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Old 23rd January 2024, 12:45   #2941
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
A dumb question from me to everyone here. I see many a builder (mostly B grade builders) construct an extra floor beyond the approved/sanctioned plan. I know that it is not legal but their contacts from the banks (SBI, HDFC et all) say it is ok and they approve the loan. Flat gets registered as well and one gets a B khata certificate it seems.

What are the many issues that may be possible with buying such flats?
I hope you know this:
Quote:
Khata A properties are considered legal whereas Khata B properties are considered illegal even if the property owner has the proper ownership documents.
Quote:
Khata B enables BBMP to collect property taxes from illegally constructed buildings. It also includes properties in violations of certain bylaws, unauthorized layouts and construction in revenue land as well as properties that donít have issuance or completion certificates among other things.
STAY AWAY.

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Old 23rd January 2024, 12:45   #2942
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
A dumb question from me to everyone here. I see many a builder (mostly B grade builders) construct an extra floor beyond the approved/sanctioned plan. I know that it is not legal but their contacts from the banks (SBI, HDFC et all) say it is ok and they approve the loan. Flat gets registered as well and one gets a B khata certificate it seems.

What are the many issues that may be possible with buying such flats?
I know of a flat I was renting which had the exact specifications you have mentioned. I was asked to vacate the flat as the owner wanted to sell the flat in Jan 2019. The flat is still for sale, with no takers as the banks are refusing to give loan (for potential new buyers) for a B Khata flat. The sale price is about 40-50% lesser than market value of other flats in the area, still no takers.
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Old 23rd January 2024, 12:55   #2943
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
What are the many issues that may be possible with buying such flats?
Its just become too common that people, mainly sellers have become overconfident about it, and more and more buildings being constructed this way. Since the numbers are so huge, people think its not practical for the government bodies to order demolition or clearance of any such add-on floors. However, there are certain issues which I have only heard of from people in my circles who have enquired about these properties or who know people who have brought them:
  • The extra floor might end up categorizing the building as a high rise and different rules will apply in the long run with respect to power load sanction, provision of fire safety, emergency exits etc. Some day some authority would wake up on this and might cause trouble, or in case they get money hungry
  • I believe finance is only possible through co-operative banks and NBFCs. If you are aware of the various co-op banks that have ended up badly in Bangalore, most of them are troubled by loans on these properties which are the worse NPAs.
  • Price appreciation is almost impossible and you would be lucky to even sell it at a profit.
I would not touch a property if there is huge money involved and if you do not have the muscle power to handle any intervention from any Govt. body. In my area Banashankari and Jayanagar, its now a regular business to do this - Builders buy 30*50ft or 60*40ft sites and build G+3, totally four houses. The fourth house is illegal. Recently this deal happened:
  • A 30*50ft Site was sold for 2.1cr to some fly by night builder.
  • He constructed stilt and four houses on top, totally G+3 with 3 being illegal.
  • These apartments have a SBUA of roughly 1300sft and were sold at 1.4-1.5cr each. The top floor was sold at a slight discount.
  • Totally builder made around 5.5cr revenue with 1.5cr for construction and that leaves him with around 1.5-2cr profit.
  • Even if you assume the land value doubling in the coming years, the construction value will go down and with 25% share in the land, they would hardly break even.
Seeing this trend, I think this is a trap which people are falling into. The houses look very well done since these smaller builders invest more in aesthetics, wooden doors and windows etc which will impress buyers. But if they carefully do the math, this is a trap in the longrun.

Last edited by audioholic : 23rd January 2024 at 13:12.
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Old 23rd January 2024, 13:05   #2944
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
STAY AWAY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
I know of a flat I was renting which had the exact specifications you have mentioned. I was asked to vacate the flat as the owner wanted to sell the flat in Jan 2019. The flat is still for sale, with no takers as the banks are refusing to give loan (for potential new buyers) for a B Khata flat. The sale price is about 40-50% lesser than market value of other flats in the area, still no takers.
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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Its just become too common that people, mainly sellers have become overconfident about it, and more and more buildings being constructed this way.

I would not touch a property if there is huge money involved and if you do not have the muscle power to handle any intervention from any Govt. body.
Thanks to all of you. I am not planning to buy any such property but would be lying if I said that I was not interested in such properties. Better sense prevailed and moved away. Posted it here to understand how it works out in the long run. I have seen many people staying at such properties and how would BBMP allow it?
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Old 23rd January 2024, 13:57   #2945
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Its just become too common that people, mainly sellers have become overconfident about it, and more and more buildings being constructed this way.
This is all over the place in my neighborhood. What people are doing is 're-developing' their homes to add 2-3 extra floors and renting them out. So much so that when I went to get some property document related work done at the local BBMP office, the official there first refused to believe that our house was just the original G+1 sanctioned and that we were the sole tenants! (He warned me that if I was misrepresenting, they would come for an "inspection". I told him he was welcome and that we'd give him tea! )

But doesn't seem to stop people from renting/buying these sort of places. The demand for housing is allowing a lot of irregularities. I'm also pretty sure the government will eventually end up regularizing these. Causes a very heavy stress on the neighborhood, parking, water, natural light, etc.
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Old 23rd January 2024, 21:49   #2946
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

Does anyone have any experience of No Broker's legal service ( they check title deeds)? Please do share if they are worth taking

Also, what difference is there between an oral opinion and a written opinion from a lawyer on legal check performed for a property? When I connect with a lawyer they quote 2 prices. One for oral and one for written. Does it have any implication in the long run?
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Old 24th January 2024, 10:43   #2947
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Did anyone see today's ToI? Lodha group is selling plots for 1.72cr for a 1250sq ft plot in a plotted development in Ayodhya.
I checked this website: https://lodhaayodhya.com/ and it assures 600% growth in the next 10 years in Ayodhya. A friend says, it'll supersede that.

1. All that jazz aside, anyone considering investing?
2. Also, has anyone bought from the Lodha Group? Friends share horror stories regarding their construction quality.
3. Which is the real website? Google throws up many many different websites all selling these plots.
Any opinions of the forum members on this?
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Old 24th January 2024, 11:35   #2948
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Lodha group is selling plots for 1.72cr for a 1250sq ft plot in a plotted development in Ayodhya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Any opinions of the forum members on this?
None of this is advice, these are just the thoughts I had when I too saw the full-page ad:

*That's comparable to prices for similar sized plots in some areas of Bangalore. Is that justified just on projected tourism numbers?
*Where are the plots located? Near enough to potential tourist/infra projects to appreciate as projected?
*Realistically, since it's so far away, how many times can I visit the site personally before deciding to buy?
*How will I verify the authenticity of the seller/builder, since I am non-local?
*How many times can I visit the plot after I buy? How will I keep it safe from encroachment? (I have a relative who had to deal with encroachment on a plot of land just 70km from Bangalore. Can I make arrangements to keep tabs on land thousands of km away?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Which is the real website? Google throws up many many different websites all selling these plots.
No doubt the value of land there will appreciate, but so will the number of scams.

Last edited by am1m : 24th January 2024 at 11:47.
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Old 24th January 2024, 11:51   #2949
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Any opinions of the forum members on this?
I would not touch it being this far away and not being a local or having any sort of understanding of local land laws there.

Peace of mind or pieces of mind?
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Old 24th January 2024, 13:24   #2950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
A dumb question from me to everyone here. I see many a builder (mostly B grade builders) construct an extra floor beyond the approved/sanctioned plan. I know that it is not legal but their contacts from the banks (SBI, HDFC et all) say it is ok and they approve the loan. Flat gets registered as well and one gets a B khata certificate it seems.

What are the many issues that may be possible with buying such flats?
IF you are a localite and planning to buy it for end use (not investment) and the area is a prime location you may consider taking the RISK else stay away.

If my assumption is correct more then 50% buildings in Bengaluru are B khata, its a big enough vote bank to antagonise which no government can think of doing hence such buildings keep on growing day by day, there was a scheme called 'Akrama Sakrama' which allowed regularisation of such properties by paying a fine, many people are living in the hope of this scheme being brought back but i believe there is a supreme court stay on it.

Also i dont think any nationalised bank will give loans for B khata property, SBI that you were told is most probably the NBFC (SBI housing finance)arm of SBI bank, resale is also tough at times unless its prime locaiton.

During my stay in Bengaluru i was staying as a tenant in one such apartment for almost 7 years, very well constructed 11ft ceiling height, big dry balcony in kitchen, large balconys in all rooms which you cant expect from any top builder unless its a luxury project.
My landlady herself stayed in the same complex and rented out her other 2 flats, from a rental output perspective it was a very good deal for her as being a B khata property the purchase price was less but rentals were same as probably any other A khata property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis View Post
Did anyone see today's ToI? Lodha group is selling plots for 1.72cr for a 1250sq ft plot in a plotted development in Ayodhya.
I checked this website: https://lodhaayodhya.com/ and it assures 600% growth in the next 10 years in Ayodhya. A friend says, it'll supersede that.

1. All that jazz aside, anyone considering investing?
2. Also, has anyone bought from the Lodha Group? Friends share horror stories regarding their construction quality.
3. Which is the real website? Google throws up many many different websites all selling these plots.
That place is literally a gold mine now, no doubt on the appreciation prospects, will not put a number to it but it would be exponential.

However would suggest staying away from this group at the moment, they are a very big name in Mumbai MMR but i believe this is the first project for them in U.P so wouldn't trust them with it.

Currently they have a poor reputation in Mumbai and hearing some murmurs about certain dealings of the group being in radar of agencies for various reasons.

So Stay Away...

Last edited by Samurai : 24th January 2024 at 13:46.
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Old 24th January 2024, 13:41   #2951
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by Gaur View Post
If my assumption is correct more then 50% buildings in Bengaluru are B khata, its a big enough vote bank to antagonise which no government can think of doing hence such buildings keep on growing day by day, there was a scheme called 'Akrama Sakrama' which allowed regularisation of such properties by paying a fine, many people are living in the hope of this scheme being brought back but i believe there is a supreme court stay on it.

...

During my stay in Bengaluru i was staying as a tenant in one such apartment for almost 7 years, very well constructed 11ft ceiling height, big dry balcony in kitchen, large balconys in all rooms which you cant expect from any top builder unless its a luxury project.
My landlady herself stayed in the same complex and rented out her other 2 flats, from a rental output perspective it was a very good deal for her as being a B khata property the purchase price was less but rentals were same as probably any other A khata property.
Intrigued to understand - is this more applicable to plots (and houses/apartments on those plots) or are we talking about gated apartment complexes too? If both, will all the apartments in that complex be considered B khata property? Any known/public examples of the same (or the apartment/complex you stayed at)?
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Old 24th January 2024, 14:30   #2952
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Intrigued to understand - is this more applicable to plots (and houses/apartments on those plots) or are we talking about gated apartment complexes too? If both, will all the apartments in that complex be considered B khata property? Any known/public examples of the same (or the apartment/complex you stayed at)?
So in the case of my apartment complex of ~75 flats and 4 blocks (G+3) what i understood was.

: Land was A khata, had a clear title.
: The 3rd floor of all the blocks was illegal ( beyond the sanctioned plan).
: Few 1bhk units were constructed on ground floor parking and a 2bhk on one of the terraces, all illegal ( beyond the sanctioned plan)
: One of the block was build on the portion of land which was supposed to have a swimming pool/clubhouse as per original plan (now they have only a small kids play area in the corner).
: No proper setback given.

I was planning to purchase a flat in the same society when i was told by the seller himself that i should not approach any nationalized bank as the entire property is B-khata i will not get a loan from them.

I also checked out some new constructions in the same area and they would always say "Land A Khata, property B khata"

My understanding is there is a certain amount of deviation from master plan that BBMP allows with a certain amount of fine to be paid, if the deviation exceeds a limit the entire property is declared a B-Khata.

While speaking with people i realized there is lot of confusion regarding A/B khata properties so eventually ended up purchasing from a premium builder to avoid all these issues.
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Old 24th January 2024, 16:10   #2953
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by Gaur View Post
IF If my assumption is correct more then 50% buildings in Bengaluru are B khata, its a big enough vote bank to antagonise which no government can think of doing hence such buildings keep on growing day by day, there was a scheme called 'Akrama Sakrama' which allowed regularisation of such properties by paying a fine, many people are living in the hope of this scheme being brought back but i believe there is a supreme court stay on it.

Also i dont think any nationalised bank will give loans for B khata property, SBI that you were told is most probably the NBFC (SBI housing finance)arm of SBI bank, resale is also tough at times unless its prime locaiton.
I heard from one lawyer who deals with properties that there are around 5-6 lakh B Khatha properties in Bangalore.

As per what I heard, BBMP was/is very slow in approving new layouts or regularizing the properties when the areas are included into BBMP which led to exponential increase in the number of B Khatha properties. City will not stop growing just because BBMP is lazy.

You can't buy a decent A Khatha individual property with in 2 CR. Almost all the properties advertised by brokers on many youtube channels are B Khatha.

That said, the risk in buying a B Khatha property is always there, but lakhs of people are taking that risk due to lack of choices.

Is it a wise decision to take this risk, only time will tell.
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Old 26th January 2024, 10:21   #2954
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

Anyone know how much is brokerage charged for selling land in Kerala (in particular Kannur, Thalasery area).
In Mumbai, they charge 1% from seller & 1% from buyer. A friend has some inherited land he wants to sell there & they are saying the brokerage is 3% from seller (don't know how much from buyer).

Is it really so high?
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Old 26th January 2024, 13:46   #2955
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Re: The Property / Real Estate Thread

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Anyone know how much is brokerage charged for selling land in Kerala (in particular Kannur, Thalasery area).
In Mumbai, they charge 1% from seller & 1% from buyer. A friend has some inherited land he wants to sell there & they are saying the brokerage is 3% from seller (don't know how much from buyer).

Is it really so high?
No experience with KL as such but this simply sounds like the buyer is not going to pay the commission here and hence the broker is asking the seller to pay the same. Purely a negotiation game here.
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