[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by bhppower

It hurts to see such a beast destroyed. Not sure whether anyone will now manufacture similar one (after failure of A380)

It indeed does but there is hope as they plan to restore it and it would cost more than $3 bln and a long time to do it. With that kind of cost involved though it will need to make a strong business sense to do it. It was last restored around 2000, after it was grounded in 1994. So lets hope for the best.🤞

[WorkingGuru]

With reference to students being beaten up :

This is a warzone. Students should be happy to be alive & maintain behaviour based on the crisis around them, instead of being disorderly (viz what I'm assuming is quite likely the case here), & shrieking when chided.

Although I support Russia, and even I can realise the pain of local Ukrainians. Give the army a break. They've been forcefully separated from their loved ones while they fight knowing they're cannon fodder!

There are a few videos where students went across the country by car and were not frisked at army checkposts, simply because their car had an Indian flag.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by bhppower

With most social media companies control by anti russian countries there would be very less news coming from Russian side and progress they are making.

On twitter you will see same video of Russian armed force vehicles destroyed 100s of times and same video os russian captured soldier. So it seems a well planned social propaganda.

The well planned social media propaganda would make miniscule difference to the units fighting each other. Propaganda sure is advantageous but only when there is atleast some credence to what is being propagated.

There were enough fliers dropped through air when Bangladesh was liberated.
Those fliers worked because there was actual work being done and there was atleast some coherence between the info on fliers and actual ground situation. It resulted in 90k enemy troops surrendering famously. Just the fliers couldn't have produced the same result.

If what is being propagated through social media has atleast some coherence with actual ground situation, only then Russia could be jolted. Right now the numbers coming out may or may not be true. Also, Russia in itself is the big daddy of the propaganda games. They are way better in these tricks compared to seemingly tech savvy western powers.

USA, specifically, lets its technology decide the strategy, whereas it is vice versa for Russia.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

One of the biggest weapons in modern warfare is organized propaganda. That too in a universally accessible language like English. Both Russia and China lack that.

Rightly said - In War, first casualty is the Truth. You cannot trust any information coming through.
During 1971 Indo-Pak war, Gen. Yahya Khan would be drunk heavily. The state was continuously blaring that Pakistan Army is advancing in all fronts till one good day it declared that our forces have laid down arms in Eastern Front and following this, India has stopped its march into West Pakistan.

[v1p3r]

Like V.Narayan said, today we are all geopolitical experts.

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

1.) IMHO, Russia's invasion is not going slow at all. It's been what, 72 hours since the invasion officially started? The fight is already at the capital of the country with the 2nd largest country already captured. Moreover, from what I have read online (I am not sure about this one as I don't know much about armour ops), the terrain lying on the axes of invasion offers natural obstacles to any invasion force. Members who have armour experience (some of whom are active on this thread) can elucidate a bit on this aspect.

Compare this to the US invasion of Iraq and the time they took to reach Baghdad. Though I believe that it might not be an exact comparison as the Americans were supposedly using different tactics (more scorched earth?) than the Russians.

I had a long chat with my relatives, who occupied senior ranks in various armed forces. From what I understand, the US/NATO forces place a very high emphasis on human life (on their side). They are as cautious as can be, instead of reckless advances. That's why you see 'no soldier left behind' mottos across units. The Soviet/Russian/Warsaw Pact philosophy is to use the fresh/junior recruits as cannon fodder - they appear to be carrying mobile crematoriums. This has played the same way through history, and is continuing. That is why their failure, so far at least, to control all cities is telling. Russia expected a blitzkrieg-style advance to Kyiv, and seem to have not planned for anything else. There is also the huge issue of massive corruption in the Russian armed forces, all of which has been compounded by yes-men at every level, including right at the top. Stuff doesn't work as it should. The NATO forces often buy from independent private contractors whose quality reflects in repeat orders and stock prices, so there are much higher levels of reliability. I have actually seen this first hand, but that is another story for another time. Also, scorched-earth is a defensive policy, so you would expect the Iraqis/Ukrainians to use it. The Ukrainians are using it, when they blow up every bridge leading to Kyiv, Kharkiv, etc.

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

2.) Some accounts have been popping up about the deliberate mistreatment of Indian students by Ukrainian border guards due to the stance adopted by India at the UNSC (UN Security Council). I don't know if it just plain-old misinformation but very disturbing if true. I pray that better sense prevails upon the Ukrainians before hurting students who have no skin in the game.

The issue seems to be that the Ukrainian army is not letting visible non-Ukrainians (not white) out until all the Ukrainians are let out first. I don't know if that makes sense, or is racist. My gut feeling is if it's a question at all, it's the latter. This whole war is only important because white people are being attacked.

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

4.) The sheer scale of the disinformation campaign mounted by the entire west (Governments+major social media platforms) by either pushing fake news (the so-called Serpent/Snake Island last stand) or the suppression of news from the Russian side is dizzying and surpasses Pakistani propaganda witnessed in 1971 (Dawn publishing winning news on the day of(after?) surrender of Dhaka). This ought to prepare Indians of what may be awaiting us if we ever act contrary to the directions of the west.

Every single government and agency in the world, that has the resources to spread propaganda, does it. We routinely do it here in India, whether private billionaires - a poor orphanage lost their land for a fancy residential building - or political parties. If you are intelligent enough (like spies and diplomats should be) you'll glean the relevant details from the general conversations around you. The slight difference is that in a zeitgeist where there is reasonable freedom of press, you are bound to find things closer to the truth than you would anywhere else. The internet has helped tremendously. It is always the people inside the cage who can't tell - poor North Koreans still think the rest of the world is far worse off.

[khanak]

Urgent - Does anyone have any contacts over at AQCS Delhi to help Rishabh and Maliboo?

"I have my family members to take care of me. But for Maliboo, I am his whole family. Nobody will take care of him if I leave him here. Even if I leave him at a dog shelter, I am sure the shelter managers will run away to save themselves if attacks intensify. I have taken his responsibility, I will take care of him no matter what happens," he said.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaaHJ1NIgtb/

http://aqcsindia.gov.in

http://aqcsindia.gov.in/contact-delhi.html

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...952920147.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/89857241.cms

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by khanak

Urgent - Does anyone have any contacts over at AQCS Delhi to help Rishabh and Maliboo?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/89857241.cms

I would be really happy to be proven otherwise, but at a time when the dominant species is in conflict amongst its own, there may be literally nothing in the offing for other species. This is a war, a military conflict, not a civic disturbance or even an insurgency.

[khanak]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I would be really happy to be proven otherwise, but at a time when the dominant species is in conflict amongst its own, there may be literally nothing in the offing for other species. This is a war, a military conflict, not a civic disturbance or even an insurgency.

It seems that all that is stopping him from being able to take his pet with him is some paperwork from AQCS Delhi and not the fact that he isn't able to find a flight out or anything of that nature. Seems like AQCS Delhi should be able to solve this easily given that there is no war in Delhi atm. Other countries were letting Ukrainians flee with their pets. Unfortunately I don't think Indian nationals are allowed in as well.

[vinu_h]

Quite an impactful article. The man says, "It is not a couple of air strikes now". Lot of depth in that statement.

Started off as a campaign to secure a couple of parcels of land, looks like they won't stop till the country is theirs. Bit worrisome. It's all about optics today.

[ankan.m.blr]

Whenever wherever there is a war, it's the innocent citizens who pay the heaviest price.

[shancz]

On the OP, while I am not informed enough to guess what's happening in either of the two warring sides, but sifting through various info sources and past experiences here are some observations.

- Our stand at the UNSC is correct. National policy shouldn't change over what happened in a week but it's a matter of decades. Anyone interested further can see how the two states have voted at the UN on our behalf.
Geo-politics is complicated for any responsible country, like it should be and V.Narayan's post explains that well.

- In today's world with big tech/data and influences, media can be heavily manipulated to paint a very simple picture of a very complex situation by silencing opposing information, thus painting either side as good/bad.
My point being, if truly interested in the situation, it makes better sense to research further across various sources, know the history and the story behind any conflict/situation, before picking a side, IMHO.

Any act of violence harming human lives any side of the fence is unacceptable but should apply equally to all folks whether they're living in high-rises or the hinterland.
But easier said than done. A skyscraper billowing smoke in a metropolis makes disproportionately high media coverage and resulting voices than an old village home blown to bits.
Although in both cases the damage caused to human lives would be the same.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Like V.Narayan said, today we are all geopolitical experts.

IMHO, the thinking that only military veterans can discuss/question military affairs or only people with PhDs should comment on geo-politics is anachronistic in this day and age. Sure, the lay-person may be wrong most of the time in their assessment and/or conclusions but then so are many people who possess all the pre-requisites mentioned above. As long as the professionals are in-charge of the actual operations, I don't think there is any harm/foul to be had in discussing these things.

Also, scorched-earth is a defensive policy, so you would expect the Iraqis/Ukrainians to use it. The Ukrainians are using it, when they blow up every bridge leading to Kyiv, Kharkiv, etc.

I was talking in the context of the general definition of the term scorched earth which says

"A scorched-earth policy is a military strategy that aims to destroy anything that might be useful to the enemy. Any assets that could be used by the enemy may be targeted, which usually includes obvious weapons, transport vehicles, communication sites, and industrial resources."

Of course that scorched earth policy is generally applied by retreating forces but that need not necessarily be the case everywhere. The Russians have still committed their Air Force (and the RuAF possesses lethal fire-power from what we have witnessed in Syria). IIRC, US used high intensity air-strikes for a couple of weeks to completely decimate Iraqi infrastructure (civilian and military alike) before moving land elements in. Now I don't know if this eschewing of air power by the RuAF ties into your argument of a corrupt invasion force which has not planned for anything much other than a rapid advance centered solely around armour ops or rather a deliberate strategy which aims to minimise civilian collateral damage (as is witnessed by unarmed civilians bantering with Russian troops/columns of tanks stopping to let civilan vehicles go by/troops not engaging hostile Ukrainians etc.)

The issue seems to be that the Ukrainian army is not letting visible non-Ukrainians (not white) out until all the Ukrainians are let out first. I don't know if that makes sense, or is racist. My gut feeling is if it's a question at all, it's the latter. This whole war is only important because white people are being attacked.

I thought that the Ukrainians had drafted everyone of military age. So who exactly are they letting out apart from women/old people. Also, Poland had allowed visa-free intake for Indians (subject to conditions AFAIK). I have some some accounts from the ground which may become public very soon. I am afraid the public support that Ukraine has garnered among the general Indian populace may take a beating then.

Every single government and agency in the world, that has the resources to spread propaganda, does it. We routinely do it here in India, whether private billionaires - a poor orphanage lost their land for a fancy residential building - or political parties. If you are intelligent enough (like spies and diplomats should be) you'll glean the relevant details from the general conversations around you. The slight difference is that in a zeitgeist where there is reasonable freedom of press, you are bound to find things closer to the truth than you would anywhere else. The internet has helped tremendously. It is always the people inside the cage who can't tell - poor North Koreans still think the rest of the world is far worse off.

Try gleaning the truth when the book is written, printed and distributed by inimical forces.

This war holds a lot of learning lessons for the both the government and the general populace as to how 21st century Information warfare actually works. A respected member stated that no amount of disinformation can actually change what is happening on the ground. I agree. What a massive misinformation campaign may actually achieve is the complete de-moralisation of the genereal populace and thus turn the people against the government itself. I would not elaborate much on this and wise members may have understood as to how catastrophic this can prove to India in our adverse times.

P.S: As an afterthought, Indian students really ought to pay more sincere attention to GoI advisories in the future. None of this "Operation Ganga" circus would have been required if these students had followed the initial advisories of the GoI and gotten the hell out of Ukraine. Instead we saw all sorts of geniuses on TV channels pontificating on how "nothing will happen"/"Ukrainians are so welcoming" etc. Considering the numbers in which Indians are present in even the most unstable countries abroad, the government would go bankrupt trying to evacuate all of them in the event of disturbances in the area.

[fhdowntheline]

Incidentally, those who apparently hold themselves to higher standards on freedom of speech have disallowed information channels from other other side.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...els-rt-sputnik

[V.Narayan]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...orces-on-alert

By using the N-word Putin may, just may have over played his hand here. Nothing like the N-word to cause India and China to dilute their soft support for him. Nothing like the N-word to galvanize the Americans in full measure on sanctions, carriers, and what have you.

By talking about nukes - here he is indirectly referring to tactical nukes* - Putin may have inadvertently revealed that the conventional war on the ground isn't going as planned. Till this point it seemed to the arm chair general in me that Putin would get in quickly, teach Ukraine a lesson, install a puppet and move out quickly to retain some high ground. But you can decide when and how to start a war but you often do not control when and how it will end. Putin, to my mind, is losing the grip of directing where this war goes and might find himself stuck inside Ukraine with withdrawal a humiliation and staying put being a war of attrition - because that's what the Americans want to make it - a war of attrition that bleeds the Russians. The best way out is a very quick peace discussion while Putin still has face.

*for the benefit of those who may not be conversant with this term. A tactical nuclear warhead is a small, actually very small {by nuclear standards} warhead usually reserved for battlefield use or out at sea. It is delivered by a gravity bomb, short range missile, torpedo, anti-ship missile etc. Its warhead yield would typically be between 1 to 10 kilo tonnes of TNT equivalent. A strategic nuclear warhead i.e. a city destroyer, would carry a yield of between 100 kilo tonnes to 3000 kilio tonnes, usually stated as 3.0 mega tonnes. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was 20 kilo tonnes.

[download2live]

Let us not forget that there is that Nord-2 gas pipeline and German-Russian potentially "Dollar-diluting" deal angle too.

In fact some of the experts have said this was the real reason behind this war. As of now Americans have prevailed in getting that pipeline stalled. But for how long? It is complete to the extent that it is filled with gas. Just needs German approval and taps can be turned on.