[V.Narayan]

Work Culture in India’s Corporates

What is it like to work in a company in India – owner driven, MNC, IT sector, investment banking, manufacturing, consumer etc? What has changed in a generation? What is different between the work environment in a mid-sized company with say 900 employees versus a giant organization with 10,000 employees? Do women have a tougher time? Do darker skinned employees have a more difficult ride? Are you treated differently if you are from the Northeast or are of a particular religion?

These and many other questions deserve an answer. Of course, there are no complete answers though each members views and experiences are one piece in this vast jigsaw. And each person’s views, even if we disagree, are valid.

Let me start by sharing what things were like 40 odd years ago. Lack of technology protected juniors or seniors from being at the beck and call of the ones above. It also protected folks from customers calling at odd hours. The desire that they be on beck and call was very much alive but lack of telephones acted as a safety barrier. And of course we had no internet, no emails, no cell phones to get caught on a 24/7 carousal. Unfortunately the expectation was there of hanging around till the boss left which screwed up the evening for all. I once had such a bosses boss for about a year and found my way out to another department. Worst were those bosses who procrastinated through the week and got active only on Saturdays {most of us had a 6-day week back then} – I had one such boss too and when I protested I got the public dressing down of my life and was asked to leave that division. Stuff happens.

Amongst others a few factors come to my mind of what affects the Indian corporate work environment. I’m sure members will have a lot of factors to add to this. First, we are a hierarchical, feudal society that looks down on anyone lower in the social-financial-power dynamics and this often translates to bullying and yelling and downright intimidation. More common in India than we admit. Second in an economy where each job vacancy literally has 100 to 500 applicants the value of an employee diminishes; the risk of losing an employee is discounted. Third within our large IT/BPO export services sector fact is that our Western customers assume that the Indians will stretch to accommodate tighter timelines or make up for shortfalls etc. Our habit of over stretching has given rise to this expectation. Finally for many employees outside the IT or Banking sectors that job is very dear and you want to cling on to it for dear life. That job is rare and vital for your family so if the boss barks and kicks you’ll lump it. If employees in IT/BPO think they have it rough come over to manufacturing or sales or field installations and after two months you’d be singing the praises of the WITCH cohort.

Other characteristics of our work culture are:-

--Culturally we are brought up to respect our elders and seniors; to respect figures of authority; to not push back or say no.

--We believe in stretch and to somehow find a way to get the job done. We are not mentally designed to put pens down after 7 hours and walk off like my French employees used to do.

I’ll say something controversial here – India as a high growth large economy adding around 250 to 300 billion to its GDP each year as a macro eco-system is caught in a storm of development and growth. At a macro level our nation and economy are like a tornado. That naturally leads to an environment of push, push and push. Having built not one but two businesses in my erstwhile career I will say that India is not an environment where you can run let alone build a business that grows at a comfortable 3% to 7% per annum. It is like driving on an autobahn at 60 kmph….you’ll simply get run over. The environment and customers crush the owners/Board/CXOs who in turn crush the employees and so on. Not saying that is good, just stating what happens.

It has taken 4 decades for our corporate salaries to get to livable wage levels. It might take another 25 to 35 years for our work culture to mature.

Would love to hear the views of members on this topic which I am sure is close to the hearts of several young BHPians.

One request – avoid getting into a rant or attacking another member personally.

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[AMG Power]

Was getting into a lift with quite a few others. I hear this: “Told my HR that if I don’t get vada in the cafeteria by 5pm I am resigning.” Reply from his friend :”Good you did that. Its the least they can do” This attitude was a reflection of the extent HR would bend over backwards to retain staff.

Would have loved to hear how that story played out but as luck would have it, didn’t run into the protagonist again. That was Bangalore IT culture in the heydays of IT.

As the saying went, “with a company in the morning, another in the afternoon and a third by evening.”

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

[center][h3]
Would love to hear the views of members on this topic which I am sure is close to the hearts of several young BHPians.

Based on my experience, the work culture in most Indian companies is pathetic and the reason for this just boils down to one thing - overpopulation. We have too many people knocking on the doors of the job market and this just dilutes the value of human resources in a country like ours.

MNCs operating in India still inherit good practices and culture from the West (their headquarters) but true desi companies serving the Indian market are really the worst of the lot. Employee welfare is only on paper and lack of professionalism as well as micro-management especially from the middle management is the usual.

Yes there are a few good managers and good companies but those are more of an exception rather than the norm. For work culture reason, I would always stick to MNCs and prefer to have non-Indian bosses.

[Chetan_Rao]

Social hierarchy is arguably the largest factor in Indian civic discourse, and it reflects everywhere, including our workplaces. People don't suddenly change after entering their workplace and change back once outside the gates again.

In a society where even the second-bottom person on the totem pole still believes in their hierarchy-given right to punch down while being punched from above, mindsets can't be changed by simply mandating behavior-by-policy.

The youth today are beginning to slowly democratise civic discourse, but generational conditioning is hard to shake off so I'm not expecting any miracles in a hurry.

Slow, incremental change, maybe in a couple generations is what we can realistically hope for.

[ValarMorghulis]

Few instances from Indian IT companies' culture:

1. An excellent resource was managing a $2million project. Exceptional skills and knowledge, but since the IT company wasn't exactly growing, there were no hikes for more than a year. Now the client wanted to appreciate the said resource. Wanted to pay INR 8 lakhs as a bonus. But the IT company was appalled!
IT Company: "This will spoil the culture", "Accounting/ billing issues".
Client: "Bill me now and pay the resource over the next two quarters".
IT Company: "This is against the policy. We won't pay this much bonus".

Needless to say, the client took the project to a rival company, along with the resource and paid.

2. Exceptional resource vital to the client and the project. Niche skill.
Resource: "I need a 10% hike".
Company: "Can't. Against policy set by company".
Resource: "I'm getting much better offers but I want to stay as I like the team and client but need hike".
Company: "No can do. Will spoil culture".
Resource resigned with a 50% hike in a rival company.
Company then hired another person from the market at 1.5x the salary.

3. Company had x amount as team building per resource per quarter. A new manager joined in from another WITCH company.
Immediately instead of spending x, spent only 0.4x and bragged to the HR. "I saved 0.6x per resource for the company. These team members don't know about the actual amount. They are happy with this. We can show budget saved to the company as savings".

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

IT Company: "This is against the policy. We won't pay this much bonus".

I am curious. Let's say you were the CEO of this company. What would you do? Give hike/bonus to just one guy?

[am1m]

Wow, this is a tough one, simply because it spans a whole range.

How do you compare the experiences of a employee at a well-funded tech startup to those of an employee at a decades-old car assembly line? Even within a sector, say IT, there are companies that have cultures that are like chalk and cheese.

So I'll restrict my response to the IT sector, the only sector I've worked in, for over 2 decades.

First off, I'll have to say that working conditions are good. The culture is not as good as it could be. Or should be if we are ever to move up the value chain from being 'code coolies' to creating world-class products. And that should the driving factor. Not to create a better work culture because it's mandated or because there's a committee. Not because it's 'woke' (or whatever term that's being used right now to dismiss anything that dares challenge the established order ('hippie', 'beatnik', 'urban naxal', etc.)). But because it gives companies a competitive advantage in terms of attracting talent. Again, that depends on the kind of talent you need- just warm bodies on an assembly line to massage code written by others, or individuals that can program and create things. For the first you need assembly-line supervisors. For the latter, you need managers.

But overall, work conditions are undeniably good at almost any IT company. Especially compared to almost any other sector in our country. For employees that means don't sweat the small stuff! Don't throw tantrums because of small things. For employers, just because work conditions are good, doesn't mean you can dismiss work culture as unnecessary.

2 things are broken at most IT companies. Recruitment and new manager training.

Recruitment is the 'punishment-posting' of HR. In cricket fielding terms, it's silly mid-off. Which is a shame because it's one of the most important functions in any organization. But the first contact any potential employee has with an organization is with an employee who doesn't want to be doing that job or is biding their time till they can gain some experience and move on. This results in less than ideal candidates that filter up and ultimately creates the work culture.

Management in IT companies is a mixed bag. I've always wondered why I enjoyed working with almost all my US managers, while I've enjoyed working only with one or two of my Indian managers. Because in general, if someone is managing a team in the US, it's because they wanted their career to go in that direction, by choice. A manager role is just a different direction, rather than a step-up. The perceived social-status "upgrade" that a management role gets here is a relic of our past social structures. Which is why here everyone thinks they 'have' to become a manager, when the truth is that management is not for everyone. Promoting the best techie on the team (who will threaten to leave if they don't become a manager in x years) to people management is a recipe for disaster. The skills required to be a good programmer are often the opposite of those required to be a good people manager. Narrow focus vs big picture. Hours working in isolation vs being able to liaise with multiple people. Prove your idea vs build consensus. Instinctively 'gets' code (works the same way every time) vs understands people (different people work differently, even the same person can be different at different times and needs to be handled accordingly). And without training, that's going to perpetuate a bad work culture.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Management in IT companies is a mixed bag. I've always wondered why I enjoyed working with almost all my US managers, while I've enjoyed working only with one or two of my Indian managers. Because in general, if someone is managing a team in the US, it's because they wanted their career to go in that direction, by choice. A manager role is just a different direction, rather than a step-up. The perceived social-status "upgrade" that a management role gets here is a relic of our past social structures. Which is why here everyone thinks they 'have' to become a manager, when the truth is that management is not for everyone. Promoting the best techie on the team (who will threaten to leave if they don't become a manager in x years) to people management is a recipe for disaster. The skills required to be a good programmer are often the opposite of those required to be a good people manager. Narrow focus vs big picture. Hours working in isolation vs being able to liaise with multiple people. Prove your idea vs build consensus. Instinctively 'gets' code (works the same way every time) vs understands people (different people work differently, even the same person can be different at different times and needs to be handled accordingly). And without training, that's going to perpetuate a bad work culture.

It appears that you and I are of the same mind; I had posted similar views on the thread in which the passing of the poor young CA is being discussed.

At the present moment, it looks like everyone and everything around one, has become actively subservient to the capitalist ideal and therefore must simply inexorably ‘race onward’ towards those ephemeral goals to the exclusion of all else.

Unquestioning, Pre-Programmed Lemmings is an analogy that immediately springs to mind along with ‘Seeking Nirvana for the Self’ and the Devil Take the Hindmost.

In such a scenario it is increasingly apparent that there is very less space left for the older ideals of gentlemanliness, courtesy, genuine care for customers and employees and so on.

[lazy]

Wow, what a topic, will be tough to not go into an endless rant !!

About me - almost 2.5 decades of working primarily in US Tech firms (India offices), with about 3-4 years in Indian firms. Since I was in consulting, have worked extensively with Indian firms in the Industrial sector and also with American /Australian /Chinese /British /Mexican /Thai /Taiwanese /German firms and individuals.


My views below.

The Good -
- Salary hikes are much better in Indian firms compared to foreign firms (%age wise, though on an absolute scale foreign firms pay better),
- Promotions are also faster and
- Responsibility/scope of business ownership is bigger.

The Bad -
- Indian firms place very low value on specialized skills or SMEs - everyone is expected to become a people manager,
- Coz of above, focus is higher on throughput & jugaad rather than quality.
- Indian (especially men) are the worst managers & colleagues - highly insecure, always seeking shortcuts at the cost of quality, abysmal work ethic, pathological liars, generally dishonest, always complaining, easily pass personal remarks.
- Having worked closely with so many Indian firms (as a consultant), can confidently say that mediocrity is the norm, even leadership.
- Competency + Good work ethic is rarer than krypton. Even in bluechips.
- Zero boundary regarding when to call or setup meeting. Never have I ever received a late call from a non-Indian.

cheers
lazy

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

..prefer to have non-Indian bosses.

It’s called white superiority, a home truth we Indians are loathe to admit.

(Minor case in point - After 77 years of independence, the white man’s tongue still remains the major medium of communication. Despite having 22 official desi languages.)

[dileepcm]

Agree to most points above. Our corporate culture is not something we can be proud of yet. One important skill we miss in India is the ability to (politely) say no. Generally speaking, we do not know or we do not get trained on how to agree to disagree and still be able to maintain professional relationships. Next to that, there is no real respect for personal time when it comes to 'work'. People get phone calls from work day and night and during weekends and holidays even when there are no real urgencies. Things are improving but not fast enough to be able to see the changes happening.

[charanreddy]

Let me share my 2 cents. For context, I have 16 yrs of work experience, spread across a grand total of 2 companies, both product. I believe I am more fortunate to have worked in organisations and teams which were more good than bad.

I have met some truly exceptional managers who have influenced my career in very impactful ways to some really dumb and crappy ones, even recollecting their name send a wave of disgust even now. Being a manager now, I tried to imbibe the best qualities while staying away from the ones I detested.

One thing I realised, it’s the crappy managers that cause the greatest disruption in employee conditions while being the least impactful. What’s also unfortunate is these are Indians who relocated to the US a few years back and now believe they are a cut above the rest.

A few examples of good managers :

1. In Yr 1 of my corporate journey , I was given a boring and repetitive job to do which would take half a day. This could not be avoided as there was a deliverable at short notice. I saw my manager who was three levels above take up half my workload. I asked her why and that I can do it. she said : I shouldn’t be asking you to do anything which I am not ready to do myself. My respect for her and her management style became multifold. Empathy is now an integral part of my management style , thanks to her.

2. I won’t recall all of them, but multiple instances where my managers backed me despite the fact that doing so would cause some strife with other departments like marketing. I try to do the same as much as I can.

Examples of Bad Management/ Managers.

1. I was on a short US partner visit. My partner / dottedLine manager took a considerable part of our time showing off his new BMW , New house in an obnoxious and superior sort of way. Lost respect instantly. And this was a guy who was worthless work wise.

2. My partner in the US had no regard for Indian employees and used to give out meaningless tasks at 11 PM or later. Something as silly as change the colour in slide X. Something he could very easily do, but chose
to delegate regardless of time zones. There was a particularly bad instance where I was on the way back home after a long day and this guy decided to FaceTime me at 1 AM for a meaningless task.

[madhukarmohan]

I work as a data architect in Bengaluru for one of the Fortune 5 companies, where the work ethic is exceptional, and the company places a strong emphasis on integrity and safety. Everyone are treated same irrespective of their position, gender, ethnicity, etc. In my experience, I haven't seen any colleagues complaining about their managers or discussing that they are paid less, at least not within my team or broader department; mostly due to a good salary program which involves research to be above par with the market. One aspect I particularly enjoy is the diversity within our teams, as we have team members from various regions including Bengaluru, Bangkok, Prague, Budapest, Sao Paulo, Houston and Buenos Aires.

In contrast, I often hear about sad (and some good) stories from friends and neighbors about their workplace cultures. However, I believe things are improving overall. Compared to 10 years ago, the work environment has become significantly more positive, particularly in terms of fostering better cultures. As an example, before no one (or few) were getting paid paternity leaves and now I see many companies are giving paid 2 weeks paternity leave and few are setting an example by giving 3 months. This is a good example to tell that the things are moving towards a good work culture.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

It’s called white superiority, a home truth we Indians are loathe to admit.

(Minor case in point - After 77 years of independence, the white man’s tongue still remains the major medium of communication. Despite having 22 official desi languages.)

Buddy, you need to get off your high horse here. This has nothing to do with white superiority. A non-Indian can also mean a person of African-American or Hispanic lineage.
Never the less, I stand by what I said. Non-Indian bosses in general have been more professional, practical and respectful of my work-life balance. Really don't care for the color of their skin till it's overall beneficial for my career and life. Jingoism is not for everyone.

PS - English is a major reason for our powerhouse services sector, seamless integration within global economy and also why we are able to talk to each other on a forum like Tbhp in a common language. If you believe that we as a country can come to a single communication language from the list of 22, try and let me know how it goes. Good luck with that!