Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge.

manolin · 10th February 2011, 11:58

The US example really can't be used here, because they have great anti-trust/compeitition law regime. What that entails is that if there is a cartel which raises prices everywhere such that there is no free choice, then it has to be stopped. In theory we have a similar legal regime as well but its really not translated into practice, or its impractical fight it in courts. So for that reason we need strict legal safeguards for consumers.

tsk1979 · 10th February 2011, 12:09

Also be aware, that in the US the courts system is very much skewed towards the consumer. In India, if you find a fly in your soft drink, you will be compensated probably a 1000rs, which is what, 100 times the cost of the soft drink.
In the west the damages awarded can be a million times the cost of the item. Here after being sold a used 50 lakh car as new, courts award a puny 2L in damages.
So abuse of monopoly and hoarding, while illegal is very easy to get away with. It is more profitable to lose in court and pay off a few lakhs, than to do things the right way.

carboy · 10th February 2011, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by manolin

The US example really can't be used here, because they have great anti-trust/compeitition law regime. What that entails is that if there is a cartel which raises prices everywhere such that there is no free choice, then it has to be stopped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Also be aware, that in the US the courts system is very much skewed towards the consumer. In India, if you find a fly in your soft drink, you will be compensated probably a 1000rs, which is what, 100 times the cost of the soft drink.
In the west the damages awarded can be a million times the cost of the item. Here after being sold a used 50 lakh car as new, courts award a puny 2L in damages.
So abuse of monopoly and hoarding, while illegal is very easy to get away with. It is more profitable to lose in court and pay off a few lakhs, than to do things the right way.

I agree fully with what both of you say, but I fail to understand how it is relevant at all to a shopkeeper selling a bottle of pop or water for whatever prices he choses to.

The shopkeeper is neither a cartel nor is he a monopoly nor is he hoarding.
Also I don't think we are discussing selling a bad bottle of soda or water above MRP but a good one.

tsk1979 · 10th February 2011, 12:50

No what we are saying, if there was no MRP, it would be much easier for shopkeepers to sell a bottle of water for 100rs at places where they know they can be the only source.
In a town where there is only one wholesale dealer, he has a monopoly and he can decide to price everything at whatever rates he chooses.
MRP is a big detterent, even then, some cheating goes on, imagine the circus without MRP

carboy · 10th February 2011, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No what we are saying, if there was no MRP, it would be much easier for shopkeepers to sell a bottle of water for 100rs at places where they know they can be the only source.
In a town where there is only one wholesale dealer, he has a monopoly and he can decide to price everything at whatever rates he chooses.

What do you think the US antitrust laws will do about the above?
The above is not an abuse of the US antitrust laws at all.
Also a monopoly isn't illegal in the US either.

sydras · 10th February 2011, 13:51

I would not be so concerned with the 50 paise or the Re 1/- that a local shopkeeper charges because the amount is minimal and there might actually be a case for him i.e. he might actually be trying to cover the additional electricity cost (at commercial rates?) especially in the summer.

I am more concerned about paying Rs 50/- at Subway and such eateries and cinemas where the fleecing is clear and evident. There have no justification to charge extra. I know that there are a lot of overheads but they would not be in business if they weren't already turning a profit from their mainstream business.

raju2512 · 10th February 2011, 14:19

The duties/taxes (ED, VAT etc) are paid by the manufacturer on MRP. If any one sells above the MRP, the relevant taxes on the excess amount are deemed to have been evaded and hence action can be taken on the erring shop keeper by the central excise or VAT officials. So selling above MRP is illegal.

In case of non packaged foods like pizzas etc, there is no MRP and the shop pays tax on the sale price if applicable and hence they can sell at any price.

Similarly if a manufacturer marks two different MRPs for the same product, as long as he pays the taxes on the marked MRP, they are within the laws. They may be charged by consumer courts for deficiency of service if the same or similar shops sell both.

Another big racket I have seen this that none of the food courts in the malls have drinking water. You have to necessarily buy bottled water. Hope some one files a PIL on this.

Some time back IRCTC lost a case when they didn't provide water with curd rice from the pantry car.

carboy · 10th February 2011, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sydras

I know that there are a lot of overheads but they would not be in business if they weren't already turning a profit from their mainstream business.

Not relevant to the thread, but just wanted to mention that in the US, it's the pop (coke, pepsi etc) & the fries which makes the money for McDonalds. They sell their burger at a loss or a minimal profit typically. Of course, this isn't bottled pop, but one which comes through the machine.

Getting back to the point of the thread, there is always a loophole around MRP.
It's widely used in stuff like some electronic stuff, electrical parts, hardware etc. The manufacture prints a very high price as the MRP.
Then shop keepers have a wide discretion of what kind of discount they should give & effectively everyone gets to sell it at whatever price they feel they want to sell it at.

For eg. Bisleri will put the MRP as Rs. 30 on their bottle. Your grocer will give you 50% discount & sell it at Rs.30. Subway will charge full MRP.

carboy · 10th February 2011, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by raju2512

Another big racket I have seen this that none of the food courts in the malls have drinking water. You have to necessarily buy bottled water. Hope some one files a PIL on this.

So what law are they breaking by not having water which can resolved by filing a PIL?

vivekiny2k · 10th February 2011, 21:16

Quote:

Another big racket I have seen this that none of the food courts in the malls have drinking water. You have to necessarily buy bottled water. Hope some one files a PIL on this.

On the other hand in US, Taco bell (and I think subway, chipotle and others too) have started offering free water from the same fountain where you get cold drinks.

I guess it all boils down to market forces.

msdivy · 10th February 2011, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by raju2512

Another big racket I have seen this that none of the food courts in the malls have drinking water. You have to necessarily buy bottled water. Hope some one files a PIL on this.

Forum Mall in Bangalore has it. One of BBMP requirement for hotels in Bangalore is to provide safe drinking water.

mykal shoemaker · 18th February 2011, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Phrangmung

All of us must have paid government officials thousands of rupees till today for doing what they are paid to do or their "duty". So paying a rupee or two extra to the nikkar shopwalla / kirana store should not be an issue. :-)

Friend,
This attitude of ours is what infact spoiling our country. If we hang on to this attitude, we will keep blaming system after 100 years or 200 years of independence also.

Just because we did some mistake in past,we don't have to shut our eyes against all malpractices.

meerkat · 18th February 2011, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

On the other hand in US, Taco bell (and I think subway, chipotle and others too) have started offering free water from the same fountain where you get cold drinks.

I guess it all boils down to market forces.

Since when have they "started" this unheard of favor?! Free water has always been available at all restaurants that I've ever been to, whether from pop dispensers, or otherwise.

Paulstar · 21st February 2011, 16:03

I think its wrong, MSRP is MSRP. RRP (Here in Aus, that is different) Be glad you only got 100% markup, i took a friend of mine to dinner at not so flash hotel in Chennai. She ordered a redbull (I had previously paid 75rs for a can so this is what i was expecting) got the bill after the meal. 500rs.....

10th February 2011, 11:58	#46
manolin BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Delhi/Cuttack Posts: 390 Thanked: 202 Times	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. The US example really can't be used here, because they have great anti-trust/compeitition law regime. What that entails is that if there is a cartel which raises prices everywhere such that there is no free choice, then it has to be stopped. In theory we have a similar legal regime as well but its really not translated into practice, or its impractical fight it in courts. So for that reason we need strict legal safeguards for consumers. Last edited by manolin : 10th February 2011 at 11:59.
	() Thanks

10th February 2011, 12:09	#47
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,826 Times View My Garage	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. Also be aware, that in the US the courts system is very much skewed towards the consumer. In India, if you find a fly in your soft drink, you will be compensated probably a 1000rs, which is what, 100 times the cost of the soft drink. In the west the damages awarded can be a million times the cost of the item. Here after being sold a used 50 lakh car as new, courts award a puny 2L in damages. So abuse of monopoly and hoarding, while illegal is very easy to get away with. It is more profitable to lose in court and pay off a few lakhs, than to do things the right way.
	() Thanks

10th February 2011, 12:50	#49
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,826 Times View My Garage	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. No what we are saying, if there was no MRP, it would be much easier for shopkeepers to sell a bottle of water for 100rs at places where they know they can be the only source. In a town where there is only one wholesale dealer, he has a monopoly and he can decide to price everything at whatever rates he chooses. MRP is a big detterent, even then, some cheating goes on, imagine the circus without MRP
	() Thanks

10th February 2011, 13:51	#51
sydras BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 119 Thanked: 93 Times	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. I would not be so concerned with the 50 paise or the Re 1/- that a local shopkeeper charges because the amount is minimal and there might actually be a case for him i.e. he might actually be trying to cover the additional electricity cost (at commercial rates?) especially in the summer. I am more concerned about paying Rs 50/- at Subway and such eateries and cinemas where the fleecing is clear and evident. There have no justification to charge extra. I know that there are a lot of overheads but they would not be in business if they weren't already turning a profit from their mainstream business.
	() Thanks

10th February 2011, 14:19	#52
raju2512 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 325 Thanked: 143 Times	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. The duties/taxes (ED, VAT etc) are paid by the manufacturer on MRP. If any one sells above the MRP, the relevant taxes on the excess amount are deemed to have been evaded and hence action can be taken on the erring shop keeper by the central excise or VAT officials. So selling above MRP is illegal. In case of non packaged foods like pizzas etc, there is no MRP and the shop pays tax on the sale price if applicable and hence they can sell at any price. Similarly if a manufacturer marks two different MRPs for the same product, as long as he pays the taxes on the marked MRP, they are within the laws. They may be charged by consumer courts for deficiency of service if the same or similar shops sell both. Another big racket I have seen this that none of the food courts in the malls have drinking water. You have to necessarily buy bottled water. Hope some one files a PIL on this. Some time back IRCTC lost a case when they didn't provide water with curd rice from the pantry car.
	() Thanks

21st February 2011, 16:03	#59
Paulstar BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 46 Thanked: 4 Times	Re: Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. I think its wrong, MSRP is MSRP. RRP (Here in Aus, that is different) Be glad you only got 100% markup, i took a friend of mine to dinner at not so flash hotel in Chennai. She ordered a redbull (I had previously paid 75rs for a can so this is what i was expecting) got the bill after the meal. 500rs.....
	() Thanks