[BurningHeart]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I have been with StanChart (earlier Grindlays) since 1979, and took my first cad in 1995. We have always kept all our cards (now 5 holders and 6 cards, since I have both MC and Visa) linked to the bank accounts with 100% auto-debit. As far as I know no other bank offers 100% auto-debit facility. saves a lot of hassles. The debit is on the last day or the day after, so no damages there.

However, I may qualify that all of us are Priority Customers so do get preferential treatment.

Citi has it too. Works well.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Guite

Your response prompted me to check up more on this matter. Oh well, it boils down to which technology is safer, in a field where none is rock solid safe. ICICI bank states as much whereas HDFC says chip based cards are "virtually impossible to copy".

That is correct. Also remember that 50% of all credit card fraud happens online or in other CNP scenarios, where the chip has no role to play at all.

What statements like HDFC's really say is that "we say our tech is virtually impossible to copy, so if your card was misused it is obviously your fault" and so allow them to wriggle out of any liabilities. What the chip and pin cards do for PoS transactions is to shift the weakest link to the PoS device from the card itself; something the cardholder cannot protect or even vouch for, even if he wanted to.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#Vulnerabilities

Lastly, remember that India still has not started implementing the PIN part of chip and pin.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by binand

What statements like HDFC's really say is that "we say our tech is virtually impossible to copy, so if your card was misused it is obviously your fault" and so allow them to wriggle out of any liabilities.

That's exactly the scary part. I have read similar concerns raised at FlyerTalk. It's pertinent that banks accept that chip cards are vulnerable, maybe less so than magnetic strips, but still vulnerable. The YouTube video of an 'attack' on chip based card performed by Cambridge University is an eye opener.

I have been wondering about the dual presence of magnetic strip and chip for backward compatibility with older PoS machines. If the data on chip in encrypted and that on the magnetic strip is not, where s the enhanced security?

[snkjr]

So I fell into the trap yesterday. I received a call from HDFC telling me that there is an option to upgrade my card. I was busy at the moment so told them to go ahead and do that. While asleep at night I had a revelation that I should have asked them about what's gonna happen to my reward points. I'm not kidding - I have these dreams/revelations often !

So I woke up in the morning and gave them a call - and sure enough they had eaten all my reward points - and I had collected a considerable amount of points on that card!

Don't fall into this trap, y'all.

[binand]

Originally Posted by snkjr

So I woke up in the morning and gave them a call - and sure enough they had eaten all my reward points - and I had collected a considerable amount of points on that card!

Don't fall into this trap, y'all.

Reward points don't go away just because you upgraded a card. Try emailing them. I don't think there's any trap here.

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by snkjr

So I woke up in the morning and gave them a call - and sure enough they had eaten all my reward points - and I had collected a considerable amount of points on that card!

That is incorrect. I have upgraded my HDFC Credit Card twice till date. Never ever have been the points eaten away.

Call the helpline and have this rectified / clarified.

In fact on one occasion when I had called the helpline to redeem my reward points, the customer care executive suggested me to upgrade my card since the upgraded card had a better redemption ratio. I upgraded the card and then redeemed the reward points. Received almost twice as much in rewards in the bargain.

Only flip side : I had to wait for two weeks to receive the upgraded card.

[snkjr]

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

That is incorrect.

There is nothing "incorrect" about my post. It is factual information - I chose to upgrade my credit card and HDFC ate my reward points.

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by snkjr

There is nothing "incorrect" about my post. It is factual information - I chose to upgrade my credit card and HDFC ate my reward points.

I think you misunderstood me : What I meant was that was incorrect on HDFC's part to do that.

btw : have you received the statement for the upgraded credit card? When you upgrade, old card does show zero reward points. When you receive the first statement of the new (upgraded) credit card you should see the points carried forward.

[snkjr]

@amoghchaphalkar - thank you for the clarification. I have called, and I have emailed them. Guess I'll check the statement when it arrives later - I have upgraded just yesterday - I guess they wouldn't even have shipped the new card yet

[Guite]

Do travel agencies and tour operators have unique credit card processing channel, authorising them to charge a card just on card number and expiry date?

I went to a car rental company to book a taxi. They took above details, no CVV number, na card holder name. I did not see the actual interface- whether it is web based or special hardware. It definitely was not swipe machine. They told me they process credit card payments like this only. On the other hand ICICI (card issuing bank) denied access, so payment could not be processed. I will also be contacting the bank to learn more about this.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Guite

I went to a car rental company to book a taxi. They took above details, no CVV number, na card holder name.

Was this in India?

Anyway, the kind of transaction you are talking about, called MOTO - short for Mail Order/Telephone Order, is almost as old as the credit card itself. I guess the car rental agency habitually take bookings over the phone. But they broke the rule that if the physical card is available, then they have to make a swiped transaction.

I'm not sure why ICICI Bank declined the transaction, though.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by binand

Was this in India?

Anyway, the kind of transaction you are talking about, called MOTO - short for Mail Order/Telephone Order, is almost as old as the credit card itself. I guess the car rental agency habitually take bookings over the phone. But they broke the rule that if the physical card is available, then they have to make a swiped transaction.

I'm not sure why ICICI Bank declined the transaction, though.

It is in India.

The rental agency told me they do all credit card payment this way. Physical was presented to them. If I had trusted their standard form submission, I would have just filled it and sent it to them by mail.

How safe is this MOTO processing? Can the payment be diverted to personal accounts, or is it linked to specific merchant account?

I intend to contact ICICI.

[Ketan]

I was on a trip to Ooty last weekend. I remember using the Citi credit card a few times during 2 days including ClubMahindra, Dominos and two different fuel stations. When I'm looking at my statement on 12/20, I see an international transaction of 11365.xx on 12/18 (when I was in Ooty). When I enquired about it with the bank they said it's not an online transaction but looks to be a physical transaction which was Euro 150.00. Looked like someone cloned my card! I generally walk with the attendant at fuel stations to sign but not sure if I did that during past few instances. I guess we all should keep that in mind and make sure the card is swiped in front of us (Cloning may require just an additional swipe on a cloning machine).
Bank blocked the old card and reissued a new one to me, gave me the credit same as the above transaction while they are investigating the transaction. I'll come to know the results soon.
Please ensure your presence while your card is being used/swiped etc.

[Guite]

Latest update from my side. I called up ICICI CC in the morning. The executive does not have a clue about MOTO. I tried to understand from him about the special privileges that travel agencies has. The discussion was not getting anywhere. He cut the connection.

I called again in the evening and this time we concentrated on the transaction and why it was denied. The executive told me the transaction was denied because wrong one time password was given. I don't know what all steps are involved in MOTO. I did not receive any OTP message at that time. I don't know whether merchant is supposed to receive. Anyway I was strongly advised not to share credit card details with anyone. Totally agree with her.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Guite

How safe is this MOTO processing? Can the payment be diverted to personal accounts, or is it linked to specific merchant account?

I would worry only about the merchant writing down my card details on a piece of paper with little or no safeguards (for this reason, I send in cheques or use e-commerce instead of MOTOs). Payment diversion is not a problem at all. I think theft of card details happen most often during card-present transactions (and by way of hacking of e-commerce sites that store card details), and misuse of such stolen cards happen most often online, and typically outside of the country of issue.