[Thad E Ginathom]

I is also a conversational form in English.

"I'm cold today. Why? Because rain has brought low temperatures!"

It might sound like "why-because", but, in English, it isn't really. It might explain why you may sometimes hear this even from non-Indians.

[vasoo]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I is also a conversational form in English.

"I'm cold today. Why? Because rain has brought low temperatures!"

It might sound like "why-because", but, in English, it isn't really. It might explain why you may sometimes hear this even from non-Indians.

That's a good reason. But we Indians don't learn English from native English speakers nor do we get a chance to listen to them often. We typically think in vernacular language and then use a "mental real-time translation" to speak it in English which will naturally be in "desi ishtyle".

[Ravveendrra]

Interesting, there are two possible sources for the Why - because.

One is the rhetorical why, as in "Why? Because ....." that Thad and I think is the probable source.

The other is the "Kyon Ki" or "Enduku ante" or "Edukku ana" of Indian languages, that Vasoo and Raja think was translated badly into Why because.

Let the debate rest as it is impossible to pin-point the source with any degree of certainity.

[carboy]

My favourite Indianisms.

- What is your good name -> which makes no sense in English, but is a direct translation of "Aapka Shubh Naam Kya hain".

- Prepone -> this isn't really an English word. This is a word we have made up. The English say "bring forward". However, I find this to be a good addition to the English language.

- Calling someone Mr. Firstname -> Mr. is usually supposed to be used only as
Mr. First+Lastname or Mr. Lastname, not as Mr. Firstname.

- In Bombay, people who don't speak English regularly use "Marketing" in Hindi/Marathi sentences to mean "Going to the Market to buy stuff" - "Main Marketing karne ja raha hain".


- Similiarly, in Bombay, "Facing" instead of "face" -> "Madhuri ka facing solid hain, boss."

Any oldies from Maharashtra remember Chimanrao's abscense letter in English to his boss when he gets infected by conjuctivitis.

"Sir, my eyes have come. Hence I cannot come to the office. When my eyes go, I will resume work".

In Marathi, the word for eyes is "Dole" and getting conjuctivitis is called "Dole Aale" which means "Eyes have Come". So Chimanrao's translates the same into English.

Anyway, who cares - we should be proud to use our own dialect of English just like the Americans have done.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Oh, you law guys speak a strange, strange language!

Yeah, lawyers are probably most guilty of doing this, but I think a lot of professions have their own language & conventions.

For eg.
1) Software Guys
- "It's transparent to the user" means "This will happen under the covers, the user will not know about this or be affected by it at all".
- Recursive abbreviations & acronyms are almost unique to the software profession
GNU stands for GNU not Unix
WINE stands for WINE is not an Emulator.
BING stands for BING is not Google.
- "I don't have the bandwidth to do this" means "I don't have the time to do this".
- luser (pronounced loser) - user of your software.

2) Doctors
- The patients symptoms are Idiopathic - means - the doctor has no clue about what is wrong with the patient.
- voiding - means to urinate
- Iatrogenic - this means that this guys condition was caused by a doctors treatment.

[Ravveendrra]

Many Indian parents are guilty of putting their children to sleep. Yes, infanticide might be on the rise in India but this is not what they meant when they said "I put my son to sleep".

I would not put even my dog to sleep, how can you do it to your child!

"Put to sleep" means - to kill.

The right phrase is "Put to bed" for what you do every night i.e. tuck him into bed and read him a story till he nods off. Or if you are like me, till you nod off and he gets up and starts playing with his toys .

Cheers,

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by carboy

... my eyes have come ... getting conjuctivitis ... "Dole Aale" which means "Eyes have Come"...

Err.. aah.. umm.. Aah OK, duh! My senile mind was thinking it had something to with the substance that the eyes discharge!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by carboy

- Prepone -> this isn't really an English word. This is a word we have made up. The English say "bring forward". However, I find this to be a good addition to the English language.

Prepone is a lovely one. It would be perfect ---if only there was such a word as "pone"!

- In Bombay, people who don't speak English regularly use "Marketing" in Hindi/Marathi sentences to mean "Going to the Market to buy stuff" - "Main Marketing karne ja raha hain".

I came accross this only yesterday --- spoken by an American character in an English book. It was a new one to me, but the author (David Lodge) is an professor of English, so I guess it's right to say that it comes from American English.

Anyway, who cares - we should be proud to use our own dialect of English just like the Americans have done.

As long is it is not just plain bad English, yes. There is plenty of bad American English! There is also plenty of bad English English!

Originally Posted by carboy

- "It's transparent to the user" means "This will happen under the covers, the user will not know about this or be affected by it at all".

Reasonable. Although, perhaps "invisible" would be more accurate! I once had to argue with a boss who thought that transparent meant you could see it. Oddly, "black box" means much the same, and they are not transparent.

BING stands for BING is not Google.

I hadn't heard this before. Not a coincidence? Would MS ever reference* a competitor in a product name?

- "I don't have the bandwidth to do this" means "I don't have the time to do this".

Now this is not techie talk, it is management trying to sound clever. Maybe that's true of 'transparent' too.


*correcting myself... I think that should be refer to

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I hadn't heard this before. Not a coincidence? Would MS ever reference* a competitor in a product name?

It's not official - I guess MS says that Bing isn't an acronym.
However, most people believe it's either a recursive acronym for "Bing is not google" or a backronym for "Because it's not google".

[Thad E Ginathom]

My bet... they never thought of it, and now it really annoys them

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

Many Indian parents are guilty of putting their children to sleep. Yes, infanticide might be on the rise in India but this is not what they meant when they said "I put my son to sleep".

I would not put even my dog to sleep, how can you do it to your child!

"Put to sleep" means - to kill.

The right phrase is "Put to bed" for what you do every night i.e. tuck him into bed and read him a story till he nods off. Or if you are like me, till you nod off and he gets up and starts playing with his toys .

Cheers,

I don't think this is wrong usage. Put to sleep means different things in different contexts.

- I put my kid to sleep == put to ped
- The injured dog was put to sleep = euthanasia
- Harsha Bhogle's commentary puts me to sleep == bored me.

I think all three usages are perfectly correct.

[srishiva]

For me words like chose, choose, lose, loose, live, leave and their usage is something that is not right among Indians.
For everything else as long as spelling and grammar is fine, I would like to believe it as something I would like to call as Indian English.

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by carboy

I don't think this is wrong usage. Put to sleep means different things in different contexts.

- I put my kid to sleep == put to ped
- The injured dog was put to sleep = euthanasia
- Harsha Bhogle's commentary puts me to sleep == bored me.

I think all three usages are perfectly correct.

Why use one phrase for all contexts when there is a specific phrase for different contexts? IMHO it is plain bad English. I grew up hearing about parents putting their children to bed and was taught that "Put to bed" is the correct means to convey what I wanted to say. This usage arises not from grammar or logic but from custom and usage. Part of correct language is using correct idiom.

Perhaps the use of "put to sleep" instead of "put to bed" comes from a direct translation from Indian languages, eg. "sulaake aata hoon", "niddara pattichi vostaanu" and "thoonga vetchittu vareen" from Hindi, Telugu and Tamil respectively.

Cheers,

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by srishiva

For everything else as long as spelling and grammar is fine, I would like to believe it as something I would like to call as Indian English.

A perfect example of Indian English!

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

Why use one phrase for all contexts when there is a specific phrase for different contexts?

Same reason why you say.
- The item may break.
- Life isn't giving me a break.
- I am taking a lunch break.

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

IMHO it is plain bad English.

I am pretty sure it isn't. You can check with phrase dictionaries & stuff.
Putting a kid to sleep is a perfectly good English.

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

Perhaps the use of "put to sleep" instead of "put to bed" comes from a direct translation from Indian languages, eg. "sulaake aata hoon", "niddara pattichi vostaanu" and "thoonga vetchittu vareen" from Hindi, Telugu and Tamil respectively.
Cheers,

I don't think so. I have read the phrase in English books, heard it in movies, seen it in phrase books.

WordNet Search - 3.0

put to sleep - Wiktionary

put to sleep - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


The literal use of "put to sleep" is the same as "put to bed". The idiomatic use is euthanasia.