[anujmishra]

Here is reply sent by my friend regarding condor's suggestions:
-------------------------------------
@condor - currently not looking for new car, but may be few years
after. Car is first hand, I have taken car out from MASS to Sai
Colorium, JP Nagar (based on some good feedback on team-bhp). They
verbally said its 30-50K work, hope it does't increases after opening
the car.

Trying to negotiate from Insurance company for some better amount and 13K.

Any idea how to keep tab on cost while getting repaired? because I may
get some fixed amount from insurance company as settlement and fixed
amount other person. I am ok with another few thousands from my
pocket, but not much.
-------------------------------------

[mjothi]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

Trying to negotiate from Insurance company for some better amount and 13K.

Good idea. Try hard and get the cash loss. As pavan quoted, I too feel that it will not be north of 50K.

Good luck.

[drpullockaran]

Take the car to a wheel alignment shop and find out how much off the readings are. It would help greatly if you have the most recent alignment values of the car. If the readings are off by more than 5 percent then the best option is to sell the car. As far as I know there is only one chassis straightening machine in our country and its located in Mumbai with the BMW people. If the chassis needs to be straightened then any other road side method will not give you the correct feel of stability in the car.

The front right fender panel telescoping into the front right door is a cause for concern. If the owner is not severely emotionally attached to the car I suggest selling the car even if there is minor chassis bend.

If its confirmed there is no chassis bend I do not foresee more than 40000 for repairs at dedicated body shop.

Do let us know what was the repair bill for the spark guy as I am deciding between a Alto K10 and the Spark. I want the stronger car of the two for myself with a chilling AC being the deal maker.
Please note here that the front end of all cars are the crumple zone and the rear the second strongest part of a hatchback after the A pillar.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

Trying to negotiate from Insurance company for some better amount and 13K.

I'm confused at why and what you are trying to negotiate, when the insurance ought to spend the repair amount minus depreciation. And, like I mentioned above, labour can be claimed 100%. So, stop negotiating and start demanding. Its your right, and that's why you paid your full cover premium for the last 5 years.

Ask Sai Colorium to send the completed bill to the insurance company. Pay your part (depreciation + claim charges) and ask the insurance to pay the rest. Move on..

[condor]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

Any idea how to keep tab on cost while getting repaired?

Your repair bill will broadly fall under tinkering & parts replacements, and un-known issues. Tinkering & painting should be straight. Get a list of parts that needs to be replaced, and you can pick up the same from the Maruti OE spares outlet yourself. This will give you a good idea of the costs.

The unknown part you cannot really estimate. If it was known, then it would have already been estimated. Remember, problems may come up after the body shop has completed repairs. And esp for this, the point mentioned by Dr Pullockaran will be important.

[rki2007]

I do not suspect any Chassis damage after all is it is small accident and the estimate given by the MASS is very unreasonable. I feel it should be within 50K and moreover there may be no much of mechanical work.Do try to assess the cost with some other service centre and selling the car does not seem to be a good option afterall any body repair can be done and the car can be put back on the roads with good health.Also try with some local reliable mechanics.

[anujmishra]

My friend's reply on queries and suggestions of various members:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks everyone here for their thoughts and advises. It's indeed great
support for troubled person like me.

@drpullockaran - If not severe then I am fairly emotionally attached.
That's why taking the pain of getting it repaired. The problem is
insurance company who is denying the repair and forcing me to settle
for total loss or get some cash based on salvage value which will be
only around 13K or little more If I negotiate. I don't know what was
the cost of repair for spark guy, but spark seems more stronger than
alto, i may be wrong as my still car became sandwiched between moving
spark and wall in the front that's why both back and front got
damaged, whereas for sparks its only front. If there would have been
space in front to move, even the back would have not been damaged this
much. But one thing I must mention that after calling maruti help line
they arranged for technician and towing vehicle within 30mins. Whereas
for chevy guys no one turned up till next morning, the incident
happened in the night around 8 O'clock.


@dhanushs - Thanks for all your suggestions and advises. I am too
confused (as not sure of real rule around TL vs Partial Loss
settlement) why they (insurance company) are not ready for repair
based settlement, even if the cost of repair is going to be less than
75% of IDV. They are telling based on their cost benefit analysis
total loss is beneficial for them; because they need to pay only
13K(1.1L they are getting from salvage buyer.) to meet IDV of 1.23L.
Where as if they go for repair, their liability may reach 40K. And
when I am insisting for repair based settlement instead of total loss
settlement, they are not ready for it, saying its at their discretion
to decide how they want to settle the claim. Any help in this front
would be helpful for me to deal with them. I am mainly taking with
their area manager for bangalore. Till date they only taking over
phone, but said on Monday (11th June) they will send me letter with
their final proposal on settlement. I have already lost 18 days till
date and paid more than 7K to M.A.S.S and towing companies. Sai
Colorium will start charging parking after 15 days. So kind of getting
impatient to get any thing that insurance company gives. Sai colorium
though said, they will help me to get the appropriate claim, not sure
how much they will succeed.


@condor - I am scared of consequences like what Dr Pullockaran has
told. Its a risk of not giving it for total loss. Hoping for good,
that's the only thing I can do now after deciding not to sell and go
for repair. But even getting repair is not so easy (financially) when
insurance company is not in mood to bear their part of liability
fairly.

@rki2007 - Thanks for your suggestion, hope its not a chassis damage.
As I mentioned in first post, is RH apron damage considered as chassis
damage? Because of apron folding the RH wheel is touching the fender
and RH front door is not opening fully.

[mjothi]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

I am too confused (as not sure of real rule around TL vs Partial Loss
settlement) why they (insurance company) are not ready for repair
based settlement, even if the cost of repair is going to be less than
75% of IDV. They are telling based on their cost benefit analysis
total loss is beneficial for them; because they need to pay only
13K(1.1L they are getting from salvage buyer.) to meet IDV of 1.23L.
Where as if they go for repair, their liability may reach 40K.

Total Loss - If the cost to the insurance company exceeds the 75% of IDV, then they call it a total loss.

Partial Loss - If you accept to repair the car by yourself outside the purview of Insurance company, then its called Partial loss.

The difference is, in total loss, the car is suppose to be handed over to Insurance company and it has to be "salvage". They will give a certificate / document highlighting it and you can apply or adjust that Road tax in next car purchase.

This 75% is not full cost of repair. Its the cost to Insurance company (excluding dep and plastics for which owner pays).

If he says total loss, he should give you full IDV. Since the IDV is declared value after the depreciation.

So, I am surprised with the reaction from Insurance guys. Also, if they make it total loss, then you should get the Road Tax reimbursed from RTO with some official documents from Insurance.

When they say they will give you 13K and the car, it means its cash loss. So, they are escaping from their liability by just paying 13K.

If their liability is 40K, then how can it be a total loss. To make it a total loss, their liability should be more than 90K. And no way, its going to be more than that for this repair.

Originally Posted by anujmishra

And when I am insisting for repair based settlement instead of total loss
settlement, they are not ready for it, saying its at their discretion
to decide how they want to settle the claim. Any help in this front
would be helpful for me to deal with them.

This is not true. Then there is no use of having a insurance body and policy. Its always have to be MUTUAL decision. And that why a third party - surveyor is involved.

Which insurance company is this?

Also, these insurance companies will drag it to make sure you become exhausted. And for everyday you lose, you need to pay parking charge in service station if you are not repairing.

I would say, take a day off, meet there superiors, sit and talk with them.

Tell him the terms of total loss and ask them why they can push for total loss or cash loss, when "their" portion of repair bill will be only half of the 75% value.

If you are really in a need to get it repaired, then ask them to get a 2nd surveyor. If not, you can also escalate it to IRDA. Us the name, and see their reaction.

If possible, collect information from them on mail. Send a mail to their office with your explanation of what is total loss, and how much is it, and why they are urging to make it cash loss. With the answers from them on mail, would help.

[DukeSan27]

Originally Posted by mjothi

...

When they say they will give you 13K and the car, it means its cash loss. So, they are escaping from their liability by just paying 13K.

If their liability is 40K, then how can it be a total loss. To make it a total loss, their liability should be more than 90K. And no way, its going to be more than that for this repair.
...

mjothi, this seems to be a perfect argument.

Can the vehicle be reapired at a another garage without the Insurers consent? In which case the insured pays up to the garage and claims later on from the Insurer. Anyway in this case the max he getting from the company is only 13k, so might as well bear that for now from personal pocket and file for a bigger claim on actual basis after the repairs done, and fight that out later. Added benifit is that vehicle is not longer held up.

[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by mjothi

Total Loss - If the cost to the insurance company exceeds the 75% of IDV, then they call it a total loss...
...
Which insurance company is this?
...

@mjothi - thanks again for putting some light on rules around total loss vs. partial loss, I have written mail to them, and asked for mail response. Till today they were only taking on telephone. Not sure if they will respond on time. If they delay I will escalate to their corporate people and IRDA.

Its Royal Sundaram via Maruti Insurance.

[Furebo]

Hey buddy,

Very sorry to hear about this incident. It is very important for you to understand that such things happen. Hats off to your patience and deliberation. Coming back to the topic, I completely understand the attachment you have but trust me a repaired car is never the same.

All of these things are going so smoothly for you. A 5 year old car is anyways due for replacement. You my friend can consider yourself lucky and get the IDV.

Don't worry too much about the interest rates 1-2% here or there wont make much of a difference.

My Advice: Get the IDV/compensation.Go for the new K10. MOVE ON.

[W.A.G.7]

I think the body shell structure has been compromised. Is it practical to hang on to the car just because of emotional attachment? I don't think so. Repairs could be done, but it will be risky to take the car out on a highway. What about the resale value of the vehicle? At the time of selling this damage is bound to show up somewhere which will cause problems for your friend.

Maybe the below suggestion is a good idea?

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

Take the car to a wheel alignment shop and find out how much off the readings are. It would help greatly if you have the most recent alignment values of the car. If the readings are off by more than 5 percent then the best option is to sell the car.

Emotions tend to mess up with our practical thoughts big time. Since the vehicle has already done 5yrs & 31000kms, it is not really "new" in the sense. Keeping aside a few emotions, I think your friend should really consider getting it declared as a total loss; and get a new vehicle.

[drpullockaran]

I should have qualified that statement about wheel alignment by adding that what we should look out for is the Castor values. Camber and Toe values usually go off the mark after some spirited driving in pot holed roads but the castor values should not vary by much even after a lakh kilometers and plus because that is built into the sub frame and the chassis in most cars especially the recent ones and specially those which are blessed with good handling.

[kutlee]

given the high interest rates for new cars and this car can serve some more good time, better get evaluated independently by other competent workshops. I am sure they would be glad to help you with a quote. given the close space, i don't think the other car would have picked up enough speed to cause some severe structural damage + your car would have been on hand brakes already. So frontal damage could be repairable. Suggestion is get an idea of how much damage, how many replacements and reach a settlement even if keeping the insurance out!

[anujmishra]

@Furebo & @W.A.G.7 - I know, emotion is playing hard in this. But just by seeing, it doesn't look like throw able car. If what 'drpullockaran' mentioned turns out to be true after repair, I would be learning the hard way. But that's how life is for all of us. Till past 5 years I was able to save my car on road from accident, so life taught that accident can happen even if parked safely. I am just hoping for fair insurance claim and good work from Sai Colorium.