[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

Problem is not the costly labor in India but lowest possible salaries being offered by IT companies for onsite positions in US & Other regions.

...

I know many of my onsite folks are getting salaries in range of 85 k to 95 K USD which is nothing IMO for a guy with 15 Years of solid experience. Heard big three even pay less in range of 60K to 70 K.

+1 to this.

Recently spoke to someone who's spent about 6+ years over there. She's been ~14 years in that firm (total of 16+ years of experience). She is getting paid about 100k CAD in Toronto, and her salary in US till a year back was equally low. Key reason was her being on L1 (US) and work visa (Canada) that didn't allow her to switch companies.

[SolitaryRabbit]

This is a little old article but very interesting read:

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/ft...just-34-hours/

In 2020, on an average CEOs of top 350 firms in the US made $24.2 million. That is 351 times more than a typical worker as per EPI.

[Nature&Me]

I am part of one job search telegram group. Earlier, I saw members posting their technical issues and what they tried to resolve that. Now, I see members posting below queries.
Scenario: I got selected in abc, def, ghi, jkl, mno (companies) and they are offering me x, x+2,x+2+50k joining bonus, x+4 (x being a salary offered with hike)
Query1: How I can negotiate with company which offering x+4 which is highest among all.
Query2: Will the company (other than the highest paying) will negotiate?
Query3: I can join in 2 days, do you have opening which can pay the highest other than mentioned companies.
This is the new routine. Now, very few ask about work culture, technologies used, facilities and work-life balance.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by dextor

People are now out in the market searching for job not because they want change but because they heard that people are getting tremendous hikes.

So true and this is common among folks with 2-12 years experience. Somehow folks with 14/15+ years who have seen two recessions(2008/09 & 2020) are not really all that confident if it’s sustainable. 2020 one was shortlived so folks who started career post 2010 haven’t really seen the bloodbath.

Originally Posted by dextor

We can think it as unsustainable or a temporary phase but is it really so?

Is this sustainable? At the moment no one can answer. Till there is demand, this will go on.
Will demand remain for long? Depends on what the organizations are able to achieve after going online.
Going online adds to business? May be. If pandemic strikes again, this will be the saviour.

But this might not end here. Driving business online is not a one time activity. It keeps on going - maintaining the systems, upgrading, adding new functionalities etc etc.

Well even if you are online its not necessary business would thrive as you need customers spending as well. This time around the race was to go online, hence the hiring. Another lockdown (god forbid) & we will get to know if this investment actually pays off.

Originally Posted by dextor

A worrying statement I heard sometime back when one of my know person rejected onsite offer telling that he is earning better compared to what he will get in US.
India is no more a place of cheap IT labour :-)

This is pretty common these days. Infact I am in a dilemma myself currently. Money is no more a driving factor for moving abroad. Better pay used to be a no-brainer earlier but now its more about other things like cleaner air, water , better traffic sense etc for choosing west.

[Mr.Ogre]

What's wrong if an employee is out in the market trying to get the most for his experience/qualifications? I changed jobs twice in the last year and a half, and if things go as planned could be changing again within a year or two. The market is very good for people in IT especially for people who have kept themselves updated with time and did not become complacent.

Even though the job market is hot, that does not mean you get picked if you do not possess the required skill set and aptitude. You still have to prove yourself in the interviews - sure there are few cases that slip through this screening process, but all I am trying to say is there is nothing wrong in making hay when the sun is shining. Nobody said anything when the businesses were making record profits, but the appraisals rarely kept with that trend.

In one of the companies that I worked before the annual appraisal was hardly 3-4 % and if someone came from outside 25-30% was minimum hike they got. Plus the promotion process was too convoluted even though you were already doing the job for which you are trying to get promoted. Simple solution was to go out, and come back in again after a year with a good pay and better designation.

To put into perspective the current unemployment rate in Australia is at its lowest - around 2 - 3%. Businesses are finding it hard to get the right talent. If I possess a certain skillset that is in demand now, then I think I wont be doing justice to myself if I am not taking advantage of this situation. Sure things will return back to normal, at least I wont feel like I did not try.

[am1m]

We're a small company and we've signed on some big clients recently, so we have the work and need people to do it. Till last month, we were in a ramping up mode, getting ready to hire more people. In fact over the past few months we've seen a few key people leave too. Yet yesterday we've decided to freeze all hiring for a few months to wait and see what happens. So, something's definitely going on.

Personally, I'd avoid getting into debt right now (especially for luxuries like a bigger car/bike or a holiday) and would re-evaluate any offers from non-established companies that might seem too good to be true.

[dragonfire]

Salil Parekh takes home a 88% hike

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...m-8579611.html

TCS CEO however takes home a more modest 27% hike

https://www.newindianexpress.com/bus...8-2455801.html

But all this after giving single digit hikes to its employees.

The job market is presenting an opportunity for us employees. It would be foolish not to use it.

[pkk077]

While we are talking about impending pay cuts, please do remember that nowadays stocks also form a substantial part of the package and with most listed companies down anywhere from 20-80%, there is already a correction in salaries. Add to it the inflation and if you don't get a hike for couple of years, that would be as good as a significant pay cut.

[electro-monk]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

+1 to this.

Recently spoke to someone who's spent about 6+ years over there. She's been ~14 years in that firm (total of 16+ years of experience). She is getting paid about 100k CAD in Toronto, and her salary in US till a year back was equally low. Key reason was her being on L1 (US) and work visa (Canada) that didn't allow her to switch companies.

Originally Posted by SoumenD

This is pretty common these days. Infact I am in a dilemma myself currently. Money is no more a driving factor for moving abroad. Better pay used to be a no-brainer earlier but now its more about other things like cleaner air, water , better traffic sense etc for choosing west.

+1 Having been in the same boat myself recently, I endorse this.
Since last decade, I think it was well known that Europe is not a place to make money. Now with growing compensation in India, outsourced software engineers are finding that North America too has entered the hallowed list of places that offer good life but not good money.
Having said that, as I agree that this is a generalisation and actual scenario depends on case to case basis.

[Captain Slow]

Today I interviewed a junior guy has about 1 year of very basic experience. His Last employment date was March of 2021.
He was getting x salary - We offered in 2.5x of what he was getting back in 2021. But he wanted 3.5x.

I don't understand this market - He has not worked from march of 2021 - what makes him think he is worth so much?

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

what makes him think he is worth so much?

Delusions of grandeur

I was interviewing a fresher last month (he had few months of non relevant experience) and he was asking for 2.2x salary, fixed working hours, and work-from-home option from day 1.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

I was interviewing a fresher last month (he had few months of non relevant experience) and he was asking for 2.2x salary, fixed working hours, and work-from-home option from day 1.

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

He was getting x salary - We offered in 2.5x of what he was getting back in 2021. But he wanted 3.5x.

OT Question to you guys - was the 2.2x or 2.5x salaries you offered to the candidates in the range of salary asked by peers at that level? Basically how far away where you guys from the market levels for that experience /position?

Wondering how it looks from the interviewee's point of view. Also it helps to put actual numbers (although I guess not everything can be shared).


A friend had interviewed a MBA grad with about 3-4 years of experience and offered him 15L (existing salary 11+). He got another offer of 18L and asked my friend for a counter offer. While they were still working it out, he then got a 3rd offer for nearly 25L, who were desperate to get him as he could join him immediately. My friend told him to go ahead - his HR didn't agree to match that (basis the argument that they can't approve ~2.5x salary)

Both my friend & his HR knew he was underpaid in his current role and there were others in that expected salary range (at that job band) and yet the above happened.

[black12rr]

Originally Posted by Nature&Me

I am part of one job search telegram group. Earlier, I saw members posting their technical issues and what they tried to resolve that. Now, I see members posting below queries.
Scenario: I got selected in abc, def, ghi, jkl, mno (companies) and they are offering me x, x+2,x+2+50k joining bonus, x+4 (x being a salary offered with hike)
Query1: How I can negotiate with company which offering x+4 which is highest among all.
Query2: Will the company (other than the highest paying) will negotiate?
Query3: I can join in 2 days, do you have opening which can pay the highest other than mentioned companies.
This is the new routine. Now, very few ask about work culture, technologies used, facilities and work-life balance.

Unable to PM you, could you drop a PM to me , thanks .

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

OT Question to you guys - was the 2.2x or 2.5x salaries you offered to the candidates in the range of salary asked by peers at that level? Basically how far away where you guys from the market levels for that experience /position?

We don't normally hire freshers from this stream (in this case Mechanical). Otherwise salary for fresher is sligtly above this range and we were going to offer 2.5x anyway.

It is the other two points put us off. We had to train fresher for 6 months-1 year to make him/her productive. What do we do if a fresher demand permanent work from home? We ended up hiring an experienced person.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Today I interviewed a junior guy has about 1 year of very basic experience. His Last employment date was March of 2021.
He was getting x salary - We offered in 2.5x of what he was getting back in 2021. But he wanted 3.5x.

I don't understand this market - He has not worked from march of 2021 - what makes him think he is worth so much?

I know of people who have chained offers together - Get an offer from Company A with 50% hike, then get an offer from Company B with an 50% offer on the Company A offer, and then do the same again with another company C. Together he was able to get a 3X hike - Went from 3L to 9L the first time he jumped at 2 years, and then 9 L to 27L the second time at 4 years. They probably have an email offer (but no formal offer document) or an NDA of some sort.

I did not think it was possible, but I know for a fact this happened. HR's are being pretty aggressive with recruitment and throwing away money chasing resources. I'm thinking of going back into tech after seeing all this