unrelated fields, just becuase they did not find jobs in their field. Do have a detailed survey of what job options are available post PhD. If you dont find suitable options now, what surety that you will have a job that deserves a phD later on.
3. A long and tiring battle. My wife is extremely passionate, but in the course of 5 years she has been worn down by the rigours, constant pressure and sometimes disillusionment of the worth of all the work she puts into it. Getting out quality papers and publishing them is a challenge and requires a lot of effort and undivided attention. Such commitment over so long a period, is really tough. An assesment of whether this is what you really want to do, is a must.
4. Location preference should never be the reason for picking up a PhD. It's just not worth the effort of 5 to 6 years. European is slowly falling behind in the tech curve (apart from a few exceptions) and in 5 years, we may see more outsourcing of research to lower cost countries than now. My own company has 1000 strong R&D team in India, whereas they have only a few people in a handful of European countries, and my Company is a true blue European with a large part of revenue and presence there.
5. 5 years is a lot. Do it only if you enjoy the academic rigour and grinding that is needed.
6. PhD is also a very secluded course. My friends have found it tough to even find good friends on campus to share the emotional baggage with.
7. Finances may become a big part of whatever you do finally. 5 years of stipend is tough, when you look at the opportunity cost of it.

It is truly a heart over mind decision. Having faced all or most of these issues, would me and wife go back and change our decision to follow our degrees, NO. Because we were really prepared to grind out all the hardship we were to face.

PS: I have been in middle east for a good half a decade, so i agree on the indian food.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by srini1785

I don't wish to provide any opinions here but till a few years back, PhD studies in Germany was not open for application from all students. Only a Professor with a PhD could invite a student with adequate potential to apply and a panel needs his/her (Professor's) recommendation.

Further, only a student with a perfect 1.0 grade and that too from a Universitat were allowed. Fachhochshule students or International MS holders could not. It would seem that rules have changed.

Things have changed a lot, let me highlight some facts about PhD in Germany.

1. PhD scholars in Germany are treated not as students, but equivalent to a faculty member.

2. There are two types of PhD - 3 years structured PhD and the classical 'no-time-limit' PhD.

3. The PhD scholars earn a very good salary, ranging anywhere from 50-75 % of what Professors earn, of-course it also depends on the project budget. A PhD is treated like a full time job.

4. Candidates from Fachhochschule or Technische Hochschule (Universitaet) can apply for PhD in Germany, they need to fulfill some criteria like ECTS.

5. The PhD scholar is given a 'much' free hand in completing his work.

6. In most German concerns, to become a Department Head, preference is first for someone with PhD (Dr.Ing in German), then to other qualifications, however this is not a must.

7. 1.0 is also no longer a must have criteria.

8. One of my Professors (a Dipl. Ing from FH) was Guide for a PhD scholar, so I believe only a PhD holder can guide another PhD scholar is also not a must.

Like many here have mentioned, the Guide and his research team, funds, publications should be the things that OP should be evaluating first. In my previous post, I had presumed the OP has already done this before applying for the PhD position, it seems it was not the case, my bad.

Spike

PS - In some Indian corporate context, if your peers realize that you are a smart, highly qualified and talented individual, who might pose a strong competition to them in the career ladder, you might be subjected to Pull him Down (PhD). So be careful of your long term goals

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Things have changed a lot..

So it seems.

Are the PhD's given by companies like Bosch , Siemens , Mercedes treated on par with academic PhD's ?. Till some years back they were not. Only academic scholars were given the Dr.Ing title. They were the ones that were most sought after by companies to sit in their board rooms. Looks like a lot has changed.

Btw : Is it still free education in Germany or it has also changed?.

Institutes like Fraunhofer , Max planck etc do not entertain FH students in their research teams. Only Academic scholars are admitted in their PhD

[ads11]

As someone about to defend my thesis Thursday (!), I went into this during a downturn for my industry when I finished my masters. As luck would have it, things suddenly became very different this year so once more my plans are a bit up in the air. But I have no regrets about that call.

Briefly for now I just wanted to second the PhD option. It's not going to be plain sailing, in fact you'll have plenty of miserable days (more than a few) but the personal gratification is much better. Besides you sound super keen for it already and that's always a good sign, especially considering what you're getting yourself into!

I'll come back over the weekend to give some more detailed feedback on some of the points I noticed briefly skimming through

[ampere]

Quite many useful posts I could see. Few notes/musings from my side:

First aspect which comes to mind is beyond academics, a PhD usually is not career wise rewarding by-and-large (especially in India context). Biotech/Pharma etc. are the exceptions where it would be a must.
Most engineering jobs are very well handled by a good engineer with graduate or post-graduate skills.

Another point to note is most of us tend to go for a post-graduation because we want to study at a better institute. And that would help bolster once’s chances at a better career because of better education and/or associated pedigree. But the same concept cannot be extended to a PhD. Simply because of the time factor involved and some other aspects associated (will talk about it later).

So now the question is would one want to do a PhD? If answer is no, we are done. If the answer is yes, then the question is when? Would it be continuous? All the way from UG/PG/PhD? Or go with UG/PG take a break and then take a shot at PhD.

If one chooses the former, in all probability one is looking at an academic career. But, if one chooses the latter, then a second question arises: What prompted him/her to look at PhD after PG and that too after spending sometime at professional work? In all probability it cannot be a professional need. Mostly personal. Either he wants to switch to academics or wants to do it for fun/knowledge seeking. Fun/Knowledge part can be easily answered because one won’t put his professional life on hold. But still the stress of handling office/home still needs to be looked at. But if one wants to switch to academics so late, then it’s a questionable thing. We can debate on that aspect of life separately.

Of course am not generalizing the scenarios, but stating what I have seen around.


Based on OP's case it looks like he is well settled in his career. So if his learning is stagnated he should look at non-PhD options. Or look at shifting to a job in EU and try hand at a external/part-time PhD with an associated problem. One need not sacrifice a well established and a sufficiently rewarding career.

But if he is looking to change course, I think it would open up a whole lot of uncertainty.

[noopster]

I was going to vote blindly for the "Go to Europe for PhD" option but stopped cold when I came towards the end of your open post. If you are worried about getting a "job" after PhD, you should probably not opt for one. In my experience (I'm an IIM PG but have several friends who have doctorates) the only happy PhDs are those that stay in academia and/or become super-specialised consultants in their fields of expertise. The others (including most management PhDs/FPs) struggle to find jobs where people their age already have 5 years experience by the time they are done with their doctorate.

Androdev's advice is spot-on: go to Europe and don't do a PhD

Europe is a much-preferred location to live and work than Dubai. If you feel you are stagnating at 25, with one year in, you can rest assured the feeling will only multiply by the time you are in your 30s and 40s. Focus on your area of expertise and shift to Europe with a job- that would be my advice!

[SulemanP]

I believe one should always complete his/her studies before venturing in to corporate world. I personally feel it becomes a lot difficult to forgo the money, you earn or be content with very little as stipend, if you start earning in the middle of your career. More so if there are no family/finance complications around you…
I got drifted towards earning more money and making my life better as I had finance issues, later I realized that I need to learn more to earn more. It was not easy for me but I could somehow complete my MBA that too distance learning.
So in my honest opinion go ahead and complete your studies first if the situation allows you to do so cause later in your life no one will ask you to complete any degree and you may not have enough time in hand to address this issue…

[McLaren Rulez]

The decision to start a PhD or not is one that only you can make. And you're probably smart enough to decide what you really want to do with life.

I will only say this - Do not fall for the trap of "Oh, but I'd lose x years of experience/promotions/earnings compared to my peers in the corporate world". That line of thinking is so risk-averse that it prevents you from trying anything new. Playing it that safe in life will usually lead to long term regrets when you are older.

[Durango Dude]

Nowadays time just flies; don't ask anyone for advice you're in charge of your own future, if you can afford it why not do your Ph.D? Since you say there's not much action in your employment and no chance of growth being family owned: these are trying times and such businesses are the first to fall when the going gets tough. 25 years is right age to check out options and take risks in order to make yourself competitive in your future employment prospects. Talk with your family and close friends who have taken the leap and decide.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At 25 years of age - follow your dreams, follow your passion. There is no substitute for serious academic qualification and the network it could bring for you. And at this age it is likely you are not burdened with kids and paying for 85 year old parents. PhD -- go, go, go.

PhD.

Thank you sir. Might I add, the network I built while doing my masters in Belgium is what gave me success in my first job here in Dubai. It's very useful to have a definitive answer from someone of your experience.

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

1. On personal front by the time you are halfway through your PhD, Most Indians are married, and finding an arranged match at that time is tough,due to your position. Secondly, even if you have a GF, it tends to get super tough. My friend is looking for an arranged marriage, and Me and wifey faced the love marriage troubles).
2. PhD makes you a very specialized person in a small niche. So finding work, suitable for that high knowledge in a specific field becomes tough. I have friends who have started working in tech startups in completely unrelated fields, just becuase they did not find jobs in their field. Do have a detailed survey of what job options are available post PhD. If you dont find suitable options now, what surety that you will have a job that deserves a phD later on.
3. A long and tiring battle. My wife is extremely passionate, but in the course of 5 years she has been worn down by the rigours, constant pressure and sometimes disillusionment of the worth of all the work she puts into it. Getting out quality papers and publishing them is a challenge and requires a lot of effort and undivided attention. Such commitment over so long a period, is really tough. An assesment of whether this is what you really want to do, is a must.
4. Location preference should never be the reason for picking up a PhD. It's just not worth the effort of 5 to 6 years. European is slowly falling behind in the tech curve (apart from a few exceptions) and in 5 years, we may see more outsourcing of research to lower cost countries than now. My own company has 1000 strong R&D team in India, whereas they have only a few people in a handful of European countries, and my Company is a true blue European with a large part of revenue and presence there.
5. 5 years is a lot. Do it only if you enjoy the academic rigour and grinding that is needed.
6. PhD is also a very secluded course. My friends have found it tough to even find good friends on campus to share the emotional baggage with.
7. Finances may become a big part of whatever you do finally. 5 years of stipend is tough, when you look at the opportunity cost of it.

PS: I have been in middle east for a good half a decade, so i agree on the indian food.

You've addressed something that crossed my mind as well. But assuming that I do my PhD for 4 years (which is the maximum possible with funding), I suppose I still have time for 'settling down' fingers crossed offcourse. Also, since I am in the marine science / aquaculture sphere, the western world is still very much ahead of the curve at this point. But very interesting points about the realism of a PhD which are really useful, thank you. My best wishes to you and your wife.

Originally Posted by ads11

As someone about to defend my thesis Thursday (!),

Good luck with the defense Ads. I have attended quite a few PhD thesis defenses during my master's days and I understand how challenging it can be given how your entire life in the past 4-5 years or more will be under scrutiny.

Originally Posted by ampere

First aspect which comes to mind is beyond academics, a PhD usually is not career wise rewarding by-and-large (especially in India context). Biotech/Pharma etc. are the exceptions where it would be a must.
Most engineering jobs are very well handled by a good engineer with graduate or post-graduate skills.

Based on OP's case it looks like he is well settled in his career. So if his learning is stagnated he should look at non-PhD options. Or look at shifting to a job in EU and try hand at a external/part-time PhD with an associated problem. One need not sacrifice a well established and a sufficiently rewarding career.

But if he is looking to change course, I think it would open up a whole lot of uncertainty.

Originally Posted by noopster

Androdev's advice is spot-on: go to Europe and don't do a PhD

Europe is a much-preferred location to live and work than Dubai. If you feel you are stagnating at 25, with one year in, you can rest assured the feeling will only multiply by the time you are in your 30s and 40s. Focus on your area of expertise and shift to Europe with a job- that would be my advice!

Thanks. Indeed, I work in biological science (marine science and aquaculture to be more precise), so a PhD here is a lot more useful than say in engineering. I have certainly considered moving to the west without a PhD as well, but the primary thing that captivated me about this particular PhD is the topic itself (which I proposed). But if I reject this PhD, moving to Europe for a job would certainly be the next option. I don't think working in Dubai long-term can ever be an option.

Originally Posted by SulemanP

So in my honest opinion go ahead and complete your studies first if the situation allows you to do so cause later in your life no one will ask you to complete any degree and you may not have enough time in hand to address this issue…

Duly noted, especially in my field where positions crop up with the note 'PhDs preferred' Sure wish my field was as flexible as engineering.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

The decision to start a PhD or not is one that only you can make. And you're probably smart enough to decide what you really want to do with life.

I will only say this - Do not fall for the trap of "Oh, but I'd lose x years of experience/promotions/earnings compared to my peers in the corporate world". That line of thinking is so risk-averse that it prevents you from trying anything new. Playing it that safe in life will usually lead to long term regrets when you are older.

Ironically I was the youngest in my class during my masters. Even after finishing my PhD, I would still be younger than many of them are now.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

. 25 years is right age to check out options and take risks in order to make yourself competitive in your future employment prospects. Talk with your family and close friends who have taken the leap and decide.

Thank you, both my parents have taken the leap and want me to go ahead. I am the one holding back and asking questions despite my interest.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Thanks. Indeed, I work in biological science (marine science and aquaculture to be more precise), so a PhD here is a lot more useful than say in engineering. I have certainly considered moving to the west without a PhD as well, but the primary thing that captivated me about this particular PhD is the topic itself (which I proposed). But if I reject this PhD, moving to Europe for a job would certainly be the next option. I don't think working in Dubai long-term can ever be an option.

Now it becomes more clearer. So I can safely assume your day-to-day work is quite academic in nature and a PhD would help. But do note even in biological sciences its not an easy path beyond PhD and post-Doc to a good non-academic career.

So I would still suggest look for a career option to be close to a good college where you would like to move to (Say EU) and see if you can make a part-time PhD option work.

[jkrishnakj]

You’re 25. You have a clear head in your thoughts. Age is on your side. Do the PhD.

Remember , continuing to work now may not give the the Prefix of a Dr.

Fast forward 5-6 years and see how it feels to be a Dr at a young age. I’m sure you’ll be able to do work in parallel to your studies. And once you finish , it’s then a decision of what gets you going and it’s not that difficult to get back to corporates.

A corporate life isn’t all that exciting and if you already feel plateaued now , that feeling only gets worse with time.

Go with your heart. Follow your heart.

[Akash.D]

Go for PhD without thinking any further.

As someone who dropped out of PhD after 2 years to join a job (due to financial crisis in family and I being the eldest son) I would advise you not to miss this opportunity. If money is not a concern and you prefer the life of an academician, PhD is the perfect choice. As you have already experienced, job life becomes mundane after a few years and the learning curve flattens out. PhD on the other hand is a thrilling experience, everyday there is a new challenge, a new problem to be solved. People who enroll just for the sake of it cannot enjoy what PhD has to offer, but those few who enjoys it make it big. Seeing one's paper published in some high impact factor journal gives an adrenaline rush just like driving one's favourite car.

I could go on and on as I miss completing my PhD every minute every second of my wretched life. So, PLEASE go for PhD with your eyes closed.

Wishing you a lot of publications .

Regards.

[drrajasaravanan]

Hi
Wanted to cite an example of one of my friends. He decided on focussed research and quit his comfortable job to pursue PhD and 2 years down the lane though his progress was great it was stamped on by his so called mentors which frustrated him a lot. Luckily a German vaccine company became interested in his area of research and recruited him. He is presently working with the company for more than 10years and I can safely say happily settled. He never did attempt to finish his PhD or pursue it anywhere else.
IMHO, do your research, take risks early, accept failures but never lose the goal you have set for yourself. Your core skills and contribution to an organisation is more important than any degree.

[dragracer567]

Hi everyone,

In the end, I have decided to go ahead with the PhD.

I can't express how much I appreciate each and every one of your comments, constructive criticisms and your own experiences either for or against going ahead with the PhD. Your comments have been invaluable in helping me understand the stakes of going ahead with a PhD program as well as the inherent benefits. But in the end of the day, having a PhD in the marine science/aquaculture sphere is a huge benefit and at some point even a necessity. Moreover, I believe I can afford to 'lose' 3 - 4 years even if things go south. Also, I have overwhelming encouragement from my parents (both PhDs), friends, family and mentors (including my current boss).

Thank you all again for your comments and for taking the time. I really appreciate all your comments and I have taken note of each and every one of your views and advises.