[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Sran

Jorge Mario Bergoglio a.k.a Pope Francis of Roman Catholic church has said NATO may have caused Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. In an interview with the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera Francis says that Perhaps the "barking of NATO at Russia's door" facilitated the attack.

Ah, but as usual you've forgotten to mention the really interesting parts of the interview. Dear Papa says
"Ho parlato con Kirill 40 minuti via zoom. I primi venti con una carta in mano mi ha letto tutte le giustificazioni alla guerra."

which translates roughly to

'I spoke to Kirill on Zoom for 40 minutes. He spent the first twenty minutes with a paper in his hand reading out justifications for the war'.

He follows it up by saying "Il Patriarca non può trasformarsi nel chierichetto di Putin" which translates literally to 'the patriarch cannot turn into Putin's altar boy'.

If you comprehend context, this is a grievous assault on Kirill's character, or what remains of it. Altar boy can be replaced with lapdog, for a less ecclesiastical reading. The interview has excoriated Kirill and the war in general. Perhaps you lost some context in translation. Great advertisement for Zoom though!

Originally Posted by RadixLecti

Finally, Poland is one of the most staunchly Roman Catholic countries in existence; they would not thank you for excluding them from the fold.

I can assure you that they are very heavily Catholic, to the point where they sent this fellow Karol to Rome, and he stayed for nearly three decades until he died as Pope John Paul II.

[hangover]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Canopy

The war in Ukraine is also being supported by the Wagner group of mercenaries. Wikipedia describes them as Putin’s personal army.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

This type of private armies allow “democracies” to commit unspeakable war crimes.

It is not new. The good guys have also used blackwater and other groups all over the world.

Zelinsky may be right when he says that the Russians did the Bucha massacre.

Putin may also be right when he says the Russian army wasn’t even near the place.

Wagner probably did it.

[download2live]

Originally Posted by hangover

It is not new.

Civilians always pay the price.
And when the leadership decides to shift the theatre of war into streets and alleys (to make normal public human shield) then the price civilians pay increases manifold.

I feel for Ukraine people who are paying ultimate price for this geo-political game between Russia and US. No matter who emerges the winner, what is certain that people of Ukraine won't be one of them.

I can't see Putin backing nor can I see Zelensky allowed to back down by West. All I see is a long slow grinding war where people of Ukraine are suffering.

[Sran]

Originally Posted by RadixLecti

Finally, Poland is one of the most staunchly Roman Catholic countries in existence; they would not thank you for excluding them from the fold.

I was meaning to write England but maybe the night caught me or it was auto corrected to Poland. Whatever it was, be sure it was a typo.

Tbh, we are not taught enough about different sects or divisions in Christianity. Even in descriptions of greats like George Fernandes and superstar Vijay it is hard to find what christian denomination they belong to, the information is not readily available not even on google. Only with the advent of internet, I (we) learned about that there are many divisions/denominations within Christianity

But countries like Belarus and Armenia mentioned are non-catholic. How different are they from each other within their own sect i.e. orthodoxy can only be told by learned men like you. That sentence was meant to explore that there may be some inter-religious play going in furthering the unfortunate ongoing situation as mentioned in the interview and allegations by Pope towards Orthodox head Kirill.

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Ah, but as usual you've forgotten to mention the really interesting parts of the interview.

Very unfortunate allegation. I linked the article. I took what I found to be the most important part of the article about the ongoing conflict and that is how the war may have been started i.e. the reason behind the war. I did mention about supposed religious tiff, if you read. You are talking about allegations that one religious leader is throwing onto another religious leader. You took what you wanted.

[Foxbat]

When the Ruble had crashed to 135 per USD the worlds media ran front page headlines about its crash and the impending collapse of the Russian economy.


When it has recovered and is now at it's two year high there are no recent news stories(most articles are 1+ month old) on Google Search about its recovery.







Free Rules based and impartial media and internet?

[v1p3r]

Kudos, Foxbat, for actually talking about the impact of this war. It's rare on this thread.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

When the Ruble had crashed to 135 per USD the worlds media ran front page headlines about its crash and the impending collapse of the Russian economy.

The simple answer is that bad news sells more than good news. That's the media and headlines side of it.

The more complex answer is that the Russian economy is actually doing rather badly. The Bank of Russia (their RBI or Fed) has a stated aim of 4% inflation. That has now crossed 20%, and is nearing 24 depending on whom you believe. That is not a good sign.

Currency manipulation is a great tool. During the Cold War, the USSR maintained an artificial rate of 2 USD to every SUR. China kept RMB rates low for two decades to encourage exports. Now Putin has demanded that all payments from non-friendly countries (most of the world) be made in RUB, which has led forex punters to speculate that there will be a massive demand for RUB. That, in turn, has propped up the RUB price as there is a scramble to buy it. This level is supported by speculation, and oil and natural gas shipments. As the latter decreases, so will RUB's pricing.

The next question to ask is why such shipments will decrease. My semi-educated guess is that Biden is rallying bipartisan support for massive shale oil production in the US. While it conflicts with his climate agenda, it will spare the US consumers a heart attack, up from the heartache they currently face with $5+ gasoline prices, and prop up his approval ratings. GOP will love it anyway. He is already backchannelling to Venezuela, and will somehow get GCC countries back on his side. In the next two quarters, this will lead to a MASSIVE decline in Russian oil exports. Russians will face the same deterioration as Iranians did, in quality of life. That is not good news for Russia or its economy.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Free Rules based and impartial media and internet?

Free and impartial are not necessary the same thing. Media can be free and impartial, but it cannot be impartial without being free. Very rarely is the media impartial - NPR in your screenshot is possibly a good example of impartiality - but it can still be free to share its biased viewpoint (subject to certain legal limitations). When media is barred from sharing its views, then it ceases to be free. That is the difference between Indian and Chinese media.

As for the internet, well that's just clowns like me prancing about all day with their opinions.

[Foxbat]

Is the Pope a Russian agent? I think Vatican City needs democracy and a rules based order.




ROME⁠—Pope Francis said that the “barking of NATO at the door of Russia” might have led to the invasion of Ukraine and that he didn't know whether other countries should supply Ukraine with more arms.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/rus...ews-2022-05-03

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Sran

But countries like Belarus and Armenia mentioned are non-catholic. How different are they from each other within their own sect i.e. orthodoxy can only be told by learned men like you. That sentence was meant to explore that there may be some inter-religious play going in furthering the unfortunate ongoing situation as mentioned in the interview and allegations by Pope towards Orthodox head Kirill.

Highly unlikely that there is an inter-religious angle affecting this war. If anything, this just shows how irrelevant religion has become in Europe as neither what Pope Francis says nor what Patriarch Kirill says has any impact on what happens on the ground. Even within the Orthodoxy, the only sect that supports Russian actions is the Russian Orthodox Church which has unfortunately been intertwined with the ruling apparatus of Russia with Putin using his control over the Russian Orthodox Church to maintain his legitimacy as the leader (read Tsar) of Russia.

There is certainly a cultural divide between the Catholic (and Protestant) west and the Orthodox East but this doesn't manifest into a political divide in the modern era as the Greeks for example who are Orthodox are part of the western bloc.

[goacom]

Originally Posted by download2live

I can't see Putin backing nor can I see Zelensky allowed to back down by West.

It is indeed a shame that Zelensky is unable to back down and surrender to the Russian invaders!! It is also a shame that the Ukrainian population has been forced by the west to fight the Russians, instead of surrendering! I wonder if Mr. West (is that a person?) is somehow spiking the water supply in Ukraine to rise up and fight the Russians?

Originally Posted by Foxbat

When the Ruble had crashed to 135 per USD the worlds media ran front page headlines about its crash and the impending collapse of the Russian economy.

Cant trust the western media for not reporting or discussing the so called "recovery" of the Russian Ruble to the public that is in the dark about the failure of the west against Russia.. but....

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...cued-the-ruble

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2...tern-sanctions

https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...ms-2022-04-08/

https://theconversation.com/russian-...k-peace-181120

https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/ukrai...s-not-working/

and gazillion more articles on the recovery of the Ruble in the west....
https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+rouble+recovery

But yeah, the western media is hiding the information on the status of the Ruble from its people.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

ROME⁠—Pope Francis said that the “barking of NATO at the door of Russia” might have led to the invasion of Ukraine and that he didn't know whether other countries should supply Ukraine with more arms.
Source: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/rus...ews-2022-05-03

But then goes on to quote the bleeding edge of the "evil" American Capitalist Media source (Wall Street Journal) to back up his narrative! Can you make up your mind? LOL

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

When the Ruble had crashed to 135 per USD the worlds media ran front page headlines about its crash and the impending collapse of the Russian economy.

When it has recovered and is now at it's two year high there are no recent news stories(most articles are 1+ month old) on Google Search about its recovery.

Originally Posted by goacom

Cant trust the western media for not reporting or discussing the so called "recovery" of the Russian Ruble to the public that is in the dark about the failure of the west against Russia.. but....

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...cued-the-ruble

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2...tern-sanctions

https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...ms-2022-04-08/

https://theconversation.com/russian-...k-peace-181120

https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/ukrai...s-not-working/

and gazillion more articles on the recovery of the Ruble in the west....
https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+rouble+recovery


But yeah, the western media is hiding the information on the status of the Ruble from its people.

Thanks for confirming my point, here is how old the articles you have quoted:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...cued-the-ruble

1 Month

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2...tern-sanctions

10 days

https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...ms-2022-04-08/

1 month

https://theconversation.com/russian-...k-peace-181120

23 days

https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/ukrai...s-not-working/

1 month 5 days

and gazillion more articles on the recovery of the Ruble in the west....

not sure about this one .....

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Sran

- Tbh, we are not taught enough about different sects or divisions in Christianity.

- That sentence was meant to explore that there may be some inter-religious play going in furthering the unfortunate ongoing situation as mentioned in the interview and allegations by Pope towards Orthodox head Kirill.

Off Topic:
While I was surprised by your earlier post, I very much agree that we aren't taught about the divisions and classifications not just in Christianity, but also for Indic religions, whether they are 80% or a 20th of that. Let alone the spread and origins, not sure how many would even be able to name the broad and detailed samprayadas (denominations?) in the Indic religions, be it Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, or Jainism. On some fronts, we are a very poorly taught country; and that also reflects on the worldviews we form (including about ourselves). The more I read and explore, the more I realize this.

On Topic:
Till the time religion has influence, it remains a part of politics; typically more so in democracies. War, really is an extension of politics. So, while we may or may not see a very direct impact of what religious leaders say or do, their influence isn't meaningless.

To understand politics, any significant influence in a democracy shouldn't be ignored, as often only a few percent swing of votes changes constituency results, and a few constituencies results can change the outcome, or at least the stability.

In an autocracy, it helps the overall sentiment of what the leader and his group wish to do, thereby avoiding trouble and costs; such trouble coupled with external forces/influences can be a lethal force; at least potentially affecting stability and duration of an autocrat's rule.

Much of 'war' happens without overt weapons at battle lines.

[GTO]

Mod Note: No more posts on religion, please. Anyone who does will be restricted from posting on this particular thread.

@ BHPians: Request to please report (Report Posts : Contribute in Maintaining Team-BHP's post quality) any such posts.

Thanks for the support & understanding

[dragracer567]

An interesting piece of data from a Turkey-based OSINT monitoring site Oryx. Basically, they collect the information on losses of vehicles (the photographs are provided as well) and only the vehicles for which photographic evidence exists are counted.

Russian losses in the war.

Ukrainian losses in the war.

Overall, Russia has lost 3,444 vehicles consisting of 608 tanks, 349 AFVs, 674 IFVs, 108 APCs, 25 MRAPs, 102 IMVs amongst other pieces of equipment.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has lost 987 vehicles consisting of 149 tanks, 88 AFVs, 108 IFVs, 50 APCs, 87 IMVs amongst other pieces of equipment.

The 'losses' include those destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured and I must stress that only the equipment for which photographic evidence exists is counted, so the real numbers could be much higher. Ukraine's losses are much lower but offcourse, they only had so much to lose in the first place.

This really has turned out to be a nasty war. As per some estimates, Russia has lost more soldiers and equipment in 60+ days of war in Ukraine as they did in a decade of war in Afghanistan. Even for a military with a high tolerance for attrition as Russia, this rate of loss is untenable.

[skanchan95]

An Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate (Krivak IV) of the Russian Navy Black Sea Fleet - Admiral Makarov is reportedly on fire near Zmiiny island in Black Sea. All of this in the background of rumours that US Navy Poseidon was flying over Romania and provided targetting information to sink the Moskva.

Rescue operation ongoing, multiple aircraft, rescue vessels in the area. If true, could be another successful strike by Ukrainian Neptune missile(s) and add another humiliating loss for the powerful Russian Navy that is losing ships to a country that does not even have a Navy anymore!!!

Krivak IVs are advanced stealth frigates that the Indian Navy has on order with Russia and are an improvement over the Talwar/Krivak III class frigates operated by the Indian Navy.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Overall, Russia has lost 3,444 vehicles consisting of 608 tanks, 349 AFVs, 674 IFVs, 108 APCs, 25 MRAPs, 102 IMVs amongst other pieces of equipment.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has lost 987 vehicles consisting of 149 tanks, 88 AFVs, 108 IFVs, 50 APCs, 87 IMVs amongst other pieces of equipment.

This is great news for the Ukraine!. Thanks for sharing. Kudos to Ukraine for giving what seems to be a crushing defeat to Russia.

The only thing which doesn't make sense is : Why is one third of the country (most of Donbas, Mariapol, Crimea etc) under Russian occupation? Most of the black sea coast & the Azov sea coast is under Russian occupation.

Hopefully we will not see a war in which Ukraine wins comprehensively (according to sources like oryx) but all of the territorial & strategic gains are made by Russia. That would be really counter intuitive unless this information is fabricated or misleading