[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by tanayr

I'm from C, my two cents:

First we'll talk about placements (the be-all and end-all for Indian schools)

1. Brand recognition is a subjective topic so we'll leave it at that
2. All IIMs have large batch sizes now post implementation of quotas, but not as large as the ~800 ish that ISB Hyd + Mohali combined have (remember, placements of both campuses are done as ONE batch)
3. Recruiters come to IIMs, select the top 50-60% of the batch and leave, they prefer to go to to other campuses than to hire the bottom half of the batch at higher ranked ones (for obvious reasons)
4. Freshers are king at IIMs, anyone with IT workex is worst-off. Since the candidate is not in either of the above two categories, we're going to assume that placements will be similar

Next, we'll talk about ROI

1. ~25 lakhs for ABC over two years vs ~32 lakhs for ISB over 1 year (check actual costs, I have outdated info)
2. Opportunity cost of one year saved at ISB, one starts earning earlier
3. As we already assumed similar placements, I'd say this one is a tie as well

Lastly, we'll talk about academics and entrepreneurship

1. ISB has a much more modern curriculum and better faculty
2. IIMs have the same stone age curriculum and laser-like focus on memorization and rote learning
3. I'd say ISB has a better environment for entrepreneurship, the IIMs are more like finishing schools for IIT and other college toppers meant to polish them for a corporate job

Net-net: If the candidate wants a regular corporate job, go anywhere. If the focus is more towards entrepreneurship, go to ISB (easier to get in, too)

Just keep in mind that after 3-4 years the b-school brand does not carry much weight, the work experience matters more.

I could not have put it better. A minor correction---ISB costs around 36 lakhs now for the one-year PGDPM. My daughter passed out last year, and she had paid a lakh less---this includes total fees and stay. She also spent another lakh on a new laptop, food, travel, etc.

She is a CA and had 3 years of work experience at Dell Financial Services, before pursuing PGDPM in ISB. She was in Mohali (where the bonding is better between the 300 students, when compared to the 600 in Hyderabad). The faculty is mostly common between both campuses, and placements are done at only ONE campus, without referring to the place --Hyderabad or Mohali.

She chose GMAT/ ISB path to IIMs via CAT because of the duration. INSEAD and foreign universities were 4 times as expensive, and we could not even think of those, especially because of tightening visa restrictions around the world---tough to make up that huge expense with an Indian salary.

But for someone with less or nil experience, IIMs may be a better option. Simply because of the longer duration and lower cost, the time spent in learning is longer. The longer you study a subject, the better will be your grasp over it. ISB is too hectic with its one-year course.

[AMG Power]

As an IIM B alumnus, I could be considered prejudiced for stating that IIM A, B or C are better than the rest. As the choice is between the IIM’s and ISB only, I would say the latter doesn’t command similar brand equity.

While recruiting, I would look at an IIM A B C and maybe even the other IIM’s over an ISB.

So, It’s IIM A B or C at the first level. And the other IIM’s and ISB at the next, give or take marginal differences.

[Raghu M]

The query is too generic. There is a lot of information required before anyone can comment. I would rate the IIMs (A, B, C) higher than ISB given the experience (3 years). If the candidate was more than 10 years experienced, maybe ISB would make a better choice. But like I said, there is very little information provided.

[lsjey]

I'm an IIM-B alumnus. MBA is all about acquiring breadth in knowledge and experiences. An international MBA is more advisable if cost is not a constraint. Between IIMs and ISB I'd of course recommend IIM-B

[batladanny]

If she wants to work in the startup/tech world in Bangalore, ISB grads seem to be looked up to quite highly. I am in this sector and ISB has developed a reputation for churning out quality, industry-ready professionals.

Here is a recent tweet from a senior product manager at Gojek

p.s. typical job profile is Product Manager at Google/Amazon/Flipkart/Gojek types or smaller but well-paying startups. Folks often start they own thing as well.

[MadiMaama]

I am in a similar situation to what GTO has posted. I am looking at PhD options between ISB and IIM A/B. I will be writing CAT and UGC NET in 2021. I have 5 years experience in the corporate sector. 1.5 years in auto sales and 2.5 in learning and Development. What should be the ideal score and where should I choose to do my research? Topic will be on the lines of marketing and strategy for automotive industry and Railways.

Looking forward to your advice

Ani

[Piyush19]

Hi GTO,

I gave CAT in 2020 and also have calls from some respectable institutions. For this discussion, I have assumed that the candidate has calls from both, ISB and BLACKI IIMs. As far as ISB is concerned, the candidate will do an Executive MBA at ISB, which essentially is to accelerate your career growth once you're with a strong hold of 5-7 years of experience. But IIMs are known for their flagship PGDM/MBA programs and provided their alumni reach, IIMs are ought to provide a wider perspective of experience of management in 2 years.

From the essentials in the query you posted, IIM A/B/C will be a better bet anyday over ISB as the candidate has a hold of 3 years in her bucket but if it were 2-3 years down the line, I would've recommended ISB.

Cheers!
Piyush

[Nitronium]

I'm from ISB, here's my take

It depends a lot on what career path your friend/relative wants to take

ISB typically has an average work-ex of 4.5 years, compared to IIM A/B/C where the work ex is between 2 and 2.5 years. As a result of this, the kind of roles offered vary significantly. ISB placement caters to slightly higher seniority (CTC correspondingly goes up) and offers direct reports from day 1 for middle/senior management roles

In terms of the kind of jobs available, IIM/XL/FMS/MDI/JBIMS are literally the ONLY places that leading FMCG companies recruit for their management programs, it's almost a legacy hiring practice. ISB offers fantastic access to consulting (25%), new tech and program management roles. Happy to elaborate further if anyone has more questions about this, but easily available resources online will help with this

ISB from the get-go has tried to differentiate in terms of faculty and diversity. Diversity in terms of cohort undergrad stats, prior sectors and % of women in the class. Personally, I never expected this diversity to have a major impact on my year in ISB, but it did tremendously shape the way I worked in group projects and broadened my views on problem solving

ISB has leapfrogged other institutions in terms of research output, which explains its very high global ranking score (#23 globally and #1 in India, though I personally don't give this too much importance). This has fantastic bearing on the quality of faculty and the cutting edge of management practices. The curriculum is worth the price of admission alone. It doesn't hurt when Raghuram Rajan himself unexpectedly casually walks in to teach us macro-economics

Happy to clarify more, but it comes down to what is realistically achievable:

Most Indians would kill to get into IIM A/B/C; being this hard to get into assures recruiters that they are hiring the brightest. ISB is more for candidates who have embellished themselves with more years in the industry or achieved great things in sport/dance/theater/science and want a world class MBA to top it off

I haven't spoken about ROI, because with salaries post MBA, a 4 to 5 year plan is feasible to clear the loan

And anyone causally asking candidates to look for options abroad has overlooked that a lot of us want to continue living and working in India

[Annibaddh]

Originally Posted by GTO

Someone I know is facing this dilemma and asked me for advice. I was earlier in the education industry, but my expertise was only in USA / UK schools and that too, I left the industry a decade back. Hence, thought of asking this question on the best platform I know for life in India .

Please advise on the pros & cons of ISB vs IIM. Brilliant girl, has 3-years experience at a major FMCG firm, wants to get an MBA not just for career opportunities but also the value of education + skillset. Long term plans not clear. Might continue in corporate world, might get into entrepreneurship. No budget issues.

We have a lot of talented young blood on Team-BHP, so I'm certain your answers will help hundreds of other BHPians too .

Thanks in advance!

Oh it's been a while since I answered this question! . To start with I graduated from IIMK, got calls from CLIK, converted I&K. Never considered ISB (it was still up and coming then). However have had a lot of colleagues and friends from most b-schools. And when my sis made the same decision a couple of years back my recommendation had not changed - to focus on IIMs and not ISB (she scored a 100%ile :/ little bugger stealing my thunder, and then refused to go to IIMK :O ).

ISB has excellent placements, is a shorter program and is now at par with IIMs on many parameters. However the one big difference is the 2-yr long rigour you put in and the opportunities that brings. Live projects, a full-size summer internship and most importantly more time to make an informed choice on which direction you want to pick for a long career. And trust me that choice is often made more on whims and poor understanding of the life that awaits you. Therefore living with the work you will end up doing long-term, just a little bit longer - particularly when you have the luxury of choice is a huge advantage. I cannot stress this enough. I have seen people pick marketing roles in FMCGs only to leave within 10 months and join IT again! Return to law after a few years and so on. Therefore more rigor and time at this stage is never a bad thing. Then there's the distribution of opportunities. All of the initial 6 IIMs, particularly ABC have opportunities that are very well distributed. The difference between median and top is not that stark. Not the case with ISB to the best of my understanding. And start of your career is another critical factor. Where you start influences how the rest of your financial careers will pan out to a massive degree.

So that's my tuppence.

[GTO]

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

In terms of brand and quality IIMA PGP is better than ISB PGP which in turn is way better than IIMA PGPX. IIMB and C will compete with IIMA and ISB on most parameters.

A lot of comments here talk about the archaic curriculum at IIMA or other IIMs which is definitely not true. IIMs uses a lot of cases that they have developed over time. IIMA has pretty much the greatest number of Indian cases ever written anywhere so the collective knowledge is better. ISB in my experience also uses cases from HBS etc so that part is the same.

In my experience, a two-year degree gives you a much better time to explore yourself and what you would like to do. ISB for example - by the time you finish 6 months in the system, placement season is on and you just get caught in the rush. Any two-year program gives you a summer internship to see if you like a particular sector and then act accordingly.

The cost of the program, lost earning are all immaterial in the long run. MBA is a terminal degree and a year here or there does not make a difference. That's primarily why HBS, LBS, Wharton are still 2 years MBA's. The 1-year program makes sense for people looking for a jump in the same industry or sector.

Alumni network is another factor where IIMA or IIMB wins hands down, ISB has done really well, but can't compete with IIMA/B in core sectors and IIMC in Financeat least for the coming few years. Just pick a few dream companies, and look at their senior management or boards and you will know what I am talking about.

All the best to her.

Anon

[tanayr]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

Allow me to drop in two more cents :
(We were always comparing the 1-year ISB PGP to the 2-year PGDM from the IIMs, just establishing baseline)

Archaic Curriculum:

• Sure, the IIMs have a giant bunch of cases. It is worth checking which companies those cases are about. Are they talking about the Teslas of today or stuff long gone?
• Cases form a part of the story. The rest is solid swotting, cramming and regurgitating, day-in and day-out. Relative grading, grades prominently displayed on CVs, consults and investment banks looking for Institute Rankers (IRs) - these IIMs are all old-school "ratta-fication" centers, do not let a few odd cases here and there throw you off into thinking they've moved into anything modern

Two Year degree vs One year degree:

• Neither 1 nor 2 years of MBA are sufficient for most students to make up their mind about which sector to go into
• Look at any batch from any IIM and you will observe more than 50% of the batch switching jobs within the first year after graduating. Why? Didn't like the sector - could not figure out where they wanted to go
• Finally, one has to consider that the background of a candidate BEFORE coming into an MBA program heavily influences the sector that he/she finally ends up in. Sector changes are hard, changing perceptions set in stone are harder still

Alumni Network:

• Yes so IIMs have more alumni, so, IN PRINCIPLE, this should help
• However this depends on how many connections one makes (down to how socially mobile one is?)
• It also depends on the comfort level in reaching out to alums over LinkedIn etc.

Finally, I'm going to talk about C being the so-called "Finance specialist" - the information in the above quote is heavily outdated. Not only are the specialized finance courses at C almost gone, with neither student nor professors interested in them, but ever since the 2008 bust-up, the financial sector hasn't been hiring much either, be it investment banks (early single digit recruitment per year) or others.


I reiterate: ANY of these colleges will be fine. There will be NO difference. The brand may work for a few years and by then one becomes knowledgeable, experienced and forms connections himself/herself. The brand then becomes an occasional conversation point, if nothing else.

[SansGT]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

IIM A
IIM B
IIM C
FMS
JBIMS
ISB
XLRI
IIM L
IIM I
IIM K
SP Jain
NMIMS
SIBM P
MDI
Great Lakes

Having completed my MBA not so long ago, I would beg to differ. This list may have been true once, but things have changed a lot. Some colleges have just run after profits instead of developing the educational foundation and are no longer what they used to be.
From my research and being in the system for 2 years, I believe the following list makes more sense now.

• IIM A
• IIM B
• IIM C
• ISB
• FMS
• XLRI
• IIM L
• IIM K
• JBIMS
• MDI Gurgaon
• SP Jain
• NITIE
• SJMSOM, IIT Bombay
• IIM I

[Horn-OK-Pls]

Amazing to see such evolved discussions on an off-beat topic that professional universities. Kudos.

As a background, have spent 30 years in marketing, communications, media, digital strategy and martech & adtech startups across India & APAC. Have hired, worked with & reported to some amazing teammates from both these colleges. As many mentioned, IIM (A, B, C) followed by ISB, then the JBIMS, FMS, XLRI and the others in no particular order.

Most important question... if one wants to build a career in India, the the above applies. Should one want to go out of India for a career, then look for campuses outside India. Based on one’s career choices, there are many ways of identifying the right schools to try & get into. YES... cost implications are there and must be taken into account.

After years of experience, one of the least used advantages of colleges is networking with alumni. Not many from Indian colleges take advantage of their amazing opportunity. Foreign institutions ensure that you participate & leverage this opportunities. For this apart from the badge value, I would recommend international campuses.

Cheers & good luck to your friend

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Had the exact same dilemma when I applied 3 years back.
I had 4.5 years of experience in auto R&D, and wanted to accelerate my career for money and a bit of visibility . I got placed in CKB in commodity sales (exact opposite to my profile and I don't regret that exposure) and now looking after their transformation initiatives.

Lucky to get placed in a company that had a lot of IIM fellows (we were the first batch of ISBians). Observed both the genres very closely on the working styles.

Some of my observations (not necessarily relevant):

1. Long term plans are never clear; neither are short term plans. Of the two, becoming a CXO is a plan which is constant. How in the short term will depend on you & competitors and the opportunity. So check for the learning and aspiration indurstry.

2. IIMs is a 2 year course with an internship where as ISB is a 51 week one. Yes 51 weeks is important. You gain a year of salary but then loose out on getting a diploma. ISB's certificate validity if you want to do a PHD is questioned.

3. ISB is pretty expensive at 38 l a year. + add 2 for other expenses like food, events etc. IIMs may be cheaper.

4. Profs are amazing at both places (A/B/C/ISB- not sure of tier 2 IIMs). Each college will have a few brilliant world-class fellows. Go through what they teach/reputation and your own interests. Mine was customer focussed product planning, which was taught by Prof Srinivasan for my batch. Sarnag Deo for Helathcare operations was another one.

5. Both the streams have their own strengths. So there is mutual respect as none of us is a master of everything. you will learn this in both the insititues. What IIMs give you is the time to go deep which ISB will not offer you. But ISB will offer you much more practically experienced peers. Both the institutes will teach you how to learn forever.

You can PM me and can have a chat with the candidate to help make the decision as per the needs and aspirations.

Cheers & all the best!

[prasi55]

My 2-cents, as someone who has helped students get into Masters and MBA programs and who tutors students for the GMAT/GRE:
If she already has 3 years of experience, then by the time she starts the 2 year IIM program, she will have 4+ years of experience. Instead, she could work on strengthening her profile and aim for the 1-year executive MBA programs at IIM (PGPM?) A, B, C or ISB (PGPMAX). The PGPM programs require one to be 27 or have 5 years of work experience at the time you start the program. The time can be used to prepare for the GMAT, improve one's profile, and work on the essays.
The 2-year MBA program at IIMs is really designed for someone who is rather fresh out of college. Given that she will already have 4-years experience by when she starts the 2-year IIM program, her peers will mostly be folks who have just graduated, that is, 2-3 years younger. Also, in our fast-paced world, a 2-year MBA seems a little overkill for someone who already has 3 years of work experience.
I personally feel an MBA makes more sense when you have 4-5 years of experience. You'll get more out of the program. I'd agree that ISB has a much more modern curriculum and that IIMs are more like finishing schools -- however, the value of these MBAs is more in their peer group and networking opportunities, which both ISB and IIM provide aplenty.

1. IIMs have the same stone age curriculum and laser-like focus on memorization and rote learning
2. I'd say ISB has a better environment for entrepreneurship, the IIMs are more like finishing schools for IIT and other college toppers meant to polish them for a corporate job