[anujmishra]

PS: Below text I am posting on behalf of my Friend, whose Alto is damaged by some other car owner while it was parked in a Bangalore city shopping Mall. His TBHP account is yet to get approved by Moderators.
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My car met with an accident while being parked in a shopping mall. A young man, who recently bought his new car (spark) pressed full accelerator instead of brake while behind my car. It bumped directly into right side back of my car damaging rear bumper as well as dickey floor and door. My car moved ahead and hit the wall in front, which also caused fold in RH apron and front bumper. RH fender also got folded. We were not inside the car so escaped.

The person accepted his mistake and agreed to pay the repair cost beyond insurance liability plus any loss of NCB. We went to nearest M.A.S.S and enquired about rough estimate from SA. The SA told us around 80K unless there is any mechanical damage, which they said, will be known after opening the parts. So I asked them to get more detailed estimate. They said it will take few hours, so we waited 1.5 hrs and they came with 4 sheet estimate of 1.1L. It was a surprise for me and the person who hit the car started counting his part.

Well not a very happy situation but we enquired again with SA if it will really come this much, so he said it may come less may be 80K but it can go more as well. Assuming/hoping 80K as actual cost we went ahead with the insurance claim, thinking at least 50% (my car is 5 yrs old, 30K, Also LX) they can bear and remaining on us. Their surveyor came and came up with around 80K repair cost as well; with around 35-40K their liability. But they came with totally new option (for me) of settlement i.e. total loss. The car IDV is 1.23L and they decided to sell my car for 1.1L (yes they found some second hand car buyer, who is ready to pay 1.1L) and remaining 13K from their pocket. Giving me reasoning that if we repair our liability will be around 40K where as if we go for total loss it will be 13K. So as per their cost-benefit analysis it will be settled as total loss. Well not a happy situation again.


So, I further enquired about what is the rule of determining total loss vs. partial loss. And they said it’s at company discretion. I requested them to share the policy terms and conditions and they did share it with me. I am not a lawyer but with my understanding of English I inferred the rule as follows:
If the cost of repair is more than 75% of IDV it’s a total loss, else its partial loss.
a. In case of total loss company will pay the IDV less the salvage value.
b. In case of partial loss, company will pay the cost of repair less depreciation.
Above is what I have inferred and it’s not the exact text from their policy pdf. I tried explaining it but they were not accepting and insisting that its companies will to decide for total loss or partial loss, whichever is cheap for them. Not happy with all this and feeling helpless, I decided to take help from experts around. I think my car is repairable and want my car to be repaired. Though >90% of near and dear one advised me to get the IDV and some money from person who did accident and do away with this car in lieu of new car. I personally don’t feel like it’s a throw away car and still thinking if this can get repaired.

So suggestion from experts around:
1. Is it really a case of total loss? Can’t I go for repair based settlement?
2. Will there be so many issues after repair, as many near and dear one are telling.
3. If it’s repairable, then how to deal with insurance company? If they insist on total loss.

Other option they gave is to take 13K (IDV – salvage value) and get it repaired at your cost.
I am attaching images, I would be obliged if I get some opinion and what shall

I do in this case. There is some emotional factor as well; else I could have gone ahead as per insurance company wish.

[anujmishra]

No reply yet. My friend needs your immediate suggestion for his next course of action.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

No reply yet. My friend needs your immediate suggestion for his next course of action.

Certainly an expenditure that i could assess worth 50K, but not beyond that.

Big time M.A.S.C do have a tendency to quote exorbitantly, but i think your friend can go to a smaller Authorised shop and get it repaired at lower cost.

An insurance money of say 35k and the rest from pocket would be more than enough to get this car back on road Healthy.

[condor]

Any reasons to consider taking 13k, and getting it repaired outside ? Even if the repair bill outside was 50k, it will be 37k out of pocket.

Is your friend averse to a new car at this time ? Also, did you get an estimate from any one else ? (other than M.A.S.S).

If car is still first hand, then do consider repairs. If your friend is the second owner, then I will suggest to consider selling it.

[mayankjha1806]

Is the car movable/derivable if yes checking with Carnation in Marathalli would be a good idea. I usually give my Baleno to them and found them to be cheaper than the M.A.S.S and better in terms of quality and advise. They usually don't advise "Replace everything" types and see if something can be repaired instead. If you need their contact PM me i will send you my regular SA's number.

PS: BTW how old is the car and how many Kms on the odo? It might be a better idea to replace it if it has served its life. Just a thought.

[SushilBajpai]

Take Rs 13,000 from insurance and remaining 67,000 from the person who caused the accident.

On the other hand if you get Rs 67,000 from the gentleman and Rs 1.23 lakh from the insurance + sale of the car, you would have Rs 1,90,000.

This could contribute towards new car. There are several attractive options you could exercise for Rs 1,00,000. Think about it.

[julupani]

Even though the car hasn't run much, it is 5 years old now. Also, I think the high estimates are largely due to suspicion of structural damage to the chassis. So you might get away with slightly less than what the estimates say.

But I think you should seriously consider getting rid of the car, especially if you were thinking of getting a new car in the next year or so. If you wanted to keep the car for a decent amount of time more, then you can consider the repair.

I think the yardstick for the decision should be, how much longer would you want to keep this car. Also remember here that you may get more money for getting rid of the car in this situation than finding somebody to sell this car a year or two from now after having repaired it.

[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Certainly an expenditure that i could assess worth 50K, but not beyond that...

Even I said same thing. MASS these day giving exorbitant quotation for accident repair due to Insurance and A.S.S nexus.

Originally Posted by condor

Any reasons to consider taking 13k, and getting it repaired outside ? Even if the repair bill outside was 50k, it will be 37k out of pocket...

I will confirm with my friend regarding 13K and post here. He do not want to go for new car as of now due to increased rate of interest for new car. This car is first hand and had ran for 31K Kms.

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

Is the car movable/derivable if yes checking with Carnation in Marathalli...

PS: BTW how old is the car and how many Kms on the odo? It might be a better idea to replace it if it has served its life. Just a thought.

It is good suggestion to go repair outside for 5 year old car. He just put out replacement as interest rates are all time high.

Originally Posted by SushilBajpai

Take Rs 13,000 from insurance and remaining 67,000 from the person who caused the accident.

He has got some amount from the person who did damage to stationary car. Still he want to see value of repairing and spending on 5 year old car.

Originally Posted by julupani

Even though the car hasn't run much, it is 5 years old now. Also, I think the high estimates are largely due to suspicion of structural damage to the chassis. So you might get away with slightly less than what the estimates say.

He certainly wanted to go for new car. But all of sudden such incident happened also at present there is high rate of interest. If he does repair outside then certainly he will get quotes less than MASS.

If repaired he want to drive it for another year or so.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

He certainly wanted to go for new car. But all of sudden such incident happened also at present there is high rate of interest. If he does repair outside then certainly he will get quotes less than MASS.

If repaired he want to drive it for another year or so.

If he wanted a new car, I dont think it is very wise to be spending so much on repair. Might as well take the insurance money for a total loss, get some amount out of the guy for certain repairs, and then put all that into a good size down payment for a new car.

I am not sure, financial experts may comment, but rate of interest are not going to be much lower a year from now than what they are now.

Also consider the fact that, at this point of time you will get close to 1.5lakhs (insurance write off + money from the Spark owner) to get rid of this car. Lets say you spend even an extremely conservative 20thousand rupees on repair. My question is, in one year's time, will you get 1.7lakh rupees out of a 6 year old Alto, with prior accident damage and 35k on the odo. You will be lucky if you get half of that.

Thus whatever money you may lose on the higher interest may be well compensated by the higher price for the Alto you are getiing now.

If it was me, as the insurance people are already suggesting total write off from their side, I would jump at the chance.

[DukeSan27]

Originally Posted by julupani

If it was me, as the insurance people are already suggesting total write off from their side, I would jump at the chance.

Before doing this also learn about the tactics the insurance companies employ in such cases.

Just google for "IDV total loss" and you will find an interesting discussion on another forum. Its a sad state of affairs when dealing with insurance companies.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by DukeSan27

Before doing this also learn about the tactics the insurance companies employ in such cases.

Just google for "IDV total loss" and you will find an interesting discussion on another forum. Its a sad state of affairs when dealing with insurance companies.

I dont really care what kind of tactics the Insurance company employs. I dont care if they make a million bucks out of the deal. The points is I am getting 1.23lakh rupees out of a 5year old Alto, without having to so much as put up an ad for selling it. Now that for me is a sweet enough deal to be eating it. This case has the added advantage of getting something out of the person who caused the accident.

[vina]

Originally Posted by julupani

Also consider the fact that, at this point of time you will get close to 1.5lakhs (insurance write off + money from the Spark owner) to get rid of this car. Lets say you spend even an extremely conservative 20thousand rupees on repair. My question is, in one year's time, will you get 1.7lakh rupees out of a 6 year old Alto, with prior accident damage and 35k on the odo. You will be lucky if you get half of that.

I don't think the damage here is the kind we talk about when we say "accident damage" - it is very unlikely that there is any structural damage at all.

I think the MASS + insurance + dealer have ganged up against our friend to fleece him on account of his misfortune.

MASS overstated the extent of damage to scare him as well as cause the "total loss" clause to trigger, the second hand buyer is underbidding (car wale has 2007 Alto going for 2.4L) and the insurance assessor is obviously on the take.

My suggestion:

1. Get the insurance guys to pay the 13k
2. Get the car repaired outside - take the difference between 13k and the repairs from the Spark guy. Try to get a little more - tell him that value of your car has gone down thanks to the accident.
3. Drive it if you want for some more time, OR sell it with patience (i.e. wait till you get a good offer)

I think your friend will save more this way.

[condor]

vina : I think the MASS + insurance + dealer have ganged up against our friend to fleece him on account of his misfortune.

Over quoting in the estimate is standard practice, and they do it often to set customer's expectations. Customers are prone to shout & bad-mouth dealers if the estimate was lower & actual bill higher.

The final bill should be closer to the estimate Pavan gave.

vina :

1. Get the insurance guys to pay the 13k
2. Get the car repaired outside - take the difference between 13k and the repairs from the Spark guy.

+1

Considering that the car has run only 31k and is first hand, your friend can hold on to the car. Get the repairs done outside, but make sure all parts are MGP. You can get the parts from the spares dealer, like the one near Urvashi theater (Siddaiah road).

One disadvantage of going for a new car is the loss of NCB will be on the higher side since the insurance on a new car will be more.

[dhanushs]

I'll give you a suggestion based on experience. You have two options.

1. Make it a total loss, get the IDV from the insurance (1.23lacs) , get some compensation from the spark guy (~30k-40k), and get yourself a similar non-accidental Alto.

2. Go to a dedicated body shop and repair the car. The damages are purely cosmetic and can be easily repaired. The quote M.A.S.S gave is for replacing all the panels. Here as-per-photos, only the hatch needs replacement. Also the painting charge in A.S.S is literally double and quality is literally half when compared to a dedicated body shop.

The benefit of repairing the car at a dedicated body shop is that, apart from the rear hatch, all panels can be repaired and hence you can get 100% insurance claim, as it will be categorized as labor, which is 100% refundable irrespective of age of the car. You also get better quality finish.

IMO, if you get it repaired, the amount you have to spend will be. 50% rear hatch, 50% rear bumper, 50%front bumper, may be 50% rear quarter panel + 500Rs claim charges. Is the tail lamp/headlamp broken?. If so that 50% of that too. Rest 100% should be borne by the iinsurance, as the amount they shell out will nowhere reach 70-80% of IDV (~80k), if done at a dedicated body shop.

[condor]

Also, you can still get insurance at third party body shops. You dont necessarily have to pay out of your pocket.

NCB will be hit, though. Your next insurance will start at 0% NCB.