[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

There was already rift between Russian speaking rebels and Ukrainian locals in Ukraine. Now whatever happens, Russia will not take over Ukraine, but try to install a puppet government. Seeds of discord between groups in Ukraine have been sown and the two will be warring forever.. Hotbed of Terror has been prepared in Europe.

Either that or there might be a new Iron curtain across Ukraine (West vs East), and Warsaw Pact like re-alignment to counter NATO.

[SnS_12]

In Joe Biden’s words:

US forces will not engage in the conflict with Russian forces in Ukraine.

We are inflicting pain on Russia and supporting the people of Ukraine. Putin is now isolated from the world more than ever. He has no idea what's coming..

The man really thinks Russia has no solution or counter plan and all these sanctions will wipe out Russia financially...The truth is countries are growingly getting frustrated with US sanction threats and all these hard talks will really push bigger economies to think and set up alternate payment gateways..



India could take a lead on this as countries will be more comfortable adopting a system made by India then say China even Russia included...

India’s famous Unified Payments Interface (UPI), and RuPay can be introduced to more countries as the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI) has already announced the launch of a subsidiary for its international growth ambitions back in 2020. Will be interesting to see what role India will play in the global financial stage.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for expressing your views. They are somewhat differently aligned from my own and I fully respect your right to your perspective........ We clearly read different books.

A definitive and succinct answer to the various perspectives put forth in this debate. I still hold that the larger picture is very definitely grey and not the monochrome black & white that many of us would love to hold dear. Just that the grey is replete with variuos local colours that go on to make that grey. And arguing - our birthright as we all know! - over these shades ends up becoming tiresome semantics.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by SnS_12

... The truth is countries are growingly getting frustrated with US sanction threats and all these hard talks will really push bigger economies to think and set up alternate payment gateways..

OT:

It's high time the international community put sanctions on the US for the overt racism in its government services, and yes, I get the hypocrisy, but when has that ever stopped anyone? (especially, the US!) It would help highlight the plight of the underclass in the USA and also cut their ego down to size.

[dailydriver]

It is one of those moments in history when you can't really choose sides. Remaining Non Aligned is the best course of action that we as a third world country can pursue at this stage.

As for assigning the blame of war to either Putin or Zelenskyy, we would do well to remember that there are forces other than these two - seen and unseen - who are driving this war hysteria.

Any comment I think of making forcefully, will invariably involve drawing comparisons with and citing examples from my own country and therefore have the potential to be deemed political, controversial and even anti-national (to some).

Hence, please allow me to take recourse in two (more than a century) old poems and air my frustrations vicariously.

The first talks about a campaign gone wrong because of inept leadership, resulting in huge loss of lives. The second, a more personal narrative, shows how humanity is slaughtered in the midst of war.

THE CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE
-Alfred, LordTennyson

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honor the charge they made!
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Context: The Battle of Balaklava

x x x x x

THE MAN HE KILLED
- Thomas Hardy

"Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

"But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him as he at me,
And killed him in his place.

"I shot him dead because —
Because he was my foe,
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

"He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,
Off-hand like — just as I —
Was out of work — had sold his traps —
No other reason why.

"Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat if met where any bar is,
Or help to half-a-crown."

Context: The Second Boer War

PS: All emphasis mine

Also, the sooner the world realises that there are actually no victors in war, the better it would be for the future of mankind.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

In 1956 when Nehru, Tito & Nasser enunciated the doctrine of non-alignment it required vision and courage to do so. And it was the right thing to do at that time. The debate on this would go far beyond the scope of this thread.

Thanks for saying this sir. All the while I was reading about how India needed to make up our own mind on each issue and not just align blindly with either superpower/bloc, I was reminded of NAM.

(But these days it is just not done to recognize anything done by any previous government, especially Nehru's, as positive, so I didn't want to post that and feed the trolls! )

I guess there is a whole generation that has missed learning what NAM stood for and why it made sense during the cold war.

And how anyone can justify the US involvement in Vietnam and Iraq is beyond credibility. The good people of the US themselves were in a majority against those two wars. And here I guess it makes sense to distinguish between the people of the US and the people of Russia and the actions of their leaders.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by mvadg

OT:It would help highlight the plight of the underclass in the USA and also cut their ego down to size.

The American government doesn't really care about their own underclass citizens and the current inflation numbers are a proof of that and what they are doing to minimize the burden. The current head of Fed Jerome Powell himself said in one of this addresses lately that inflation always affects the poor more than it does the rich and still they are not increasing interest rates and continue pumping in money by buying assets. All this to keep the people who helped them come in power stay happy and richer.

Further, high inflation help country with high debt as inflation always helps the borrowers and hurts lenders. This is because debt servicing and repayment is not indexed to the rate of inflation. Speaking of debt the US debt has surpassed $30,000,000,000,000. That's $30 trillion...

A member of US Congress said this on NBC news channel recently that an average American doesn't understand what a Trillion $ is. I quote him "If an American spends $1 million every day from the day Jesus Christ was born he still won't be able to spend $1 Trillion till date."

This spending is over and above the government earns in taxes and other means and can the US tell the world where all this money is? As money cannot vanish and it has to end somewhere...

America's debt to GDP ratio is 124% currently (much lower than Japan though) but Russia's debt to GDP ration is under 20% currently. I understand the economics are totally different and America promotes its citizen and businesses to have more debt as its free money (0% interest) but that is coming to an end..

Hence, the Russia-Ukraine war is definitely going to lead to something big and only time will tell who did their homework well..

[joe1980]

I'm getting increasingly sick to read news like this.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/jour...dtv_topstories

This is what I call double standards. I hope that they realize that they themselves are being treated this way by the Russians and they understand what it means to be treated this way.

[Nissan1180]

This war is showing us the problems associated with digital and financial monopolies. Companies situated abroad can suspend services or terminate digital accounts unilaterally. This development will intensify efforts to localize the digital infrastructure.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

Also, the sooner the world realises that there are actually no victors in war, the better it would be for the future of mankind.

The 2001 movie, “Blackhawk Down” opened with Plato's quote, “Only the dead have seen the end of war.” with an eerie soundtrack in the background.

As long as there are human beings on this planet, wars will be fought. Being the forgetful species we humans are, we do not (or do not want to) remember the horrors of previous wars and are condemned to repeat it. We end up justifying the causes of war, instead of trying to prevent it!!!

Ignoring the jingoistic calls for taking PoK & Aksai Chin, this is where India has a higher standing than the other so called superpowers. India was the leader of the NAM, had the greatest apostle of peace on earth and has never invaded any country over flimsy/silly reasons. India can show the way to the world.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

... India can show the way to the world.

Sorry, as you yourself, and many others have pointed out, we are bound to repeat our mistakes. There's nothing special about India as we have discovered in the past few years - we have the same ugly tendencies as everyone else.
"Metal plate" is the only solution to the problems created and faced by humans

[deathwalkr]

Don't mind me, just trying to list out a few thoughts after going through this thread.

1) Ukrainian President is a western puppet?

2) A nation should surrender instead of fighting for what it thinks is right for it?

Just curious if any of the Ukrainians are voicing these concerns.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

this is where India has a higher standing than the other so called superpowers. India has never invaded any country over flimsy/silly reasons. India can show the way to the world.

Many Russians think this about Russia.

Many Chinese think this about China.

And as you have shown, many Indians think this about India.

The nature of humanity is that there is no country in the world that gets to take that kind of moral high ground. India is not an exception to that.

[navrddy]

I guess, Western media is on full swing propoganda.
What are the reasons why Russia considerations are not taken in.
I don't understand, why Ukraine did not agree to Russia requirement of not having NATO on its soil. I see a bigger misinformation campaign, at cost of innocent civilian life by Ukraine political setup.
Something is missing, it cannot be Russia is so foolish to do something like this.
Us and UK words cannot taken on face value, intension behind it needs to be probed.
Also I am not in favour of giving more arms to common people, see what happened in Afghanistan. For sure war is not solution, but I think there is bigger geopolitics gameplay here, cost is born by innocent lives.
Only way forward is peace delegation by neutral country.

[joe1980]

Originally Posted by navrddy

I guess, Western media is on full swing propoganda.
What are the reasons why Russia considerations are not taken in.
I don't understand, why Ukraine did not agree to Russia requirement of not having NATO on its soil. I see a bigger misinformation campaign, at cost of innocent civilian life by Ukraine political setup.
Something is missing, it cannot be Russia is so foolish to do something like this.
Us and UK words cannot taken on face value, intension behind it needs to be probed.
Also I am not in favour of giving more arms to common people, see what happened in Afghanistan. For sure war is not solution, but I think there is bigger geopolitics gameplay here, cost is born by innocent lives.
Only way forward is peace delegation by neutral country.

Exactly, would USA be complacent enough when Russia says it is setting up its military base near Mexico and other South American countries? I do not want to justify what Russia is doing in Ukraine, but I'm starting to ask myself what the root cause of the current conflict is and it points out to this very simple argument that NATO / USA wants its military base to keep Russia in check and Russia fears this.