[vishnurp99]

Long time back there was a lot of discussion around the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the role of US in it. This popped up on my feed today. Essentially Seymour Hersh has come out with a detailed report on how the Nordstream pipelines were targeted. Apparently United states & Norway did it.

For people who don't know Seymour Hersh, He is a highly reputed 85 year old journalist with a track record of uncovering stories which have been proven to be accurate over time. He has a bunch of journalism awards including Pulitzer, polk, James orwell etc.

Examples of stories that he uncovered
1. Mylai Massacre Vietnam
2. Torture of Iraq prisoners at Abughraib

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/...he-nord-stream

The story is really detailed and I am just thinking about implication on Europe if this turns out to be true.

[extreme_torque]

Can someone detail what the implications could be? Will it escalate the war? My knowledge about this is very limited.

[vishnurp99]

Top of mind implications if it's true.

1. Damage to German-US ties. There is an undercurrent of anti-us sentiment and once this story spreads, that sentiment will become stronger. Note that right wing sentiment is already strong in many parts of Europe
2. Russian retaliation against Norway & US. Norway pipelines are an easy target if they really want to take it out.
3. Loss of credibility of US Government with it's citizens. Note that for each of Seymour Hersh's earlier stories, the Government issued denials initially.
4. Powers like China may use this to beat up USA's claims of democratic traditions & values.

USA cannot have this story come out!.

[Samurai]

This is a real scary article. This can move the geopolitics in a very different direction. Can't call it conspiracy theory considering who wrote it. He has too much credibility.

His reasons to use substack is not surprising. Main stream media wouldn't want to publish this story.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Can someone detail what the implications could be? Will it escalate the war? My knowledge about this is very limited.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that the basis of NATO itself will be shattered.

[speedmiester]

Well, is anyone surprised that US is behind this attack.

Russia is not a fool to attack it's own pipeline and no European country wants their energy supply affected by attaching the key pipeline irrespective of their differences with Russia.

The article is telling of how America undermines every country whether it's a friend or a foe.

[deetee]

Though the journalist writes revealing article now, there were several news articles (a few weeks after the event) that point fingers at USA for masterminding the Nordstream destruction. As such this may not be hugely sensational as it appears to be. I don't think Russia will react too much to this piece, am sure they would have already known that USA was behind this.

[DigitalOne]

I doubt that this report will have any serious implications. Though this report is the most detailed one of the "America destroyed Nordstream" theory, the theory itself is not new.

It has been in public domain for quite some time and other independent (i.e not beholden to US Democratic party) journalists like Glenn Greenwald (of the Edward Snowden fame) and Tucker Carlson have alluded to it, and have been promptly branded as "Russian Propagandists" by the mainstream media.

GLENN GREENWALD: How many things have been blamed on Russia over the past five or six years by the western media, by the EU, by neoliberals and deep state operatives that turned out to be completely false? They even invented a conspiracy theory. You probably remember that Russia had some super-secret hypersonic weapon that was causing brain damage in American diplomats that nobody had ever heard of before, and it turned out to be debunked even by the CIA. Why would Russia explode their own pipeline that gives them enormous amounts of leverage?

They can turn off that pipeline any time that they want, which gives them exactly the power that they most want. I don't know who did this, but what I do know is that a state could only do this, but also the U.S. has been obsessed for years going back to the Bush administration with trying to bully and coerce and persuade the Europeans not to buy natural gas from Moscow, but to instead buy it from the United States. Donald Trump, while he was being called a Putin asset or blackmailed by the Kremlin, was one of the leaders in badgering the Germans saying we pay you for your defense, you should be buying natural gas from us, and now suddenly the pipeline blows up in the middle of this war, and we're going to blame Russia for that?

Source: Fox News

Source : Tucker Carlson (Fox News)

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

I doubt that this report will have any serious implications. Though this report is the most detailed one of the "America destroyed Nordstream" theory, the theory itself is not new.

Because it is so detailed, and because of the credibility of the author, now it would be accepted as the real story. That will force EU leaders to react officially. But what are their options?

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Because it is so detailed, and because of the credibility of the author, now it would be accepted as the real story. That will force EU leaders to react officially. But what are their options?

From a quick look at the various news sites, Germany, Netherlands and most of the European main stream media is ignoring the report completely. Couple of UK news media has picked it up.

I would also watch out for the US domestic ramifications once the news spreads out widely. It's clear that congress was bypassed from decision making for something that is essentially an act of war. The president & the federal government has essentially lied to the people too.

Now coming to Russia, I think there will be more pressure on Putin to retaliate. I don't think he will do anything immediately. They will wait for the Ukraine situation to stabilize but this episode could be used to drive a wedge between USA & Europe. It will be interesting to see they deal with Norway.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Because it is so detailed, and because of the credibility of the author, now it would be accepted as the real story.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I would also watch out for the US domestic ramifications once the news spreads out widely.

I am not holding my breath .

Today, there were attempts by Wikipedia trolls to label Seymour Hersh as a "Conspiracy Theorist" before it was edited out.



CNN/NYT/MSNBC/Pre-Musk Twitterati followers will have one version of the "real" story, and Fox/Post-Musk Twitterati followers will have another version of the "real" story. The true real story shall never be known. Who killed Kennedy ?

[Simha.k]

Hear me out!

Why is it even surprising to know that USA is behind the sabotage of the Nordstream!? Did we all not know it right from the start? Well, at least where I live and work, it was extremely evident and clear from day 1 that USA bombed the gas pipelines.

I am not sure if it has been ever mentioned on this forum about the rise in utility prices here in Europe. Let me narrate what citizens in Europe are going through.

Right after the war broke out, the natural gas prices started shooting up to dizzying heights. Every energy company here jacked up the prices like crazy. You will not believe it if I told you that many people who get peanuts as pension from the government have all defaulted on payment of the utility bills. The bills simply multiplied overnight and this was the hot topic of discussion at office coffee and lunch breaks. We all end up discussing how much each other's bills have gone up by. I am still waiting for annual settlement of utility bills for last year and I am very well prepared for a rude shock. However, energy companies are posting record profits year after year. But you and I who earn a living wage must fill up their coffers with our salaries.

There has not been a single day that my fellow colleague who sits across my table has not cursed the US and the NATO allies for fuelling the war in Europe's backyard. Mind you, this is coming from a person who was born during the Soviet occupation of this country, learned Russian in school, hated the Russians, saw the fall of communism and then got attracted to the western ideology and later started questioning NATO's decision to be involved in mindless wars in the middle east, sending troops to unheard of and godforsaken countries to now hating the USA and its policies! He has been ranting and crying for being involved in a pointless war where normal citizens like us have to bare the cost of war by paying super high prices for utilities and energy. All of this for who to benefit? You guessed it. USA. It has directly impacted the industries and the jobs here in Europe. Influx of refugees, super high rent, super high demand for housing, education and medicine and the list goes on. On the other hand, America is happily grinning sitting 10000km away on the other side of the Atlantic and watches the show go by. America wages the war, Europe pays the price.

USA arm twists its own partners and it believes it is the moral obligation of the NATO members to buy energy from them at 3 times the price of that of Russia. How much lower can they go? Their govt is run by a bunch of filthy slimeballs who are out there to protect its own interest. America has no permanent friends or foes. Only permanent interests.

[Nissan1180]

For all the US/Western EU talk about freedom of speech and expression, it is not surprising to see that this news has been suppressed on all social media platforms. If you share this link, it gets removed.

It doesn’t look like people care anymore- there’s too much chaos everywhere.

[V.Narayan]

"To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.” - Henry Kissinger

As honest confession by Henry Kissinger!!

Thank you @vishnurp99 for sharing this link. Many suspected this as there is no sane reason for Russia or Europe to have blown up their own infrastructure. One more dirty action of subterfuge, lies and con man ship by the American Govt.

Some may know that the atomic bomb was developed jointly by UK & USA in July 1945 during World War II. The project was set up in USA as UK was vulnerable to bombing by the German Luftwaffe {Air Force}. At the time the project team was set up in 1942 UK by far was the world leader in nuclear research, USA was the laggard! USA said to UK let's do this together and own the fruits of our efforts. To be fair the massive industrial effort behind the creation of the bomb was all American as was the funding. Once the project was complete after the first explosion in Arizona and subsequent bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Americans point blank and most brazenly refused to share any documentation with the British and sent the UK scientists home empty handed. This to their closest ally! What can the rest of us expect. UK then restarted from step one and developed their own nuclear bomb in October 1952.

Similarly in 1964, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a completely false and fabricated piece of Government sponsored journalism that was used to justify USA's full time entry into the Vietnam conflict and turn a border rumble into the biggest war {from a bombing point of view} the world has ever seen before or since.

America is suffering from the malady all empire's get to after a point - the curse of over reach. They are, like UK at the turn of the 20th century, trying to be the supreme power at all times at all place simultaneously and as we have seen fought continuously for 20 years from 2001 to 2021. They are driven by the paranoia that no other country should become more powerful than the US of A even in some one corner of the globe. This paranoia could, maybe, drain their economic and cultural/social energy. The violence they beget outside is the same seed that has made them, domestically, the most violent democratic country with high incarceration rates and homicide rates comparable to Zimbabwe, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan etc.

The Western media will pretend this did not happen. The Americans because they have their vested interest and the Europeans because they are simply too weak.

This Ukraine conflict isn't shutting down anytime soon. USA's military-industrial complex needs a war and was missing one since Afghanistan closed down in August-September 2021.

This is why India very wisely treads a balanced line between USA and China on one hand and USA and Russia on the other. We want to/ need to be economically close to USA while being very aware that a belligerent World nos 2 is literally on our doorstep.

I'll end with another quote from that crook Kissinger -“Empires have no interest in operating within an international system; they aspire to be the international system.” - that is USA's problem. It will lead them to trouble as surely as it led to the demise of the British empire.

[sagarpadaki]

I read the article. The actual operation of destroying the pipelines sounds straight out of a Call of Duty game mission!